Official Harrop TVS1740 Supercharger Thread

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

What did you use to log timing?

BT Tool - Even though the parameters are very extensive (pretty much any CAN channel is capable of being data logged), the logging rate is very slow. I'm trying to find an off-the-shelf alternative that gives me the same channel list, but 3-4x the logging frequency.

The sample below is using MegaLogViewer (freeware) to view/analyze the BT Tool data logs (exported as .csv).

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Thanks for posting M. Hagen

What's interesting is your AFR does not drop below 12:1 and stays quite steady, mine goes dips under 12:1 from 4k and then falls off a cliff after 5k and goes into high 10s. This is what I predicted since seeing my AFR readings, you have just confirmed it.

One key variable difference on my setup is that I'm only seeing observed 3-3.5 psi. Due to my elevation and generally low humidity, my Density Altitude is around 5000-5500 ft most days, except maybe spring/fall mornings I might get DA of around 4000 ft.

Based on where that observed boost is in the fueling map, it does not need to be as rich as 6 - 6.5 psi.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by M.Hagen

One key variable difference on my setup is that

Based on where that observed boost is in the fueling map, it does not need to be as rich as 6 - 6.5 psi.

Your right there would be less fuel required as less boost but ratio should remain the same? Being around the 12:1 regardless of psi ?

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Your right there would be less fuel required as less boost but ratio should remain the same? Being around the 12:1 regardless of psi ?

AFR is load dependent, so less boost allows for a leaner mixture.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by M.Hagen

The sample below is using MegaLogViewer (freeware) to view/analyze the BT Tool data logs (exported as .csv).

Have you tried uploading them to https://datazap.me/
It's a great online data log analysis tool, which means you can share them as well.

[ashtaron14]

What gear are you guys using to pull on the Dyno?

Is it 5th for 6MT & 6th for DCT?

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by ashtaron14

What gear are you guys using to pull on the Dyno?

Is it 5th for 6MT & 6th for DCT?

1:1 is 5th for dct

[XIX]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

1:1 is 5th for dct

7th is 1:1

BMW M3 DCT
Gear / Ratio / Max Speed / RPM drop on upshift
1st 4.780 44
2nd 2.933 71 5200
3rd 2.153 97 6200
4th 1.678 124 6500
5th 1.390 150 6900
6th 1.203 173 7300
7th 1.000 208 7000
Final Ratio 3.154
Redline 8400

BMW M3 6-speed
Gear / Ratio / Max Speed / RPM drop on upshift
1st 4.055 44
2nd 2.396 75 4900
3rd 1.582 113 5600
4th 1.192 150 6300
5th 1.000 179 7000
6th 0.872 205 7300
Final Ratio 3.678
Redline 8400

[Bakerboy]

Mine was tested in 4th gear and dct, bad idea??

[Boostin FD]

How much are these kits... and where does one get it?

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Have you tried uploading them to https://datazap.me/
It's a great online data log analysis tool, which means you can share them as well.

Man... that is awesome! Thanks for the link.

Here is the ignition drop I was describing earlier using the datazap viewer:
https://datazap.me/u/marshmph/harrop...om=50-109&hg=1

[ashtaron14]

Today I went to a new Dyno place that opened in March. This is one of those Truth Dynos that cannot be tempered with. With simulated wind and diffuser.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by ashtaron14

Today I went to a new Dyno place that opened in March. This is one of those Truth Dynos that cannot be tempered with. With simulated wind and diffuser.

Very similar to the output mine did.

do you have an AFR graph?

[BPMSport]

Hey everyone - good to see some activity in this thread. A few more Harrop kits went to more happy homes. Will reply next week to a few of these posts with some additional information, playing catch up at the moment. Have a great weekend!

[ashtaron14]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Very similar to the output mine did.

do you have an AFR graph?

I didn't pay to get any form of data logging so this is all the basic information they provide for their Power Runs

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

Hey everyone - good to see some activity in this thread. A few more Harrop kits went to more happy homes. Will reply next week to a few of these posts with some additional information, playing catch up at the moment. Have a great weekend!

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by M3Post

I have over 25,000 miles on my Harrop kit, and mine also developed the small leak on the thermostat housing you mentioned above.

I plan on doing some routine maintenance in the next week or two (S/C belt, S/C tensioner, spark plugs, coolant flush, diff fluid, etc), and will take off my Thermostat Housing to see if I can figure out a leak path.

Has anyone who also sees the coolant leak around the thermostat housing found a source or fixed the issue? BMW parts diagrams do not show a gasket/seal between the thermostat housing and the block, so my guess is the extra load on that aluminum housing from the S/C mount is causing the leak. I was going to take it off, clean it well, and install a small bead of 'Form In Place Gasket'.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by M.Hagen

Has anyone who also sees the coolant leak around the thermostat housing found a source or fixed the issue? BMW parts diagrams do not show a gasket/seal between the thermostat housing and the block, so my guess is the extra load on that aluminum housing from the S/C mount is causing the leak. I was going to take it off, clean it well, and install a small bead of 'Form In Place Gasket'.

A supercharger won't stress a block enough to cause leaks. There is a molded rubber seal around the thermostat that seals the thermostat housing to the block. It's not sold separately, only with the thermostat so it's not shown in the drawings. The surfaces where this gasket sits is also known to corrode severely which can hamper the seal quality. Easy enough to carefully fix with a sanding block. The coolant transfer pipes on the back of the thermostat housing also have 4 o-rings that are often overlooked and should be replaced at the same time.

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

A supercharger won't stress a block enough to cause leaks. There is a molded rubber seal around the thermostat that seals the thermostat housing to the block. It's not sold separately, only with the thermostat so it's not shown in the drawings. The surfaces where this gasket sits is also known to corrode severely which can hamper the seal quality. Easy enough to carefully fix with a sanding block. The coolant transfer pipes on the back of the thermostat housing also have 4 o-rings that are often overlooked and should be replaced at the same time.

Response is very much appreciated. I'll buy a set of those O-rings just to be safe.

The S/C itself isn't stressing the block (as in a torque-moment), but the front/main support mount for the Harrop Supercharger attaches to the Thermostat Housing using longer bolts. Photo of mount on top of Thermostat Housing shown below.

[8500RPM]

Where the hell is stage 2?!?!?!

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

Where the hell is stage 2?!?!?!

2 weeks!!!

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by M.Hagen

It seems everyone's graphs have the same dip after 5500 RPM that I do.

Reviewing logs it appears the main correlating parameter is the ignition timing. It has a big surge of timing between 4000 and 5500 RPM, then dives off a cliff.

It appears the tune is very conservative after 5500 RPM, which an off-the-shelf tune should be. But that also means there is plenty of room for increasing >5500 RPM power if you have the octane to support.

This graph is with 30% ethanol, so ignition should be running w/o knock retard.

(I am 100% stock minus the Harrop TVS1740, K&N Filter and Megan rear section)

The timing is ultra conservative in the software, and the fueling is also pretty rich. There is definitely more to be had on top, particularly after 5,500. Given that we needed this kit to withstand repeated abuse on very long and challenging tracks such as the Nürburgring, we kept the software very safe.

We've got the larger stage II injectors calibrated for the most part on our car here in the US - just need to have the pulleys changed and get her back on the dyno. In Australia, the Harrop M3 is supposed to receive a standalone to aid in fine tuning that can be ported back over to those running the stock DME. I will have to check on the progress of this. I've been toying with the idea of emulating the stock ECU for live tuning which would make this process significantly easier and more effective, but there are some limitations there as well. Marshall - I still need to look at your logs, by next week without a doubt. Please ping me with a reminder. We just moved offices so are getting back into the swing of things.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by XIX

7th is 1:1

BMW M3 DCT
Gear / Ratio / Max Speed / RPM drop on upshift
1st 4.780 44
2nd 2.933 71 5200
3rd 2.153 97 6200
4th 1.678 124 6500
5th 1.390 150 6900
6th 1.203 173 7300
7th 1.000 208 7000
Final Ratio 3.154
Redline 8400

BMW M3 6-speed
Gear / Ratio / Max Speed / RPM drop on upshift
1st 4.055 44
2nd 2.396 75 4900
3rd 1.582 113 5600
4th 1.192 150 6300
5th 1.000 179 7000
6th 0.872 205 7300
Final Ratio 3.678
Redline 8400

The final drive for the 6mt is 3.85:1.