My thoughts after driving the F80 and E90 M3 back-to-back

[KPop]

Originally Posted by JRV-E92-M3

Kpop, welcome, and great handle...Kpop rules. I am hopelessly in love with Jiyeon. I also love Soelhyun, and my new fav is Jei from Fiestar. Love Tara, GG and AOA.

Oh yeah, and I also love my E92 M3.

Thanks! Funny thing is I actually don't know that much about Kpop, but I am heading to South Korea next week for vacation and will be taking my GoPro. Apparently car culture is pretty staid over there, but I'll see if I can find some car enthusiasts to interview for the podcast.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by KPop

To your point, it's more engaging and "emotional" when I have the challenge of ripping off smooth rev-matched downshifts every time I approach a corner. To me, that's a large part of the fun equation with driving.

Correcting myself Z4M not z4. Fast roadsters have this addictive Go Kart feel that a midsize sport car cannot duplicate unless it's gutted and has reinforcement bars, suspension mods, but as some other member said , you'll find the M3 continues to be composed and predictable while oversteering. I'm not sure the Z4M is as graceful when you get to the limits of rear traction.

I'll talk next as if to myself when i was new to the E92 M3 6MT on what i didn't know then. Rev-matched downshifts is the entry ticket but you really have to get to the next level which is heel-and-toe (although in this instance it's about using the right side edge of your right foot, not the heel, to action the throttle while you are already on the brake, clutching at same time too). Only then, and only then, can one extract power of the S65 effortlessly (and with better selectivity than dual clutch unless set to sport). And you will never be caught off-guard by some "van". The E92 M3 is the perfect car to learn that technique (Z4M too, but more useful on the M3). It's not just a track skill, it is beneficial in daily routine driving and can be done without your non-enthusiast passenger(s) even noticing once you master it. May not be required for the Z4M engine but the S65 linear torque curve racing engine demands it.

One more thing, E92 M3 has adaptative ECU, and engine power delivery can be different on a given day depending how it was driven in the past esp if you leave it in non M mode, it can run over rich which deprives you from nominal power delivery short of nailing it. I never drive without POWER button ON. mpg is actually the same for same driving style.

The rod bearings issue was largely exaggerated on this forum. It affects no more than less than 1 percent of cars. Besides there is now a solution that has proved itself on multiple cars. Post swap inspections after 20k proved that eliminates any visible signs of bearing wear. That is Callico coated bearing, WPC. You could get a set and swap those if you wanted absolute peace of mind, but i don't think it's necessary, it would be redundant cost if you already have a good insurance.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Post swap inspections after 20k proved that eliminates any visible signs of bearing wear. That is Callico coated bearing, WPC. .

I've been looking for this information. Do you happen to have the thread handy where before-after pics are posted?

[R3dliner]

I test drove the F82 before I bought my E92(7 months of ownership) and to me the F82 interior was better imo but it was only that. I expected a M car to have more. Sure it's fast and end of day it's not all about speed. It's also not a drivers car. I didn't feel very engaged.
Maybe I was disappointed because I've driven e92,s in the past only to walk out with a big smile on my face. Still to this day after 7 months it puts a big fat smile on my face. Sometimes I drive just for the heck of that toxic engine note

[Three Pedal Steve]

The e90 M3 is such a unique sedan. Really, where you going to find another manual transmission four door with these capabilities?

Cadillac? Chevy? Hellcat Charger? - if you can find happiness in this group, the M3 is not for you.

Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Lexus, Infiniti - no manual in performance four door sedan.

To find a car comparable to the e90 M3 you would have to go back to the e39 M5.

[KPop]

Originally Posted by Three Pedal Steve

The e90 M3 is such a unique sedan. Really, where you going to find another manual transmission four door with these capabilities?

Cadillac? Chevy? Hellcat Charger? - if you can find happiness in this group, the M3 is not for you.

Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Lexus, Infiniti - no manual in performance four door sedan.

To find a car comparable to the e90 M3 you would have to go back to the e39 M5.

The 2015+ Chevy SS still comes with a 6-speed manual and a 6.2L LS3 V8 up front. Too bad it looks like a dressed up Malibu, but still not a bad car - it's got good bones and is properly quick around a track for what it is - a full size big sedan.

You're right in that most of the premium / luxury automakers don't offer a performance sedan with a 6-speed manual anymore and that kind of makes me sad. If I'm not mistaken, even the new Cadillac CTS-V sedan only comes in an 8-speed automatic...

Given that, I've pretty much decided on either an E90 M3 6MT or a B7 RS4, also 6MT, though leaning more towards the M3 because it's an M3.

I also really appreciate the insight and feedback from the m3post community as both a diehard car enthusiast and a consumer, so that's part of the reason why I'm leaning the direction I am.

[aus]

Nice job on the vid and review.

There are only a couple hundred 2008 E90 M3's out there- most were DCT, so you have a bit of a rare bird there. To get the "hand of God push in the back" on the E9x M3, you really need to be on track in 3rd gear from 5,000 RPM to 8,300 RPM. It just keeps pulling and pulling.

Just a thought on the iDrive. I have a 2009 E92 M3 without iDrive, and now have a 2011.5 with iDrive, BMWapps and love it. Spotify/Pandora integration is a must for long drives to the track. Being able to read txt on the screen is also HUGE. You're eyes are still up and only distracted for a second vs. picking up a phone and looking down. There's also the //M-Lap timer and GoPro control. Even the nav is useful, though it was way better when I had BMW Assist so I could send destinations to the car from the phone.

PS: I hope you did the VANOS fix on that S54. Great engine once that's done.
.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by Three Pedal Steve

The e90 M3 is such a unique sedan. Really, where you going to find another manual transmission four door with these capabilities?

Cadillac? Chevy? Hellcat Charger? - if you can find happiness in this group, the M3 is not for you.

Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Lexus, Infiniti - no manual in performance four door sedan.

To find a car comparable to the e90 M3 you would have to go back to the e39 M5.

Dunno if I'd dismiss the ATS-V. Sure the engine doesn't have much character, but by all accounts it's a serious and engaging car. Also, you can get a manual with the old RS4, if you want an AWD alternative.

Agree on the other points, though. I will say after owning an E39 M5 for 6.5yrs (actually, the exact exampl used in Motor Trend's recent Chevy SS video!) and E90 M3 for just two months, they feel pretty different to drive. M5 has much more anytime, any rpm punch and a comfier ride, while the M3 feels a lot more aggressive in general. As much as I adored the M5, I'm loving the M3 even more for its extra chops in the handling department.

[RickP]

DAT V8.

[KPop]

Originally Posted by aus

Nice job on the vid and review.

There are only a couple hundred 2008 E90 M3's out there- most were DCT, so you have a bit of a rare bird there. To get the "hand of God push in the back" on the E9x M3, you really need to be on track in 3rd gear from 5,000 RPM to 8,300 RPM. It just keeps pulling and pulling.

Just a thought on the iDrive. I have a 2009 E92 M3 without iDrive, and now have a 2011.5 with iDrive, BMWapps and love it. Spotify/Pandora integration is a must for long drives to the track. Being able to read txt on the screen is also HUGE. You're eyes are still up and only distracted for a second vs. picking up a phone and looking down. There's also the //M-Lap timer and GoPro control. Even the nav is useful, though it was way better when I had BMW Assist so I could send destinations to the car from the phone.

PS: I hope you did the VANOS fix on that S54. Great engine once that's done.
.

Thanks! It's certainly far from the best video out there on the M3, but hopefully it captured a raw, unscripted moment in my car decision making process.

It's funny with the powerband I often feel conflicted. While I love working these N/A M engines in the upper registers of the tach, you also sometimes feel like a maniac when you're just driving around town and not on a track or some fun back road. That's about the only time when I miss the torque of a larger displacement V8 or forced induction.

I've heard rumors (correct me if I'm wrong) that the 2008 M3's used a different clutch or flywheel design from the later MYs and that makes it more expensive to replace. My ideal M3 would be a bare-bones 2010-2012 E90 w/ 6MT and no Nav or iDrive and brushed aluminum with black leather interior.

[JRV]

Originally Posted by JRV-E92-M3

Kpop, welcome, and great handle...Kpop rules. I am hopelessly in love with Jiyeon. I also love Soelhyun, and my new fav is Jei from Fiestar. Love Tara, GG and AOA.

Oh yeah, and I also love my E92 M3.

I need to append E90-M3 to my name

[aus]

E90 M3 + manual = very limited number available.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by aus

Nice job on the vid and review.

There are only a couple hundred 2008 E90 M3's out there- most were DCT, so you have a bit of a rare bird there. To get the "hand of God push in the back" on the E9x M3, you really need to be on track in 3rd gear from 5,000 RPM to 8,300 RPM. It just keeps pulling and pulling.

Just a thought on the iDrive. I have a 2009 E92 M3 without iDrive, and now have a 2011.5 with iDrive, BMWapps and love it. Spotify/Pandora integration is a must for long drives to the track. Being able to read txt on the screen is also HUGE. You're eyes are still up and only distracted for a second vs. picking up a phone and looking down. There's also the //M-Lap timer and GoPro control. Even the nav is useful, though it was way better when I had BMW Assist so I could send destinations to the car from the phone.

PS: I hope you did the VANOS fix on that S54. Great engine once that's done.
.

Fully optioned 2013 E92 M3 here. what.. is that you are talking about .. ? BMWapps, ///M-lap timer and GoPro control on idrive ? i have none of that, can you actually install new software on the car Idrive ?

[Rajmun340]

I forgot to tell you Korean Pop, i'm 6'3" too and the seat is the worst for tall people. It's shaped like a "C". it's perfect for shorter people the top part of the "C" hugs them just above the shoulders but at 6'3" it hits you right in the high back and forces you to crook your back. If you don't crook (which will give you back pain) it leaves a large part portion of your back unsupported. I'll say comfort is compromised by ~-40% for tall people. It's not the kind of thing you notice easily during a testdrive, i testdrove 4 M3 and didn't realize it until 2 weeks of ownership. Trust me i played with the seat servomotors adjustment for years, it does not help. The basic shape of the seat is the problem for tall people. I do a lot of physical exercise and i have never had any back problems but this is something to consider if you intend to drive the car daily. For me it's a weekend garage queen, i daily drive an Audi much better seat, so i can live with it.

I get the impression you are looking a knock off price. That's a bad gamble IMO. I would much rather buy a car model in the best condition possible that i can afford than to try to snatch a no option M3 that's been through 3 owners. Down the road, M3 parts aren't cheap. I had to wait 1 month 2 weeks for a suspension part from the dealer under bmw factory warranty. Low inventory means high prices. I much prefer paying for a car in the best condition possible, than pay for expensive repairs later. Oh yeah, btw, the AC evaporator is a $2,000 job labor + part. The whole dashboard has to be removed takes 3 -4 hours.

[KPop]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

I forgot to tell you Korean Pop, i'm 6'3" too and the seat is the worst for tall people. It's shaped like a "C". it's perfect for shorter people the top part of the "C" hugs them just above the shoulders but at 6'3" it hits you right in the high back and forces you to crook your back. If you don't crook (which will give you back pain) it leaves a large part portion of your back unsupported. I'll say comfort is compromised by ~-40% for tall people. It's not the kind of thing you notice easily during a testdrive, i testdrove 4 M3 and didn't realize it until 2 weeks of ownership. Trust me i played with the seat servomotors adjustment for years, it does not help. The basic shape of the seat is the problem for tall people. I do a lot of physical exercise and i have never had any back problems but this is something to consider if you intend to drive the car daily. For me it's a weekend garage queen, i daily drive an Audi much better seat, so i can live with it.

I get the impression you are looking a knock off price. That's a bad gamble IMO. I would much rather buy a car model in the best condition possible that i can afford than to try to snatch a no option M3 that's been through 3 owners. Down the road, M3 parts aren't cheap. I had to wait 1 month 2 weeks for a suspension part from the dealer under bmw factory warranty. Low inventory means high prices. I much prefer paying for a car in the best condition possible, than pay for expensive repairs later. Oh yeah, btw, the AC evaporator is a $2,000 job labor + part. The whole dashboard has to be removed takes 3 -4 hours.

I'm sure I could find a comfortable seating position in the M3 if I spent more time behind the wheel. I've been able to fit comfortably in smaller cars (including the Z4M, S2000 and C7 Z06 Corvette) but it took some fiddling with the seat and steering wheel.

I'm also looking for the best example I can find and I'm pretty confident I'll do ok. I've got patience

[aus]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Fully optioned 2013 E92 M3 here. what.. is that you are talking about .. ? BMWapps, ///M-lap timer and GoPro control on idrive ? i have none of that, can you actually install new software on the car Idrive ?

As long as you have apps/office on your iDrive, you just need to have the app on your phone, and then open the app and plug in the phone. I have an iPhone, so I don't know if it works with Android.
.

[CSBM5]

I'm a bit over 6'2" and have no issues at all with the seat. In fact, I'm very comfortable in it, much more so than the one in my E39 M5. Also, I hunted for a year for my E90 (all of 2012, bought it in 02/2013) as I wanted a 2011 6MT without a sunroof for two main reasons - headroom is greatly improved, and I can wear a helmet without issue; it's 50lbs of dead weight at the highest point on the car; oh and a 3rd reason is I simply never use a sunroof. I've had the M5 for 14 years, and it may have been opened once in that time.

Anyway, it turned out I was hunting within a sample of only about 180 cars (2011 E90, 6MT, no sunroof); hence it took a long time to find a pristine low mileage one, and I had to give up on a color preference (ended up with SSII).

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by aus

As long as you have apps/office on your iDrive, you just need to have the app on your phone, and then open the app and plug in the phone. I have an iPhone, so I don't know if it works with Android.
.

Thanks. I have office but i don't remember seeing app on the iDrive. I'll give it a try.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I'm a bit over 6'2" and have no issues at all with the seat. In fact, I'm very comfortable in it, much more so than the one in my E39 M5. Also, I hunted for a year for my E90 (all of 2012, bought it in 02/2013) as I wanted a 2011 6MT without a sunroof for two main reasons - headroom is greatly improved, and I can wear a helmet without issue; it's 50lbs of dead weight at the highest point on the car; oh and a 3rd reason is I simply never use a sunroof. I've had the M5 for 14 years, and it may have been opened once in that time.

Anyway, it turned out I was hunting within a sample of only about 180 cars (2011 E90, 6MT, no sunroof); hence it took a long time to find a pristine low mileage one, and I had to give up on a color preference (ended up with SSII).

Tall yes, but it depends on the proportion of your back to your legs length. There is a maximum back length that this seat can accommodate. At 6'2" and an average or smaller back you might just fit in. Looking at people of different origins you'll notice some trend. Asians tend to have the biggest back/leg ratio (longer back to relatively shorter legs) though average height is shorter, africans have lowest back/leg ratio (head barely above steering wheel though height might be on the taller side), europeans are in between. Of course this is only the general trend, there are individual and country exceptions. Korea does have very tall people for example.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by KPop

I'm sure I could find a comfortable seating position in the M3 if I spent more time behind the wheel. I've been able to fit comfortably in smaller cars (including the Z4M, S2000 and C7 Z06 Corvette) but it took some fiddling with the seat and steering wheel.

I'm also looking for the best example I can find and I'm pretty confident I'll do ok. I've got patience

3 years of patience playing with the seat + steering wheel height. You've been warned.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Tall yes, but it depends on the proportion of your back to your legs length. There is a maximum back length that this seat can accommodate. At 6'2" and an average or smaller back you might just fit in. Looking at people of different origins you'll notice some trend. Asians tend to have the biggest back/leg ratio (longer back to relatively shorter legs) though average height is shorter, africans have lowest back/leg ratio (head barely above steering wheel though height might be on the taller side), europeans are in between. Of course this is only the general trend, there are individual and country exceptions. Korea does have very tall people for example.

I'll taller in the torso than legs a bit compared to average. I have wide shoulders and weigh 197. I think most people should obviously check out the seat for their specific needs. I love the M3 seat and E90 seating position -- much preferred to the E39 for me.