BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-11-2018, 09:06 AM   #947
vincE92M3
Major
vincE92M3's Avatar
United_States
442
Rep
1,343
Posts

Drives: ///M
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
'11 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincE92M3 View Post
Thanks! Pardon my ignorance, but what significance would that analysis provide?
TBN shows you reserve alkalinity (ability to neutralize acids), and TAN shows you how acidic the oil has become. You want to have those values to establish the proper change interval.
Thanks! Currently I'm changing it once a year, as I only put on 2,500 Miles last year.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 07:11 PM   #948
CarPoor
Enlisted Member
23
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 2011 Melbourne Red E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

LM Synthoil Race Tech GT1 10W-60 VOA

I was curious about the final viscosity of this oil versus the others given the too thick discussions.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 08:48 PM   #949
dparm
Major General
dparm's Avatar
United_States
1642
Rep
6,244
Posts

Drives: Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarPoor View Post
I was curious about the final viscosity of this oil versus the others given the too thick discussions.

Looks to be right in the middle for a 10w60 -- most are 23-25 cSt. TWS is 22.7 and the BMW (Shell) stuff is 23.2, for example. Starting TBN looks typical too.

I'm sure it will be fine.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 01:11 AM   #950
CarPoor
Enlisted Member
23
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 2011 Melbourne Red E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Looks to be right in the middle for a 10w60 -- most are 23-25 cSt. TWS is 22.7 and the BMW (Shell) stuff is 23.2, for example. Starting TBN looks typical too.

I'm sure it will be fine.
From what I’ve seen with the VOAs I’ve run and others have posted in years past this is only one of three that VOA’d in line with the TDS. Though I’m not asserting one is better than another this is interesting versus others coming in near 10% lighter than their TDS.

Would also be interesting to know more about what’s driving the high TAN.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 10:26 AM   #951
dparm
Major General
dparm's Avatar
United_States
1642
Rep
6,244
Posts

Drives: Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarPoor View Post
From what I’ve seen with the VOAs I’ve run and others have posted in years past this is only one of three that VOA’d in line with the TDS. Though I’m not asserting one is better than another this is interesting versus others coming in near 10% lighter than their TDS.

Would also be interesting to know more about what’s driving the high TAN.

Manufacturer data sheets are showing the typical values for that oil. There will always be manufacturing variances and we don't know what those are.

Blackstone's own testing has a margin of error, too.

I don't think that starting TAN is very high. I have seen plenty of VOAs come back with TAN of 4-5. Certain basestock types can cause elevation of TAN, if I remember correctly.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 05:38 PM   #952
CarPoor
Enlisted Member
23
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 2011 Melbourne Red E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Manufacturer data sheets are showing the typical values for that oil. There will always be manufacturing variances and we don't know what those are.

Blackstone's own testing has a margin of error, too.
While that is true, I think we are confusing material versus immaterial deviations. Approaching 10% is typically seen as material from my experience and we'd flag it, though I can't say for certain what the SAE or ASTM standards are.
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2018, 01:27 PM   #953
dparm
Major General
dparm's Avatar
United_States
1642
Rep
6,244
Posts

Drives: Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarPoor View Post
While that is true, I think we are confusing material versus immaterial deviations. Approaching 10% is typically seen as material from my experience and we'd flag it, though I can't say for certain what the SAE or ASTM standards are.

I agree that 10% is substantial. That's enough to push an oil out of grade, in some instances. It could also just be a perfect storm of variances: 5% on the blending side PLUS 5% on Blackstone's side. That seems unlikely but I wouldn't call it impossible.

Years ago, I had a VOA done for Eneos Sustina 0w50 and it came back WAY out of grade -- also about 10%. I was quite surprised by this and contacted Eneos directly. They replied back and said they'd look into it, but multiple follow-up emails went into a black hole and I never heard back.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2018, 05:17 PM   #954
tigermack
OPN DIFF
tigermack's Avatar
Hong Kong
96
Rep
1,446
Posts

Drives: 10' E90 M3 6MT LB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pacific Ocean

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to tigermack
New report.
Attached Images
 
__________________
SG LCI n54 - JB4 G5 w/ DCI/DP/AMS exhaust/VRSF 7' FMIC/ER CP w/ Tial BOV/BBS GT4/ST coils

Autocross vids https://www.youtube.com/user/tigermack
https://www.instagram.com/tigermack

Last edited by tigermack; 08-06-2018 at 05:47 PM.
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2018, 05:44 PM   #955
dparm
Major General
dparm's Avatar
United_States
1642
Rep
6,244
Posts

Drives: Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermack View Post
New report.
Aluminum up slightly, iron about the same, copper unchanged, lead down slightly = not too bad overall. Consistency is what we want, like Blackstone said. Viscosity still in grade, flashpoint okay, and no contaminants.

The TBN and TAN are equal which isn't really ideal, but I agree you should try a slightly longer interval and see if that causes TAN > TBN. Do you do a lot of short trips? What's your driving style?

I would consider this a good report and the start of a reassuring trend. The next report should be very telling.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2018, 08:46 PM   #956
tigermack
OPN DIFF
tigermack's Avatar
Hong Kong
96
Rep
1,446
Posts

Drives: 10' E90 M3 6MT LB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pacific Ocean

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to tigermack
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Aluminum up slightly, iron about the same, copper unchanged, lead down slightly = not too bad overall. Consistency is what we want, like Blackstone said. Viscosity still in grade, flashpoint okay, and no contaminants.

The TBN and TAN are equal which isn't really ideal, but I agree you should try a slightly longer interval and see if that causes TAN > TBN. Do you do a lot of short trips? What's your driving style?

I would consider this a good report and the start of a reassuring trend. The next report should be very telling.
Not that many short trips, minimum 10-15 mins when I drive. I sometimes go to store to store after that, does that matter? Most of my driving is on the weekend, I would take it to above 6-7k RPM occasionally like on freeway merges. I do autocross events as well, maybe once a month to two months in this car. I do plan to do the RB's at the next change, or should I try pushing it a little longer?
__________________
SG LCI n54 - JB4 G5 w/ DCI/DP/AMS exhaust/VRSF 7' FMIC/ER CP w/ Tial BOV/BBS GT4/ST coils

Autocross vids https://www.youtube.com/user/tigermack
https://www.instagram.com/tigermack
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2018, 12:06 PM   #957
dparm
Major General
dparm's Avatar
United_States
1642
Rep
6,244
Posts

Drives: Corvette Grand Sport
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermack View Post
Not that many short trips, minimum 10-15 mins when I drive. I sometimes go to store to store after that, does that matter? Most of my driving is on the weekend, I would take it to above 6-7k RPM occasionally like on freeway merges. I do autocross events as well, maybe once a month to two months in this car. I do plan to do the RB's at the next change, or should I try pushing it a little longer?

Just wanted to make sure this wasn't a car you drove 5 minutes to the train station every day, as that would cause the acid build-up (high TAN).

Why are you changing the rod bearings? Preventative maintenance?
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2018, 12:11 PM   #958
tigermack
OPN DIFF
tigermack's Avatar
Hong Kong
96
Rep
1,446
Posts

Drives: 10' E90 M3 6MT LB
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pacific Ocean

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to tigermack
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermack View Post
Not that many short trips, minimum 10-15 mins when I drive. I sometimes go to store to store after that, does that matter? Most of my driving is on the weekend, I would take it to above 6-7k RPM occasionally like on freeway merges. I do autocross events as well, maybe once a month to two months in this car. I do plan to do the RB's at the next change, or should I try pushing it a little longer?

Just wanted to make sure this wasn't a car you drove 5 minutes to the train station every day, as that would cause the acid build-up (high TAN).

Why are you changing the rod bearings? Preventative maintenance?
Yes, just to buy a peace of mind. What's your take on that?
__________________
SG LCI n54 - JB4 G5 w/ DCI/DP/AMS exhaust/VRSF 7' FMIC/ER CP w/ Tial BOV/BBS GT4/ST coils

Autocross vids https://www.youtube.com/user/tigermack
https://www.instagram.com/tigermack
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2018, 08:49 AM   #959
TigerTater
Private
TigerTater's Avatar
32
Rep
99
Posts

Drives: 2005 330i ZHP
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Baton Rouge

iTrader: (0)

My report...been trending since I picked up the car.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:00 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST