First magazine comparison between MT and DCT

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by swamp2

T Bone: The M-DCT tops out at just a bit over 170 mph in 6th. Although a bit odd and seemingly contradictory I agree with BMW using 7th for an economy gear. I think enigma and e36jakeo said it but M-DCT packs in better and closer ratios in 6 gears to what the MT does in 5 (top speed in MT in 5th is just shy of 170). You get better performance all the way up to this speed point. How often will you or anyone go faster? Using 7th as an overdrive gear is fine with me. Lastly although it takes a bit longer to get to Vmax the value of Vmax is almost identical.

I agree and great use of facts to really paint a clear picture. I am very pleased they were able to improve performance by tightening up the ratios while still giving me the choice to save gas if I am ona highway cruise by popping her into 7th. Nice job BMW.....nice job.

[Jack28]

Thanks for the Great info!

[Wads]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

You know thinking more about it 4.6 seconds for MDCT? The manual cannot shift as fast as the dual clutch even if done by the most skillful person.

4.2 seconds was the fastest done with a manual that we know of. How come they only got 4.6 with MDCT? Was launch control even used? Are the other factors that affect time that much working against the MDCT M3 in this case? And come to think about it. 0 - 60MPH in 4.8 seconds for the manual is not exactly a great run either. I guess I answered my own question. Nevermind...

I think we need more reviews on this.

Don't forget that the 4.2 sec best in the 6MT was actually 0-60mph while the 4.8sec in this test was 0-62mph that extra 2mph makes a difference (the best 0-62 I've seen is 4.5sec)..... admittedly 4.8 isn't great but how many average manual drivers can match the best magazine test results anyway?

[JIO]

13.8 L/100 km = 17.04 mpg

13.0 L/100 km = 18.09 mpg

That's about a 6.2% increase in gas mileage.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by JIO

13.8 L/100 km = 17.04 mpg

13.0 L/100 km = 18.09 mpg

That's about a 6.2% increase in gas mileage.

Assuming an ownership period of 4 years and 60,000 miles and a $4 / gallon fuel price....

• A 6MT consumes 3521 gallons of fuel
• A MDCT comsumes 3317 gallons of fuel
• A MDCT car saves 204 gallons of fuel
• A MDCT car saves $816 in fuel cost for the US

Fuel cost doesn't quite make up for the initial cost of the MDCT but then again who gives a crap.....

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Assuming an ownership period of 4 years and 60,000 miles and a $4 / gallon fuel price....

• A 6MT consumes 3521 gallons of fuel
• A MDCT comsumes 3317 gallons of fuel
• A MDCT car saves 204 gallons of fuel
• A MDCT car saves $816 in fuel cost for the US

Fuel cost doesn't quite make up for the initial cost of the MDCT but then again who gives a crap.....

There's a variable not being considered here:

....how the driver operates his/her vehicle.

A heavy foot is going to skew all of those figures.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There's a variable not being considered here:

....how the driver operates his/her vehicle.

A heavy foot is going to skew all of those figures.

That's why we have statistics. Individuals can do what they want but in general, people with MDCT will enjoy better performance and better fuel economy. But 6MT people get to "be in touch" with their cars.

[nechronics]

Thanks south - nice to see how much more the M3 is capable of compared to what's been tested and observed thusfar - We need more comparisons of DCT cars pitted against competitors.

In my mind though, I still couldn't sacrifice 6MT for such marginal differences - it's just half the experience for me. It would take no less than a GTR beating transformation to get me to make the switch I think. That is, until I'm bored and sick of the 6MT and have fully mastered it (never?).

[ruff]

Nice work South and Hammer.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by enigma

However, as you have seen here, the public perception is "torque matters" and you have people who think things like the 335 will be faster because it has more torque. Stupid, but true. However, the have to deal with this market reality.

I am tired of that false perception, and am ready to throw the towel on such comments...

The 0-200 kph time for DCT is looking good. I'll test drive a DCT car when things cool down, and if I like it, I might be back on the market in a couple of years unless some other manufacturer comes up with a lighter 400hp RWD car in the same price range in the meanwhile, which is unlikely.

[icemang17]

Very nice....... .2 better to 62mph....over a second to 200kmh..& .4 around a track along with 1mpg better....seems well worth it to me...keep in mind though the DCT does have 1 extra gear....so it does handicap the 6MT a bit

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by lucid

I am tired of that false perception, and am ready to throw the towel on such comments...

The 0-200 kph time for DCT is looking good. I'll test drive a DCT car when things cool down, and if I like it, I might be back on the market in a couple of years unless some other manufacturer comes up with a lighter 400hp RWD car in the same price range in the meanwhile, which is unlikely.

With the crackdown on tuning 335i by BMWs, the 335i is getting checked.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by T Bone

With the crackdown on tuning 335i by BMWs, the 335i is getting checked.

I saw that thread which showed evidence for boosted 335s going bust, but I didn't know BMW was cracking down on that.

[footie]

Originally Posted by lucid

I saw that thread which showed evidence for boosted 335s going bust, but I didn't know BMW was cracking down on that.

This is why when people talk about chipping a car or tuning it for little dosh I laugh, do they ever wonder why the like of Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc. charge so much for the hi-performance models. It's because they are tested to death to not only provide the power quoted but also prove to be reliable. The best example of over engineering I have ever seen is by Brabus....incredible.

Sure the manufacturers have a little leeway with what's achievable while still proving reliable but it's definitely not the extra 30+% power hike that some people are giving their 335i. Dicks or what, and the companies which are offering this are laughing all the way to the bank at their expense.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by lucid

I saw that thread which showed evidence for boosted 335s going bust, but I didn't know BMW was cracking down on that.

Got a link lucid? Are people grenading their motors now?

I know the Dinan chip carries a warranty. That's the route I'd go if I ever decided the wifey needs to get groceries quicker.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Got a link lucid? Are people grenading their motors now?

I know the Dinan chip carries a warranty. That's the route I'd go if I ever decided the wifey needs to get groceries quicker.

Mantis posted a link here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=130273&page=5

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by lucid

Mantis posted a link here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=130273&page=5

Thanks lucid - interesting read.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Got a link lucid? Are people grenading their motors now?

I know the Dinan chip carries a warranty. That's the route I'd go if I ever decided the wifey needs to get groceries quicker.

There are a few things going on in the 335i world

• BMW issued a SIB telling dealers to look for tunes and to remind them of the warranty policies against tuned cars
• With March 2008, BMW introduced a new DME called v.81 which no one can access or program including Dinan (althought the SSTT seems to work)
• v.81 is allegedly protected by 1024 bit RSA keys so going through the front door is unlikely
• BMW may have introduced a snoop mechanism to detect tuning devices like the Procede / JB with the v81 DME
• One car's turbo blew up, cause unknown, but it was running a V2 Procede. The speculation is a packing peanut was left in the aftermarket intake and destroyed the turbo when it got sucked in. BMW denied the warranty and the owner had to pay out of pocket
• Dinan completely readjusted their pricing strategy. The low end flash is $1600 and you don't need an oil cooler. You will be buying a Dinan Oil Cooler, Intercooler for a few more pounds of boost. $1600 to $5000... for a few more HP

A lot of speculation and conjecture but the direction is not good. So the M3 guys, I am sure, will remember all the 335i vs. M3 threads....

[arefog]

Does anyone here have any literature that shows the ratios for the 7-speed M-DCT transmission? Would be interesting to compare them to the 6-speed. On a similar note, is the final drive ratio the same with the two gearboxs? Thanks.

Dick Fogg

[enigma]

Originally Posted by arefog

Does anyone here have any literature that shows the ratios for the 7-speed M-DCT transmission? Would be interesting to compare them to the 6-speed. On a similar note, is the final drive ratio the same with the two gearboxs? Thanks.

Dick Fogg

yes, no

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by Supraman

DCT sucks balls

As I don't understand Americanish or streettalk, I have absolutely no idea whether this is a good or a bad thing.

I've only just got used to something which is cool, being called "sick".

You kids.

[arefog]

Originally Posted by enigma

yes, no

Let's see.... I could go with "that wasn't very helpful/nice" or I could say "gosh, the search function on this site is easy to use and really works!" Hmmmmmm. I'm gonna go with: "I did a search, found what I wanted, and should have done that before I asked." My delicate feelings are still bruised though.

Dick Fogg