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      12-23-2017, 05:22 PM   #1541
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Originally Posted by JoM3z View Post
I think this is a miss opportunity for BMW if they don't hit the 500hp mark with the new M3-M4. Considering the current CS and GTS model is already hovering that 500hp. At this power level on a rear wheel drive car is still manageable anything beyond this will require AWD.
AMG GTR ,viper , Z06 , Zr-1 . All cars a rwd chassis , all have wayyyy more than 500 hp and are the fastest cars on track with the best dynamics bc RWD! Stock Z06 record at the drag strip is 10.3@134 mph with stock tires and that's with 650/650! 500 absolutely does not equate to needing awd.
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      12-23-2017, 07:06 PM   #1542
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Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
DSC intervention doesn't necessarily mean the car can't put the power down. I agree with the other member above that it's overly exaggerated. DSC is way too restrictive in F80/F82 even in Euro MDM! I used to drive in MDM (for the first 6mos of ownership) then switched to DSC off. It's night and day difference. I have PSS 295s in the back and they slip only in in 1st gear if I straight out floor it instead of gradually increase the throttle. If I floor in 2nd and 3rd it just grips with no drama ( dsc fully off and on a straight line). Never experienced difficulty of putting the power down at the track either. In fact, my lap times are 2sec faster with DSC fully off than in MDM at Laguna Seca. I think a lot of people floor it when DSC or MDM is on and complain about power delivery. F8x doesn't grip like an AWD car but it's not nearly as bad as described here either.
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      12-23-2017, 09:15 PM   #1543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
Dsc is overly sensitive I have found, kicking in too early and too aggressively leaving you a feeling that you are not in control. Using M dynamic on the track iv noticed less of that feeling. 0-100mph runs absolutely MASHING the peddle from a dead stop in M dynamic launches the car with a little wheel spin but it quickly gains composure and bites down. Very little tail way if at all.
Mdm on track? That's still useless. Kicks in way too much.
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      12-23-2017, 09:17 PM   #1544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
DSC intervention doesn't necessarily mean the car can't put the power down. I agree with the other member above that it's overly exaggerated. DSC is way too restrictive in F80/F82 even in Euro MDM! I used to drive in MDM (for the first 6mos of ownership) then switched to DSC off. It's night and day difference. I have PSS 295s in the back and they slip only in in 1st gear if I straight out floor it instead of gradually increase the throttle. If I floor in 2nd and 3rd it just grips with no drama ( dsc fully off and on a straight line). Never experienced difficulty of putting the power down at the track either. In fact, my lap times are 2sec faster with DSC fully off than in MDM at Laguna Seca. I think a lot of people floor it when DSC or MDM is on and complain about power delivery. F8x doesn't grip like an AWD car but it's not nearly as bad as described here either.
I think randy pobst did a 1:39 bone stock m4. How does yours compare? It gets trickier as you get faster obviously.
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      12-23-2017, 09:32 PM   #1545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
DSC intervention doesn't necessarily mean the car can't put the power down. I agree with the other member above that it's overly exaggerated. DSC is way too restrictive in F80/F82 even in Euro MDM! I used to drive in MDM (for the first 6mos of ownership) then switched to DSC off. It's night and day difference. I have PSS 295s in the back and they slip only in in 1st gear if I straight out floor it instead of gradually increase the throttle. If I floor in 2nd and 3rd it just grips with no drama ( dsc fully off and on a straight line). Never experienced difficulty of putting the power down at the track either. In fact, my lap times are 2sec faster with DSC fully off than in MDM at Laguna Seca. I think a lot of people floor it when DSC or MDM is on and complain about power delivery. F8x doesn't grip like an AWD car but it's not nearly as bad as described here either.
I think randy pobst did a 1:39 bone stock m4. How does yours compare? It gets trickier as you get faster obviously.
He did 1:39 on DCT Non-ZCP. My PB is 1:41.8 with DSC off, NT01s and RS29s on my 6MT ZCP. My best time with MDM was 1:44.
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      12-23-2017, 10:27 PM   #1546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Dsc is overly sensitive I have found, kicking in too early and too aggressively leaving you a feeling that you are not in control. Using M dynamic on the track iv noticed less of that feeling. 0-100mph runs absolutely MASHING the peddle from a dead stop in M dynamic launches the car with a little wheel spin but it quickly gains composure and bites down. Very little tail way if at all.
That’s the thing - I Drive in MDM mode 100% of the time. I can’t imagine how frustrating it is if you’ve got a non ZCP.
Try Euro mdm and you will see how much it still comes on. And " a little wheelspin" pretty much everywhere adds up in lost time quickly especially on track.

I Autocross and track with both 275/35 18 and also 285/30/18 all around on my 1M. When I borrowed a friend's 10.5" rear wheels with 315/30/18 at the back that's when I realized Wow my car is finally actually getting all the power down!

I've got a Measly 335hp and just 365! Ft lbs .. :
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      12-23-2017, 10:34 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
Dsc is overly sensitive I have found, kicking in too early and too aggressively leaving you a feeling that you are not in control. Using M dynamic on the track iv noticed less of that feeling. 0-100mph runs absolutely MASHING the peddle from a dead stop in M dynamic launches the car with a little wheel spin but it quickly gains composure and bites down. Very little tail way if at all.
Mdm on track? That's still useless. Kicks in way too much.
I'm still a beginner.
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      12-24-2017, 07:59 AM   #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
DSC intervention doesn't necessarily mean the car can't put the power down. I agree with the other member above that it's overly exaggerated. DSC is way too restrictive in F80/F82 even in Euro MDM! I used to drive in MDM (for the first 6mos of ownership) then switched to DSC off. It's night and day difference. I have PSS 295s in the back and they slip only in in 1st gear if I straight out floor it instead of gradually increase the throttle. If I floor in 2nd and 3rd it just grips with no drama ( dsc fully off and on a straight line). Never experienced difficulty of putting the power down at the track either. In fact, my lap times are 2sec faster with DSC fully off than in MDM at Laguna Seca. I think a lot of people floor it when DSC or MDM is on and complain about power delivery. F8x doesn't grip like an AWD car but it's not nearly as bad as described here either.
In my car with 285s out back I was like YES! this is way better.

If you can manage to fit 315s out back , yours won't slip any more at all in first. . I'm also confident you will *then* realize that you aren't actually getting all the power down currently. Ask me how I know.

Lap times with DSC off should definitely be quicker than MDM as the latter mode employs braking of the rear wheels , along with reducing the power of the motor to maintain traction at the rear. A person that drives very smoothly can avoid the car using the brakes at the rear but usually the power being backed off is still an issue. For example at Barber Motorsports park, for me coming out of the esses onto the back straight you absolutely need 100 percent power but the car will never let you get full throttle in MDM mode because one needs to accelerate from the apex to track out and the car is at an angle still. It's one of those places where more power actually helps you as a driver, and the car is still backing out of the throttle. I would imagine coming out of the corkscrew at lacuna would be similar.
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      12-24-2017, 08:07 AM   #1549
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So 475 target bhp on the S58 will pretty much dyno 502-510 bhp. Wow. Because the S55 M3 already had no problem putting the power down to the wheels.

Cant wait for the 2019 M3 leaving cars and coffee videos!!!
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      12-24-2017, 08:17 AM   #1550
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Oh, ok - I didn't realize that. In that case, 500hp will very likely be available in the competition package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goj View Post
I spy a 500hp comp pack M3. Next car for sure

We know the S58 475 bhp will almost certainly dyno at 500+ out of the box. Whats in a number.
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      12-24-2017, 09:55 AM   #1551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
DSC intervention doesn't necessarily mean the car can't put the power down. I agree with the other member above that it's overly exaggerated. DSC is way too restrictive in F80/F82 even in Euro MDM! I used to drive in MDM (for the first 6mos of ownership) then switched to DSC off. It's night and day difference. I have PSS 295s in the back and they slip only in in 1st gear if I straight out floor it instead of gradually increase the throttle. If I floor in 2nd and 3rd it just grips with no drama ( dsc fully off and on a straight line). Never experienced difficulty of putting the power down at the track either. In fact, my lap times are 2sec faster with DSC fully off than in MDM at Laguna Seca. I think a lot of people floor it when DSC or MDM is on and complain about power delivery. F8x doesn't grip like an AWD car but it's not nearly as bad as described here either.
In my car with 285s out back I was like YES! this is way better.

If you can manage to fit 315s out back , yours won't slip any more at all in first. . I'm also confident you will *then* realize that you aren't actually getting all the power down currently. Ask me how I know.

Lap times with DSC off should definitely be quicker than MDM as the latter mode employs braking of the rear wheels , along with reducing the power of the motor to maintain traction at the rear. A person that drives very smoothly can avoid the car using the brakes at the rear but usually the power being backed off is still an issue. For example at Barber Motorsports park, for me coming out of the esses onto the back straight you absolutely need 100 percent power but the car will never let you get full throttle in MDM mode because one needs to accelerate from the apex to track out and the car is at an angle still. It's one of those places where more power actually helps you as a driver, and the car is still backing out of the throttle. I would imagine coming out of the corkscrew at lacuna would be similar.
Personal skill aside, the faster driver will be going through that turn without the DSC even engaging because they will be at the perfect speed and angle to take the turn with maximum grip and no loss of traction as opposed to the driver who is correcting with the throttle. The second driver might be faster with DSC off compared to their times with DSC on, but he would be even faster if he didn't engage DSC at all, even if it was on. In theory anyway.
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      12-24-2017, 10:15 AM   #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinh335 View Post
With all due respect I think the whole "can't put power to ground on daily basis on f80" is way over exaggerated. I suppose if you are just mashing throttle. But using proper string theory goes a long way into making the f80 very engaging fast and fun.
I just see a lot of traction control intervention, even in moderate throttle applications. And if I’m getting onto a highway, I would think I could push the accelerator most of the way down and have the car get going quickly.

I’m not mashing the throttle - but the car wiggles and hesitates, with the traction control light blinking, between 1-2 and 2-3 gears, at least it does for me.
DSC intervention doesn't necessarily mean the car can't put the power down. I agree with the other member above that it's overly exaggerated. DSC is way too restrictive in F80/F82 even in Euro MDM! I used to drive in MDM (for the first 6mos of ownership) then switched to DSC off. It's night and day difference. I have PSS 295s in the back and they slip only in in 1st gear if I straight out floor it instead of gradually increase the throttle. If I floor in 2nd and 3rd it just grips with no drama ( dsc fully off and on a straight line). Never experienced difficulty of putting the power down at the track either. In fact, my lap times are 2sec faster with DSC fully off than in MDM at Laguna Seca. I think a lot of people floor it when DSC or MDM is on and complain about power delivery. F8x doesn't grip like an AWD car but it's not nearly as bad as described here either.
In my car with 285s out back I was like YES! this is way better.

If you can manage to fit 315s out back , yours won't slip any more at all in first. . I'm also confident you will *then* realize that you aren't actually getting all the power down currently. Ask me how I know.

Lap times with DSC off should definitely be quicker than MDM as the latter mode employs braking of the rear wheels , along with reducing the power of the motor to maintain traction at the rear. A person that drives very smoothly can avoid the car using the brakes at the rear but usually the power being backed off is still an issue. For example at Barber Motorsports park, for me coming out of the esses onto the back straight you absolutely need 100 percent power but the car will never let you get full throttle in MDM mode because one needs to accelerate from the apex to track out and the car is at an angle still. It's one of those places where more power actually helps you as a driver, and the car is still backing out of the throttle. I would imagine coming out of the corkscrew at lacuna would be similar.
Personal skill aside, the faster driver will be going through that turn without the DSC even engaging because they will be at the perfect speed and angle to take the turn with maximum grip and no loss of traction as opposed to the driver who is correcting with the throttle. The second driver might be faster with DSC off compared to their times with DSC on, but he would be even faster if he didn't engage DSC at all, even if it was on. In theory anyway.
I would agree that's all in theory.

In practice, I've seen drivers be smooth and fast and some drivers are tail out , appear to be overdriving but actually are in full control.

Ever seen Pierre kleinubing driving a Real Time Acura or any Honda inspired FWD product ? Contrast that with co driver /team owner Peter
Cunningham or a driver like BMWs own Bill Auberlen who are fast and smooth lap after lap.

Any form of stability control will affect one of those drivers more than the other because of driving style.
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      12-24-2017, 10:34 AM   #1553
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I wonder how the S58 will sound...?
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      12-24-2017, 12:51 PM   #1554
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Whatever the power output, I hope they put more time and effort into getting the power to the ground. It’s something you notice on a daily basis with the F80 - which makes it hard to really enjoy what the car has to offer from a performance standpoint.
Also try Michelin PS4S (see here) or Michelin PS2 Cup tires.
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      12-24-2017, 07:31 PM   #1555
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I wonder how the S58 will sound...?
I hope it sounds nice, that's one of my main concerns with the G80
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      12-25-2017, 10:48 AM   #1556
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All that power and I will still be unhappy....

Because BMW will make the 3 series bigger yet.
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      12-25-2017, 11:30 AM   #1557
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I wonder how the S58 will sound...?
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Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I hope it sounds nice, that's one of my main concerns with the G80

Dont hold your breath. The S58 is merely a repackaged S55. Id Hate to be a grinch here, but ... it will most likely sound something like this




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      12-25-2017, 03:45 PM   #1558
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Dont hold your breath. The S58 is merely a repackaged S55. Id Hate to be a grinch here, but ... it will most likely sound something like this
exactly...
nothing but a "tuned" S55.
The F8X gen sounded terrible, M4 GTS sounds terrible.
I probably heard 5 quality aftermarket exhaust including M performance on F8X, there's no difference . It's the same "noise", just got louder and hence unpleasant. and this is at idle. This engine sounds terrible at driving too...
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      12-25-2017, 05:45 PM   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
Dont hold your breath. The S58 is merely a repackaged S55. Id Hate to be a grinch here, but ... it will most likely sound something like this
exactly...
nothing but a "tuned" S55.
The F8X gen sounded terrible, M4 GTS sounds terrible.
I probably heard 5 quality aftermarket exhaust including M performance on F8X, there's no difference . It's the same "noise", just got louder and hence unpleasant. and this is at idle. This engine sounds terrible at driving too...
Yep. Exactly why I sold my M. It was a good vehicle but there were too many things about it that bothered me... sound and lack of steering feel mainly. I still love the brand, don't get me wrong.
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      12-25-2017, 07:44 PM   #1560
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Originally Posted by eRiggs5 View Post
I wonder how the S58 will sound...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I hope it sounds nice, that's one of my main concerns with the G80

Dont hold your breath. The S58 is merely a repackaged S55. Id Hate to be a grinch here, but ... it will most likely sound something like this




People love the way the B58 sounds.. I would not make predictions just yet.
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      12-25-2017, 09:52 PM   #1561
phoenixbmwlife
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All that power and I will still be unhappy....

Because BMW will make the 3 series bigger yet.
The M2 is the new M3. Get that one if you want a smaller size.
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      12-26-2017, 06:58 AM   #1562
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Originally Posted by eRiggs5 View Post
I wonder how the S58 will sound...?
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Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
I hope it sounds nice, that's one of my main concerns with the G80

Dont hold your breath. The S58 is merely a repackaged S55. Id Hate to be a grinch here, but ... it will most likely sound something like this




People love the way the B58 sounds.. I would not make predictions just yet.
So did the N55.....
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