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      11-03-2017, 02:45 PM   #1431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
It isn't just about regulations. There is a lot of R&D money that goes into packaging. For example...think about cooling, related to different packaging constraints in the M2 engine bay. Having to develop new intake and/or intercooler piping. Developing and manufacturing new pieces, then testing all that in different climates...it all adds up. Who knows what does or doesn't carry over. M4 GTS essentially was ready to go, all they had to do was slap on water injection and a tune. Then only worry about regulations.
Yeah, that I am with you on.

But when you addressed the idea that BMW would not go through the trouble of putting the S55 into the M2 just for the limited CSL model, it read to me as though you were using this fact as a means to further bolster the theory that the Competition model will become the new base model. What I was saying was that the S55 was going to see much more widespread use than just in the CSL no matter what they did with the base model. So, my point was, there is nothing about the Competition getting the S55 that adds any weight to the "base model theory". They could slot a B58 in either way - and the S55 will still get volume use in the Competition.

That said, ironically, the logic could sort of be used in reverse as an argument against a base model. That is, why bother certifying the B58 when most everyone will want the Competition model anyway? I think the the M3/M4 Competition package - which I do understand is a slightly different animal from this new M2 Competition - has a take rate of over 80% or something like that. So I could easily see how BMW might forecast that the S55 M2 Competition model would similarly dominate sales, making the B58 not worth the trouble.

Anyway, everything else you say makes a good deal of sense to me. I am still going to be a bit surprised if the S55 M2 doesn't get a good 10% bump up in price. I think the market will certainly bear it, and that would still leave it just under $60k MSRP to start.
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      11-03-2017, 06:17 PM   #1432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
There is still that possibility, but you would think by now you would have seen spy videos of it or like you said ynguldyn would have gotten wind of it. Also there is fact the so-called M2 CS spy videos have zero additional aero bits, but yet they distinctively all have S55 exhaust notes. Also the vin numbers show an S55.
M2 variant test sessions: apart from a masked front end and camo tape around tail lights and on the diffuser, no exterior body changes (see here).

All "M2 Competition" VIN build sheets known so far mention 3.0 S55 engine with 302 kW output (410.6 hp [metric] - 405 hp (USA)).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
It seems that the M2 S55 could not see quite the price bump some would expect. According to the vin the Competition isn't getting big updates, besides S55. Only other notable upgrades in the vin are M seats(712) and M brakes (2NH), both are options. Car still has dakota leather, new perforated leather is an option. Still no M mirrors, no carbon roof, no M merino leather, etc. You can see by the vin there is still some cost cutting, in my opinion to keep msrp comfortably under the M4.
Couple of points to note when taking a closer look at leaked USA-spec "M2 Competition" VIN build sheets:
  • colors:
    • Alpinweiss 3 - paint code 300
    • Black Sapphire Metallic - paint code 475
    • Long Beach Blue Metallic - paint code C16
    • Sunset Orange Metallic - paint code C1X
    • Hockenheim Silber Metallic - paint code C33
  • upholstery: Black Dakota Leather:
    • LCNL = plain leather + blue contrast stitching (Leder Dakota/schwarz Kontr.blau)
    • LCNZ = plain leather + orange contrast stitching (Leder Dakota/schw./kontr.orange)
    • MDB2 = perforated leather + blue contrast stitching (Led.dak.des.perf.schwarz/blau)
    • MDOE = perforated leather + orange contrast stitching (Led.dak.des.perf.schwarz/orange)
  • transmission:
    • manual transmission = stock
    • M-DCT = optional (option code 2MK)
  • wheels:
    • 437M black 19" wheels (base M2) = stock (code 2VZ)
    • 788M 19" forged lightweight wheels = optional (code 2QT)
  • interior trim:
    • interior trim high gloss black with chrome trim finishers = stock (code 4LU)
    • interior trim finishers carbon fibre = optional (option code 4MC)
    • individual high gloss satin chrome with extended content in addition to either standard 4LU or optional 4MC = optional (option code 7M9)
  • M Sport Brakes = optional (option code 2NH)
  • seats:
    • Sport Seats Front Driver/Passenger = stock (code 481)
    • M Sports Seat = optional (option code 712)
  • M Seat Belts (black with ///M stripes) = stock (code 4GQ)
  • Park Distance Control front and rear = optional (option code 508)
  • M Driver's Package = optional (option code 7ME)
  • almost all base M2 options available
  • no retractable armrest front (base M2 code 4AE)
  • backseats do not feature folding headrests (base M2 code 5DC)
About your "still no M mirrors" statement: that's not what VIN build sheet illustrations show. Look below.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
The prevailing wisdom from ynguldyn is CS is now the Competition, an all new designation. So we will get a Competition and CSL. The only cars running around have S55 in the vin. Unless ynguldyn catches wind of a vin with B58tu very soon, I don't see it happening.
IMHO that makes sense.
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      11-04-2017, 08:59 AM   #1433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjcarls View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post

I'll admit I'm probably one of those buyers. My guess is I'd really love driving the M2, but I prefer the interior (and color choices) of the M3 a bit more.
I sold my 1M after 6 months for an M3. My biggest complaint was sub-par interior materials. I used the M3 everyday and wanted to be coddled a little more. I dont regret the decision at all, the M3 was just better all around.
Go for what you know !
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      11-04-2017, 12:54 PM   #1434
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I would definitely be interested in a ZCP M2, especially if it were to get some of the trinkets I have in my ZCP F80 - Im not expecting all of them, but the CF roof and distinguishable seats are really nice.

Theyd also be smart to include the 666M wheels as an option from the factory - those look unbelievable on the M2, especially with a slight drop.

Saw some M2s at the Dallas cars and coffee this morning - its such a good looking car on the outside, but having had a 235 previously, I cant take the low rent interior. If BMW addresses some of that with the ZCP, I might be willing to trade, as the F80 is a little big for my tastes.
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      11-04-2017, 01:10 PM   #1435
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      11-04-2017, 08:46 PM   #1436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I would definitely be interested in a ZCP M2, especially if it were to get some of the trinkets I have in my ZCP F80 - I’m not expecting all of them, but the CF roof and distinguishable seats are really nice.

They’d also be smart to include the 666M wheels as an option from the factory - those look unbelievable on the M2, especially with a slight drop.

Saw some M2s at the Dallas cars and coffee this morning - it’s such a good looking car on the outside, but having had a 235 previously, I can’t take the low rent interior. If BMW addresses some of that with the ZCP, I might be willing to trade, as the F80 is a little big for my tastes.

: :



Dude BMW already got you to the F80 right where they want most buyers!

BMW has sold 3500 M2 in the US and how many F8x M3/M4 ? Probably 10x as many.
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      11-04-2017, 09:57 PM   #1437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
: :



Dude BMW already got you to the F80 right where they want most buyers!

BMW has sold 3500 M2 in the US and how many F8x M3/M4 ? Probably 10x as many.


So, I can want something else ?

Or go elsewhere, as Ive done already? And can do so again, easily...
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      11-04-2017, 10:20 PM   #1438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I would definitely be interested in a ZCP M2, especially if it were to get some of the trinkets I have in my ZCP F80 - I’m not expecting all of them, but the CF roof and distinguishable seats are really nice.

They’d also be smart to include the 666M wheels as an option from the factory - those look unbelievable on the M2, especially with a slight drop.

Saw some M2s at the Dallas cars and coffee this morning - it’s such a good looking car on the outside, but having had a 235 previously, I can’t take the low rent interior. If BMW addresses some of that with the ZCP, I might be willing to trade, as the F80 is a little big for my tastes.

: :



Dude BMW already got you to the F80 right where they want most buyers!

BMW has sold 3500 M2 in the US and how many F8x M3/M4 ? Probably 10x as many.
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      11-05-2017, 01:28 AM   #1439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I would definitely be interested in a ZCP M2, especially if it were to get some of the trinkets I have in my ZCP F80 - I ƒÂ‚’m not expecting all of them, but the CF roof and distinguishable seats are really nice.

TheyÂà‚’d also be smart to include the 666M wheels as an option from the factory - those look unbelievable on the M2, especially with a slight drop.

Saw some M2s at the Dallas cars and coffee this morning - it ’s such a good looking car on the outside, but having had a 235 previously, I canÂà’t take the low rent interior. If BMW addresses some of that with the ZCP, I might be willing to trade, as the F80 is a little big for my tastes.

: :



Dude BMW already got you to the F80 right where they want most buyers!

BMW has sold 3500 M2 in the US and how many F8x M3/M4 ? Probably 10x as many.
Pictures are always worth 1000 words
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      11-07-2017, 08:52 AM   #1440
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Quote:
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Pictures are always worth 1000 words
And driving, a whole dictionary.
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      11-09-2017, 09:00 AM   #1441
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Confirmed 300hp for B48A20T1 engine (X2 M35i, future M235i GC).
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      11-09-2017, 11:52 AM   #1442
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Quote:
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Confirmed 300hp for B48A20T1 engine (X2 M35i, future M235i GC).
Nice. With 300hp from the 2.0 litre engine, I'm hopeful we'll see 380 to 400hp in the G20 M340i
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      11-10-2017, 10:21 AM   #1443
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Confirmed 300hp for B48A20T1 engine (X2 M35i, future M235i GC).
That means the next M2 will be the only 2 series with a 6 cylinder engine? Or will the next M2 have a 4 cylinder engine? Manufacturers are already extracting close to 400hp from 2.0L units and the ever tightening fuel and emission regulations aren't helping either. Thank you for sharing info with us
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      11-10-2017, 10:45 AM   #1444
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That means the next M2 will be the only 2 series with a 6 cylinder engine?
No. The next generation 2 Series Coupe and Convertible will, with a high degree of certainty approaching 100%, include second generation M240i models complete with a B58 inline six just like the current generation (of course it will be a new iteration of the engine with more power).

This new high output B48 T1 is only being offered in UKL vehicles. As ynguldyn said previously, there is currently no evidence of any forthcoming RWD version.

Quote:
Or will the next M2 have a 4 cylinder engine?
No, it too will stick with an inline 6. Assuming there is indeed no more non-S-engine-powered F87 M2 after the new "Competition" model debuts (which looks extremely likely at this point), the I6 would most probably be the S58. However, as the N58 gets more powerful (quite possibly over 400hp by the time the next M2 arrives after 2022), they may instead slot that in for the base non-Competition model and reserve the S58 for higher end, high output models.

Quote:
Manufacturers are already extracting close to 400hp from 2.0L units and the ever tightening fuel and emission regulations aren't helping either.
Indeed. In fact, Volvo is actually over 400hp already if you count their hybrid I4 drivetrain. They also have a 362hp non-hybrid I4. Mercedes has a 375hp I4 in their entry level AMG range, and is rumored to be developing a 400hp+ mild hybrid setup (similar to the their new M256 I6) for the next iteration of this engine to debut first in the new A45 sedan sometime in 2019.

It is disappointing to me that BMW is trailing behind in both hybrid and non-hybrid high performance four cylinder drivetrains. This new iteration of the B48 gets them at least into the game, but sadly, they do not currently have plans to go bigger to compete with the Mercedes-AMG *45 lineup.

While they do have the I4 hybrid "40e" used in the X5 and 7 Series with over 300hp, and as ynguldyn recently reported, they will soon evolve this to a new "45e" setup (with unknown power figures for the electric, combustion, and total outputs), they don't seem to be interested in using this setup or a similar setup in smaller vehicles (be they either UKL or CLAR).
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      11-10-2017, 12:40 PM   #1445
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Thanks for the explanation. Forgot the next 2 series gran coupe will be FWD or AWD based. So it's logical, that it would have a 4 cyl engine. Can't fit a straight 6 transversly.

But yeah it is disapointing, that BMW hasn't developed any high output 4 cyl engines with or without hybrid technology.
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      11-11-2017, 05:40 AM   #1446
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Or will the next M2 have a 4 cylinder engine?
Now that would make it the true successor to the E30 M3!
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      11-15-2017, 01:33 PM   #1447
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Confirmed 300hp for B48A20T1 engine (X2 M35i, future M235i GC).
Really confirmed 300hp? And not more than 300hp ... meaning 326hp!?
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      11-15-2017, 01:39 PM   #1448
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Yess!!! Hopping for the G20 to have 300hp on the 330i! Technically that's easy, no sure about marketing position (too close to the B58 power output)
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      11-15-2017, 01:58 PM   #1449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
Really confirmed 300hp? And not more than 300hp ... meaning 326hp!?
300.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony3DHeli View Post
Yess!!! Hopping for the G20 to have 300hp on the 330i! Technically that's easy, no sure about marketing position (too close to the B58 power output)
255 is all you get.
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      11-15-2017, 01:58 PM   #1450
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How about an M power kit for the B48
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      11-15-2017, 02:08 PM   #1451
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How about an M power kit for the B48
There's a power kit for G30, but not other models.
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      11-15-2017, 02:15 PM   #1452
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There's a power kit for G30, but not other models.
Whats the hp output of this power kit ?
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