Thoughts on entry level SC kits

cvstar9M3 · 01-16-2019, 06:53 PM

I daily drive my e90 6mt and will likely do occasional track. I Might have the bug to supercharge but I'm thinking ess/vf 550 or 595. I don't see any reviews from stock (granted I'm almost full bolt on now). to one these kits. Most of the reviews just mention the difference between these kits and upgrading to 625/650. Can anyone share thoughts on upgrading entry level kits? I'm leaning more 595 btw.

Also. Is doing RB essentially mandatory if going SC?

amrazM · 01-16-2019, 08:07 PM

Don’t supercharge a lci tri metal bearing motor on original bearings. If there is wear on the shells now the positive pressure from a blower will exaggerate the wear.

akh23456 · 01-17-2019, 04:11 AM

Highly recommend doing bearings when you do a supercharger install.

SVH · 01-17-2019, 06:11 AM

I originally had a ESS VT2 600 on my e93. I thought (and still think) that was a great set up - more than enough power, quick, and a nice balance for a street car. Never overheated, had the intercooler, extra weight of the convertible actually helped traction, got around a 0 to 60 of 3.7 sec. I then switch to a 650 which tended to spin the tires too much rendering 1st gear useless but it would pull a little harder in higher gears. I never tracked the car. So it's a question of the type driving you intend to do.

cvstar9M3 · 01-17-2019, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVH

I originally had a ESS VT2 600 on my e93. I thought (and still think) that was a great set up - more than enough power, quick, and a nice balance for a street car. Never overheated, had the intercooler, extra weight of the convertible actually helped traction, got around a 0 to 60 of 3.7 sec. I then switch to a 650 which tended to spin the tires too much rendering 1st gear useless but it would pull a little harder in higher gears. I never tracked the car. So it's a question of the type driving you intend to do.

600? Is that the 595 kit now? Did they also have a 625 kit at that time? I'm thinking 625 might just be the sweet spot. There are a couple used ones out there I'm looking at. Thank you for your input btw.

SVH · 01-17-2019, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvstar9M3

600? Is that the 595 kit now? Did they also have a 625 kit at that time? I'm thinking 625 might just be the sweet spot. There are a couple used ones out there I'm looking at. Thank you for your input btw.

Yeah, ess had a 600 back then. It now the 595. They still have the 625

Soden82 · 01-17-2019, 07:55 AM

I would definitely replace the rod bearings.

And why not save up a little more and get the 625 kit? What if you get the smaller kit, drive it for a bit and then realize you wanted more and now need to upgrade again.

Go big or go home; at least that's my mentality with things

cvstar9M3 · 01-17-2019, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soden82

I would definitely replace the rod bearings.

And why not save up a little more and get the 625 kit? What if you get the smaller kit, drive it for a bit and then realize you wanted more and now need to upgrade again.

Go big or go home; at least that's my mentality with things

Yeah... that's what I'm leaning on. I'm looking at a couple used 625 kits right now locally. Anyone familiar with the risks of getting used kits and what I should be looking for (like does a certain mileage on the kit matter? what's too much milage?)

SAMM3Y · 01-17-2019, 11:22 AM

My issue with used kits is price, I'm looking at FI too and am gonna sort the rest of the car out properly before I purchase one. IMO people want too much $ for used kits with 20k miles on them. Plus they don't include the tune or a warranty. I've decided when I do mine it's gonna be a new one. Vivid racing have a brand new vf625 kit right now for $7625 + shipping. I'd be all over it if I were ready, beats paying $5k for used kit with no tune.

GORDON.M3 · 01-17-2019, 11:59 AM

If I was going to spend money on an SC kit, I'd go ahead and do both the rod and main bearings.

6ixSpd · 01-17-2019, 12:09 PM

No one is going to preventatively do main bearings. The cost is huge, it's not just as simple as a RB job and requires some expertise in engine assembly. Main bearing failure is extremely rare on these cars. The costs involved to do it for supercharging are hardly justifiable based on the empirical data out there.

cvstar9M3 · 01-17-2019, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

No one is going to preventatively do main bearings. The cost is huge, it's not just as simple as a RB job and requires some expertise in engine assembly. Main bearing failure is extremely rare on these cars. The costs involved to do it for supercharging are hardly justifiable based on the empirical data out there.

Yeah. I don't think main bearing is really a big factor. As you mentioned, there are rare failures. Rod bearing is what I'll likely do as I SC.

cvstar9M3 · 01-17-2019, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

My issue with used kits is price, I'm looking at FI too and am gonna sort the rest of the car out properly before I purchase one. IMO people want too much $ for used kits with 20k miles on them. Plus they don't include the tune or a warranty. I've decided when I do mine it's gonna be a new one. Vivid racing have a brand new vf625 kit right now for $7625 + shipping. I'd be all over it if I were ready, beats paying $5k for used kit with no tune.

I'm doing the same cost analysis myself new vs. used.

tom @ eas · 01-17-2019, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soden82

I would definitely replace the rod bearings.

And why not save up a little more and get the 625 kit? What if you get the smaller kit, drive it for a bit and then realize you wanted more and now need to upgrade again.

Go big or go home; at least that's my mentality with things

Agreed, we sell mostly VT2-625 kits, it's ESS's most popular kit.

GORDON.M3 · 01-17-2019, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

No one is going to preventatively do main bearings. The cost is huge, it's not just as simple as a RB job and requires some expertise in engine assembly. Main bearing failure is extremely rare on these cars. The costs involved to do it for supercharging are hardly justifiable based on the empirical data out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvstar9M3

Yeah. I don't think main bearing is really a big factor. As you mentioned, there are rare failures. Rod bearing is what I'll likely do as I SC.

Main bearing failures are a freak incident but it does happen. Supercharging the car puts stress on the front of the crank which ultimately causes detrimental results to the #1 main bearing.

Rod bearings is a must regardless if SC'd or not. I've seen too many blown S65s because of the rod bearings.

And yes, if you were to do the mains make sure you get a proper engine builder. Not one that would seat the bed plate with RTV.

jcolley · 01-17-2019, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

And yes, if you were to do the mains make sure you get a proper engine builder. Not one that would seat the bed plate with RTV.

Seriously....wtf does that?

Looking forward to meeting you OP.

GORDON.M3 · 01-18-2019, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcolley

Seriously....wtf does that?

Looking forward to meeting you OP.

You should see some of the "builders" who did a few guys rebuild M5 on M5board.

https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e6...bed-plate.html

Patrón · 01-18-2019, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

My issue with used kits is price, I'm looking at FI too and am gonna sort the rest of the car out properly before I purchase one. IMO people want too much $ for used kits with 20k miles on them. Plus they don't include the tune or a warranty. I've decided when I do mine it's gonna be a new one. Vivid racing have a brand new vf625 kit right now for $7625 + shipping. I'd be all over it if I were ready, beats paying $5k for used kit with no tune.

used kits aren't like tires or piston rings. they really don't wear-out except the belts. (if they change the blower fluid per schedule)
$5k =$500-$1,000 tune is a decent savings compared to $7,625. you could use the savings for bearings plugs etc..

bought my kit used, worked flawlessly for over 10k miles and sold it. third owner is enjoying it as well.

SAMM3Y · 01-19-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrón

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

My issue with used kits is price, I'm looking at FI too and am gonna sort the rest of the car out properly before I purchase one. IMO people want too much $ for used kits with 20k miles on them. Plus they don't include the tune or a warranty. I've decided when I do mine it's gonna be a new one. Vivid racing have a brand new vf625 kit right now for $7625 + shipping. I'd be all over it if I were ready, beats paying $5k for used kit with no tune.

used kits aren't like tires or piston rings. they really don't wear-out except the belts. (if they change the blower fluid per schedule)
$5k =$500-$1,000 tune is a decent savings compared to $7,625. you could use the savings for bearings plugs etc..

bought my kit used, worked flawlessly for over 10k miles and sold it. third owner is enjoying it as well.

Anything with a bearing in it has a finite life not only on blowers but definitely on poorly adjusted belt tensioners. I don't see these manufacturers offering lifetime warranties on their products. I've rebuilt sc's centrifugal and twin screw type before on other cars as well as have had injectors stick open, I'd NEVER opt for a used kit to save $1k when I'm spending $6k+ plus you get the support of the manufacturer when you purchase new..

pbonsalb · 01-19-2019, 01:02 PM

15% savings definitely would not do it for me. Have to be at least 1/3 off, preferably half.

Scharbag · 01-20-2019, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

You should see some of the "builders" who did a few guys rebuild M5 on M5board.

https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e6...bed-plate.html

Good christ. Black "quality" RTV sounds awesome...

Some peoples children...

m3ninja · 01-20-2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

My issue with used kits is price, I'm looking at FI too and am gonna sort the rest of the car out properly before I purchase one. IMO people want too much $ for used kits with 20k miles on them. Plus they don't include the tune or a warranty. I've decided when I do mine it's gonna be a new one. Vivid racing have a brand new vf625 kit right now for $7625 + shipping. I'd be all over it if I were ready, beats paying $5k for used kit with no tune.

Not sure where you're getting that figure from but expect closer to $11,500 installed and be glad if you can find one for $5k used.

01-16-2019, 06:53 PM	#1
cvstar9M3 Major 284 Rep 1,095 Posts Drives: 2011 MR e90ZCP 6-MT Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: The Bean iTrader: (1)	Thoughts on entry level SC kits I daily drive my e90 6mt and will likely do occasional track. I Might have the bug to supercharge but I'm thinking ess/vf 550 or 595. I don't see any reviews from stock (granted I'm almost full bolt on now). to one these kits. Most of the reviews just mention the difference between these kits and upgrading to 625/650. Can anyone share thoughts on upgrading entry level kits? I'm leaning more 595 btw. Also. Is doing RB essentially mandatory if going SC? __________________ 2011 MR e90ZCP, 6-mt 2011.75 e90 M3 ZCP, DCT, ZP2, ZCV, JB w/ 2Toned FoxRed/Black Interior - SOLD
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01-16-2019, 08:07 PM	#2
amrazM mTekMods 2139 Rep 2,899 Posts Drives: like a granny. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Manhatan iTrader: (1)	Don’t supercharge a lci tri metal bearing motor on original bearings. If there is wear on the shells now the positive pressure from a blower will exaggerate the wear. __________________ 2011 Frozen Black/Fox Red E90 M3 650+WHP G-Power Supercharged First DCT to Manual Conversion Worldwide KW CS, BBS RI-A, BW Headers, Snow 2.5
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01-17-2019, 04:11 AM	#3
akh23456 All I do is Win... Eat Race Sleep 152 Rep 2,184 Posts Drives: 2018 Range 2011 M3 2019 600lt Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: South Jersey iTrader: (2) Garage List 2019 McLaren 600 LT [0.00] 2011 e90 M3 [0.00] 2018 Range Rover Au ... [0.00]	Highly recommend doing bearings when you do a supercharger install. __________________ Rs7 : 10.4 133.50 with a 1.7 60ft Toyo R888 F10 M5: 11.308 131.96 with a 1.9 60ft Street Tires E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires
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01-17-2019, 06:11 AM	#4
SVH First Lieutenant 152 Rep 392 Posts Drives: 2016 328i & 2011-e93 TT Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (0)	I originally had a ESS VT2 600 on my e93. I thought (and still think) that was a great set up - more than enough power, quick, and a nice balance for a street car. Never overheated, had the intercooler, extra weight of the convertible actually helped traction, got around a 0 to 60 of 3.7 sec. I then switch to a 650 which tended to spin the tires too much rendering 1st gear useless but it would pull a little harder in higher gears. I never tracked the car. So it's a question of the type driving you intend to do.
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01-17-2019, 07:55 AM	#7
Soden82 Major 477 Rep 1,194 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Boston iTrader: (1) Garage List 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	I would definitely replace the rod bearings. And why not save up a little more and get the 625 kit? What if you get the smaller kit, drive it for a bit and then realize you wanted more and now need to upgrade again. Go big or go home; at least that's my mentality with things __________________ 2009 BMW 335i 6MT big single (eventually) For now... MHD tuned VRSF Race IC DCI ATM exhaust
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01-17-2019, 11:22 AM	#9
SAMM3Y Colonel 3085 Rep 2,747 Posts Drives: 2008 m3 Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: NorCal iTrader: (2)	My issue with used kits is price, I'm looking at FI too and am gonna sort the rest of the car out properly before I purchase one. IMO people want too much $ for used kits with 20k miles on them. Plus they don't include the tune or a warranty. I've decided when I do mine it's gonna be a new one. Vivid racing have a brand new vf625 kit right now for $7625 + shipping. I'd be all over it if I were ready, beats paying $5k for used kit with no tune. __________________ 9ers
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01-17-2019, 11:59 AM	#10
GORDON.M3 Brigadier General 1423 Rep 3,001 Posts Drives: E92 M3 • F25 X3 M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: LAX/YYZ/NRT iTrader: (11)	If I was going to spend money on an SC kit, I'd go ahead and do both the rod and main bearings. __________________ INSTAGRAM: GORDON.M3 North American Mr12Volt Carplay/Android Auto Distributor DINAN \| EVOSPORT \| VAC \| ARP \| RD SPORT \| NEEZ \| EIBACH \| CSF \| IND \| BILSTEIN \| KLASSEN \| BREMBO \| ENDLESS \| BBS \| BPM SPORT \| PROJECT MU \| EVENTURI
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01-17-2019, 12:09 PM	#11
6ixSpd Save the manuals! 6015 Rep 6,745 Posts Drives: '16 M3, '23 718 Spyder Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: 416 iTrader: (4)	No one is going to preventatively do main bearings. The cost is huge, it's not just as simple as a RB job and requires some expertise in engine assembly. Main bearing failure is extremely rare on these cars. The costs involved to do it for supercharging are hardly justifiable based on the empirical data out there. __________________ '16 M3 \| '23 718 Spyder Past: E92 M3, F87 M2, E39 M5, etc
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01-19-2019, 01:02 PM	#20
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 5228 Rep 10,614 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	15% savings definitely would not do it for me. Have to be at least 1/3 off, preferably half.
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