MCS Triples or Ohlins TTX Triples?

[e36clubracer]

I just picked up a e92 M3 a little over a month ago and I am looking at refreshing the suspension. The stock EDC suspension with H&R race springs (from original owner) is very under dampened and it makes the car enjoyable to drive.

My background is I club raced on the west coast for several years and at the time had JRZ doubles on my car. I was never super enthused with their support at the time so I am not considering them again even if they've gotten better.

I will be tracking the car several times a year and hitting the local Auto-x regularly as well.

I know they are both race shocks and will require rebuilds periodically. I doubt I'll put more than 5-7k miles a year on the car so that's not really an issue.

Anybody have in-depth experience on either with the E9x platform they can share? I spoke with both Bimmerworld and PSI and both give their pluses and minuses on each setup. Why is one better than the other? Maybe I am splitting hairs?

[Estoril Blue]

IIRC if you read the MCS website, it recommends that triple adjustables be used by teams with a designated suspension engineer.

(Not saying you don't have one)

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

IIRC if you read the MCS website, it recommends that triple adjustables be used by teams with a designated suspension engineer.

(Not saying you don't have one)

Thanks for looking out but I'll be OK.

Also if you have the TTXs, I assume you got them from PSI? How were they with support/rebuild times, etc?

[SYT_Shadow]

I've had JRZ 2 way, MCS 2 way, then on my current cars MCS 3WR and MCS 2WNR

The 3WR is very, very impressive. It's hard to imagine something being better than this. You can tell the difference in damping vs the MCS 2WNR (which was already better than the JRZ). It is also completely quiet.

It is comforting to deal with the Bimmerworld/MCS network, where a pro race driver who has raced BMWs since the beginning has worked on the valving etc we get for the E9X platform.

I still haven't had to rebuild the shocks, 4th season. I drive my car to/from the track so it's been +30k miles

[MaX PL]

syt, you should post some videos of some laps at LRP and Watkins if you go there this season.

[Hoosier_M3]

If you're looking into shocks at this level, I'll throw Penske in the mix as well. It's not really advertised on their site but they sell an E9x setup that's comparable to MCS/Ohlins.

It is less of a package deal (requiring a lot more setup/engineering) relative to what you'd get from BW/MCS and PSI/Ohlins but worth looking into at that price point.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

syt, you should post some videos of some laps at LRP and Watkins if you go there this season.

I'm going to WGI twice this season! If you ever go let me know!

I don't go to LRP, I find it's too small even though it is really closeby!

[e36clubracer]

Hoosier - I thought about Penske but it seems like there is a lack of support from their side like you mentioned?


SYT - what is the big differences you found with the MCS doubles vs the triples?Do you run a full coilover rear or do you keep the stock location? You've been happy with the support from Bimmerworld?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Hoosier - I thought about Penske but it seems like there is a lack of support from their side like you mentioned?


SYT - what is the big differences you found with the MCS doubles vs the triples?Do you run a full coilover rear or do you keep the stock location? You've been happy with the support from Bimmerworld?

I am not a suspension geek, or a car setup geek. I drive whatever I have hard at the track and the times show it's fast. I don't know how to set up suspension and don't tweak suspension, nor complain about 'turn in understeer' or any other characteristic of the car. Whatever it has I will drive around to get the fastest lap I can. Fortunately I can count on others to tweak for me, but that rarely happens. The 3WR I have is well set up by James Clay at this point, but I've tracked it 3 years with minimal changes and it has been fast out of the box.

At the beginning I had stock suspension + camber plates which was decently fast. A 6MT E92 with RE71 tires doing 2:11 flat at WGI is pretty good. I wanted to run stickier tires so suspension was a requirement. People who have been tracking for many years struggle to match that even in wildly faster cars, like the F8X CS (we have a 2:06 stock with the CS).

At all times my brother and I have at least two cars dedicated to the track.

I started off with JRZ on my E92 and MCS on the E90, both 2 way non remote setups. BW suggested I get two MCS, but the JRZ were just rebuilt at Olsen and I couldn't pass up the price.
It was clear their damping characteristics were different, JRZ being harsher despite running softer springs, but most importantly the amount of noise the JRZ had was unacceptable vs the MCS which were whisper quiet. I sold the JRZ and replaced with the MCS 3W.

The MCS 3W is as quiet as the 2WNR, but the damping quality is a clear step above and it is immediately noticeable. Neither are harsh, but the 3W feels almost plush although 700/1000 rates are pretty high.
At WGI you have a 'bus stop' where you have to eat a massive curb. The 2WNR takes it very well, but the 3W eats that curb barely even moving the car, it just shrugs it off and continues on its way.

Now I'm using the MCS 3WR in the E90 stroker and a different set of MCS 2WNR full coilover rear in the F80 CS. The F8X has a eye-to-eye rear suspension with a huge distribution pad so it takes the full coilover without issues.
The E90 with the 3W uses a divorced setup in the rear as I don't run a cage.


I've been using Bimmerworld since the beginning of this infinite money pit called tracking and they have yet to steer me wrong somewhere, and I'm on car #3. Excellent support from a staff who is dedicated to BMW M cars. Phil Wurz over there is fantastic. I couldn't be happier with their knowledge and support.
There are two specific items I've bought at Bimmerworld's recommendation which are second to none: one is the PFC BBKs and another is the MCS suspension. I argued PFC was the cat's pajamas for years in the E9X generation, but eventually I got an F8X and for the rear bought the AP RadiCal big boy rear (PFC front) and yup, as expected, PFC > AP

[tsk94]

I think you'd be very happy with either.

MCS makes a great product and from what I hear their support is excellent.

The Ohlins, in my opinion, would be a superior shock. The R&D and development a company like Ohlins can put into it's product is unrivaled by smaller outfits like MCS. The TTX are quite similar to what a lot of factory and professional teams run on GT3 and GTE cars.

However, I suspect the Ohlins would be quite a bit more money. When I was considering suspension options I was looking at the TTX 2-ways (if I can remember correctly) from PSI. The whole setup was ~9-10k, so I can only assume the triples would be another 1-2k on top of that. A 3-way MCS setup from Bimmerworld would be like ~8kish? If the budget isn't a concern, go with the Ohlins. However, the difference in performance at this level of shocks is minimal and the MCS's would still be phenomenal.

[dparm]

Have you guys ever considered Tractive, especially the electronically tuneable shock?

https://tractivesuspension.com/produ...-m3-2005-2012/

[Hoosier_M3]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Hoosier - I thought about Penske but it seems like there is a lack of support from their side like you mentioned?


SYT - what is the big differences you found with the MCS doubles vs the triples?Do you run a full coilover rear or do you keep the stock location? You've been happy with the support from Bimmerworld?

I'd agree with everything SYT said below about MCS and Bimmerworld support, they make an amazing product and I almost went down that route myself.

The shop I use runs Penske in a lot of their customer cars and has worked directly with the factory for a long time (plus we're in CT and they're in PA so shipping is pretty rapid) so they pushed for Penske. I ended up rebuilding a used set of takeoffs from an old Turner E92 so the cost was roughly the same. We've ran into a few hiccups installing them (since this isn't a plug and play kit like you'd get from MCS) and Penske was able to provide or make any ad hoc bits we need (same or next day turnaround every time). This has actually been quite the process and will get a proper write-up in my build thread at some point.

The other big difference comes from dialing in the car once the chose shocks are installed. With MCS, Bimmerworld has a really good idea how to set things up from their own experience and all their customers running them. Like SYT said above... James set it up and it was fast out of the box. This will likely not be the case for me and we'll need to fiddle with the suspension until we get it right.

Reading this back I'm doing a pretty terrible job justifying my own decision. But they're going on the car tomorrow. And the car is going on the track Friday. And that's all the matters.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_M3

I'd agree with everything SYT said below about MCS and Bimmerworld support, they make an amazing product and I almost went down that route myself.

The shop I use runs Penske in a lot of their customer cars and has worked directly with the factory for a long time (plus we're in CT and they're in PA so shipping is pretty rapid) so they pushed for Penske. I ended up rebuilding a used set of takeoffs from an old Turner E92 so the cost was roughly the same. We've ran into a few hiccups installing them (since this isn't a plug and play kit like you'd get from MCS) and Penske was able to provide or make any ad hoc bits we need (same or next day turnaround every time). This has actually been quite the process and will get a proper write-up in my build thread at some point.

The other big difference comes from dialing in the car once the chose shocks are installed. With MCS, Bimmerworld has a really good idea how to set things up from their own experience and all their customers running them. Like SYT said above... James set it up and it was fast out of the box. This will likely not be the case for me and we'll need to fiddle with the suspension until we get it right.

Reading this back I'm doing a pretty terrible job justifying my own decision. But they're going on the car tomorrow. And the car is going on the track Friday. And that's all the matters.

It's always convenient to use what your shop wants to use.

Suspension setup is a pain but eventually I'm sure the Penske setup will work great.

Looking forward to your impressions!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dparm

Have you guys ever considered Tractive, especially the electronically tuneable shock?

https://tractivesuspension.com/produ...-m3-2005-2012/

I've thought of it... it would take the guesswork out of setting the damping up. But they're expensive, and I question their ability to take a beating at the track and still function.
They seem like EDC on steroids, which is cool, but can it really deliver? It's an expensive experiment

[Hoosier_M3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It's always convenient to use what your shop wants to use.

Suspension setup is a pain but eventually I'm sure the Penske setup will work great.

Looking forward to your impressions!

Me too! Hopefully I'll see you at WGI this season and we can do a proper comparison

[dparm]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've thought of it... it would take the guesswork out of setting the damping up. But they're expensive, and I question their ability to take a beating at the track and still function.
They seem like EDC on steroids, which is cool, but can it really deliver? It's an expensive experiment

There are guys with these on C7 track cars and they've held up fine. I agree it is not a cheap choice, but they do have non-electronic triples, too.

[e36clubracer]

Thanks everybody there is a lot of good info here. It seems like there is not a lot of people on the E9x platform running the Ohlins TTX. In my research it does seem like the TTX platform has some superior characteristics to the MCS design and that is why I was considering it. Interestingly it seems the people running the TTX run a lower spring rate than the recommended with the MCS?

Honestly I am leaning towards the MCS due to support from a larger outfit like Bimmerworld. I talked to John Webb over there and he went over why he thinks the MCS damper is a better fit over the TTX and he went over their experience with the TTX on the M4 GT4 platform. I am not worried about the cost as either are quite expensive. I just want something that is tailored to the car that can help extract the most performance possible.

[warp10]

MCS and dont look back

[dparm]

What do the Schirmer M3s run?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by dparm

What do the Schirmer M3s run?

Nitron's

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/nit...sis-p2837.aspx

[//steve\\]

My money says the MCS/Ohlins options will be just as capable or more on the car with much easier/better stateside support. MCS happens to be only ~4 miles from my house which made my decision to snag a solid used 2WNR setup an easy decision.

[slicer]

I'm on my second set of TTX and absolutely love them. Quick build times, great service, pro quality and durable. I have had zero issues with my kits. The US distributor that I use carries plenty of stock and can get a set built and shipped in as quick as 1 week.