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      08-01-2020, 05:56 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Did they give you any pricing details? Wonder how thicc the pads are. Need about 40mm.
Pricing I got was $4,699 for the front 6 piston and $4,199 for the rear 4 piston. Pad thickness is 25mm front and 20mm rears.
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      08-02-2020, 12:34 AM   #90
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      08-02-2020, 11:20 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
Can the pads be flipped to alternate the wear?
I don't know if that would be possible. I never tried. I like leaving the pads in until they're worn
It's very easy, as easy as... swapping pads. I rotated all 4 of mine in about 20 minutes.

I agree that's a little annoying but rotation isn't a big deal IMO. My AP kits have been flawless. I don't find the pad thickness to be an issue but I'm not on track as much as you and when I am I don't double duty the car. Too busy trying to build a business or 2
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      08-02-2020, 11:51 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
It's very easy, as easy as... swapping pads. I rotated all 4 of mine in about 20 minutes.

I agree that's a little annoying but rotation isn't a big deal IMO. My AP kits have been flawless. I don't find the pad thickness to be an issue but I'm not on track as much as you and when I am I don't double duty the car. Too busy trying to build a business or 2
Slicer are you experiencing the pad taper issue too? First I had heard about this with the AP Essex kits....
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      08-02-2020, 12:13 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
It's very easy, as easy as... swapping pads. I rotated all 4 of mine in about 20 minutes.

[IMG]undefined[/IMG]I agree that's a little annoying but rotation isn't a big deal IMO. My AP kits have been flawless. I don't find the pad thickness to be an issue but I'm not on track as much as you and when I am I don't double duty the car. Too busy trying to build a business or 2
So... you get pad taper and rotate your pads to solve it?
That is not 'flawless'. It is clearly a flaw that requires you to perform additional work to solve.

On my PFC kit I put a set of pads on and don't touch them again until they are worn, and they wear properly. That is what I call flawless. Flawless = absence of flaws

Every single time someone performs work on a car, whether it's removing wheels or pads or whatever, there is possibility for error.


The amount of taper on the Ap RadiCal kit is what I'd expect from base stoptech brakes. If the brakes cost 2k I'd think it's pretty bad. Costing 4k it is unacceptable.

Some people may feel double-dutying a car is too extreme, but that's the whole point of the top-shelf brake kits. And it's something at least one other kit can just shrug off like it nothing happened.
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Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 08-02-2020 at 12:53 PM..
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      08-02-2020, 01:36 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36clubracer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
It's very easy, as easy as... swapping pads. I rotated all 4 of mine in about 20 minutes.

I agree that's a little annoying but rotation isn't a big deal IMO. My AP kits have been flawless. I don't find the pad thickness to be an issue but I'm not on track as much as you and when I am I don't double duty the car. Too busy trying to build a business or 2
Slicer are you experiencing the pad taper issue too? First I had heard about this with the AP Essex kits....
Yes, slight taper.
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      08-02-2020, 01:39 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
It's very easy, as easy as... swapping pads. I rotated all 4 of mine in about 20 minutes.

[IMG]undefined[/IMG]I agree that's a little annoying but rotation isn't a big deal IMO. My AP kits have been flawless. I don't find the pad thickness to be an issue but I'm not on track as much as you and when I am I don't double duty the car. Too busy trying to build a business or 2
So... you get pad taper and rotate your pads to solve it?
That is not 'flawless'. It is clearly a flaw that requires you to perform additional work to solve.

On my PFC kit I put a set of pads on and don't touch them again until they are worn, and they wear properly. That is what I call flawless. Flawless = absence of flaws

Every single time someone performs work on a car, whether it's removing wheels or pads or whatever, there is possibility for error.


The amount of taper on the Ap RadiCal kit is what I'd expect from base stoptech brakes. If the brakes cost 2k I'd think it's pretty bad. Costing 4k it is unacceptable.

Some people may feel double-dutying a car is too extreme, but that's the whole point of the top-shelf brake kits. And it's something at least one other kit can just shrug off like it nothing happened.
Good point - I should say that they have been "otherwise flawless". I don't think rotating and inspecting my pads one time during my pad life is a big issue. It gave me a chance to inspect the overall kit and of course the pads themselves.
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      08-02-2020, 02:17 PM   #96
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Are these the Alcons you got from BW?

CR6420 (front)
PFC 01
25mm thick pads
380mm slotted rotor

CAR4949 (rear)
PFC 332
20mm thick pads
343mm slotted rotor

What made you go with these over PFC? What are there solving that AP isn't?
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      08-02-2020, 03:16 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
@SYT_Shadow

Are these the Alcons you got from BW?

CR6420 (front)
PFC 01
25mm thick pads
380mm slotted rotor

CAR4949 (rear)
PFC 332
20mm thick pads
343mm slotted rotor

What made you go with these over PFC? What are there solving that AP isn't?
Yes, although up front I got the pfc13 pad and the rear rotors are not 343mm, they're 355. I think it's a typo on BW's behalf.

I'm not changing the brakes of the E90, that's the full pfc kit.
I'm replacing the ones on the F80 CS which has pfc front and ap radical rear with the alcon full kit.

Pfc does not have an f8x kit at all. My brother and i spent a few months working in solidworks and 3d printing samples to finally get the e9x front pfc kit, the z54, into the f8x. There it has worked flawlessly, after all, the e90 stroker with the full pfc setup is faster than the CS.
For the rear of the f8x we got the Ap Radicals as many have said they were top shelf kits.
After the 2019 season i was tired of the taper wear and was ready to adapt the pfc rear e9x kit to the f8x, but then the alcons came out and they are plug and play.

What i expect from the alcons is the same performance from the pfc but more durability. Pfc durability was great, but the alcon has a much beefier (and heavier) front rotor so i expect it'll last longer.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 08-02-2020 at 05:20 PM..
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      08-02-2020, 05:34 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRLane View Post
@SYT_Shadow

Are these the Alcons you got from BW?

CR6420 (front)
PFC 01
25mm thick pads
380mm slotted rotor

CAR4949 (rear)
PFC 332
20mm thick pads
343mm slotted rotor

What made you go with these over PFC? What are there solving that AP isn't?
Yes, although up front I got the pfc13 pad and the rear rotors are not 343mm, they're 355. I think it's a typo on BW's behalf.

I'm not changing the brakes of the E90, that's the full pfc kit.
I'm replacing the ones on the F80 CS which has pfc front and ap radical rear with the alcon full kit.

Pfc does not have an f8x kit at all. My brother and i spent a few months working in solidworks and 3d printing samples to finally get the e9x front pfc kit, the z54, into the f8x. There it has worked flawlessly, after all, the e90 stroker with the full pfc setup is faster than the CS.
For the rear of the f8x we got the Ap Radicals as many have said they were top shelf kits.
After the 2019 season i was tired of the taper wear and was ready to adapt the pfc rear e9x kit to the f8x, but then the alcons came out and they are plug and play.

What i expect from the alcons is the same performance from the pfc but more durability. Pfc durability was great, but the alcon has a much beefier (and heavier) front rotor so i expect it'll last longer.
Thanks, Looking forward to your experience after hands on testing!
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      08-02-2020, 07:49 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
So... you get pad taper and rotate your pads to solve it?
That is not 'flawless'. It is clearly a flaw that requires you to perform additional work to solve.

On my PFC kit I put a set of pads on and don't touch them again until they are worn, and they wear properly. That is what I call flawless. Flawless = absence of flaws

Every single time someone performs work on a car, whether it's removing wheels or pads or whatever, there is possibility for error.


The amount of taper on the Ap RadiCal kit is what I'd expect from base stoptech brakes. If the brakes cost 2k I'd think it's pretty bad. Costing 4k it is unacceptable.

Some people may feel double-dutying a car is too extreme, but that's the whole point of the top-shelf brake kits. And it's something at least one other kit can just shrug off like it nothing happened.
To be fair, in your photo here it looks like you have a bit of taper going on too.
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      08-02-2020, 08:07 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36clubracer View Post
To be fair, in your photo here it looks like you have a bit of taper going on too.
That photo is the pads that came out of the ap kits.

The pfc pads are flat. I have every pad i've ever used. Between every pfc pad put together i have less taper than 4 pads out of the ap kit.
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      08-02-2020, 11:11 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
That photo is the pads that came out of the ap kits.

The pfc pads are flat. I have every pad i've ever used. Between every pfc pad put together i have less taper than 4 pads out of the ap kit.
Gotcha, I misunderstood the picture.
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      08-03-2020, 02:46 PM   #102
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I put together a quick video on the MCS 4way high/low speed adjustments as I hadn't seen it shown anywhere else. I specifically showed the rear shocks as its a pretty trick mechanism that MCS designed.

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      08-03-2020, 02:50 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36clubracer View Post
I put together a quick video on the MCS 4way high/low speed adjustments as I hadn't seen it shown anywhere else. I specifically showed the rear shocks as its a pretty trick mechanism that MCS designed.
very nice, it's the same setup as the 2WNR to adjust comp and reb
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      08-03-2020, 07:15 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
very nice, it's the same setup as the 2WNR to adjust comp and reb
One of my favorite things about them is that both adjustments are right there in the same place AND you don't have to lay under the car to change anything which to me is a very nice perk.
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      08-03-2020, 11:10 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
very nice, it's the same setup as the 2WNR to adjust comp and reb
I hadn't seen anywhere that documented the high/low speed twist knob on the rears along with the fact it moves the adjuster up and down is a pretty impressive bit of engineering.

I'm dropping the car off on Wednesday for install but won't be able to pick it up for about a week. I wish I had the time to do it myself right now but with my schedule that is not happening. Either way, I can't wait!
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      08-04-2020, 06:00 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36clubracer View Post
I hadn't seen anywhere that documented the high/low speed twist knob on the rears along with the fact it moves the adjuster up and down is a pretty impressive bit of engineering.

I'm dropping the car off on Wednesday for install but won't be able to pick it up for about a week. I wish I had the time to do it myself right now but with my schedule that is not happening. Either way, I can't wait!
It's not exactly the same on the 2WNR....no fancy knob that moves the wheel up and down, you just push on the center pin and it pops to the UP position. But same concept is what I think was meant in that you have a single knob to do both compression and rebound.
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      08-04-2020, 07:32 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36clubracer View Post
I hadn't seen anywhere that documented the high/low speed twist knob on the rears along with the fact it moves the adjuster up and down is a pretty impressive bit of engineering.

I'm dropping the car off on Wednesday for install but won't be able to pick it up for about a week. I wish I had the time to do it myself right now but with my schedule that is not happening. Either way, I can't wait!
It's nice isn't it? Very fancy.

To clarify, this is the design of the 2WNR on the F8X generation, not the E9X
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      08-28-2020, 12:44 PM   #108
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The MCS 4 ways have been installed. Yes its stiff, but its honestly not bad at all. I've driven it a handful of times on my work commute 25 miles each way and its been a joy to drive even with shitty CA roads.

I did a bunch of dialing of the shock settings so far for street I landed on this -

Front Rebound HS - 8
Front Rebond LS - 8

Front Compression HS - 9
Front Compression LS - 9

Rear Rebound HS - 8
Rear Rebound LS - 8

Rear Compression HS - 8
Rear Compression LS - 8

These are a bit different than what BW recommended. I figure once I get on track I'll likely turn these up.

Spring rates are -

6" - 800 # Front
8" - 1100 # Rear (divorced)

Also at the same time I installed -

Hotchkis sway bars set to full stiff up front and full soft out back to start
Solid rear subframe bushings
Front control arm bushings
Rear lower control arm bushings
Bimmerworld performance engine mounts (stock were already tearing @62k miles)

It is an amazingly drastic change from before. I had to completely re-adjust my expectations of what the car could do from the stock shocks and H&R race springs from before.
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      08-28-2020, 12:52 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36clubracer View Post
The MCS 4 ways have been installed. Yes its stiff, but its honestly not bad at all. I've driven it a handful of times on my work commute 25 miles each way and its been a joy to drive even with shitty CA roads.

I did a bunch of dialing of the shock settings so far for street I landed on this -

Front Rebound HS - 8
Front Rebond LS - 8

Front Compression HS - 9
Front Compression LS - 9

Rear Rebound HS - 8
Rear Rebound LS - 8

Rear Compression HS - 8
Rear Compression LS - 8

These are a bit different than what BW recommended. I figure once I get on track I'll likely turn these up.

Spring rates are -

6" - 800 # Front
8" - 1100 # Rear (divorced)

Also at the same time I installed -

Hotchkis sway bars set to full stiff up front and full soft out back to start
Solid rear subframe bushings
Front control arm bushings
Rear lower control arm bushings
Bimmerworld performance engine mounts (stock were already tearing @62k miles)

It is an amazingly drastic change from before. I had to completely re-adjust my expectations of what the car could do from the stock shocks and H&R race springs from before.
Sweet! Just like my setup except 3W vs 4W

For highway driving I run the HS comp at 0. Perfect for expansion joints etc
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      08-28-2020, 02:32 PM   #110
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I want 3-ways only because you say they are that much better than the 2WNR and I'm already very very happy with them.
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