Suspension upgrade

[divadp17]

Eventually I want to do a bbk but on my next run at Laguna I'm gonna try the cobalt pads. They are really pricey but everyone on forum rave about how good they are.
Also going to install hotchkis adjustable sway bar kit with turner rear solid subframe bushings. Cant wait to notice the difference

Also just installed rtd v4 mini shifter and boy was it worth the money. It got rid of the clunky feel, long shift throws, and the slop.

[Chris_PDX]

Cobalts are great, I run them on my E46. The difference between OEM brakes and a BBK is... well on a scale of 1 - 10 it's like 40. On my E46 M3, which is stripped and way lighter, I was destroying OEM rotors every track day. After a full day, they'd cool and crack after just 4-5 track sessions. And I would have to manage brake temps after the first 3-4 laps.

BBK is just.. amazeballs. Full stopping force, every corner, every lap, for 30 minutes straight. Rotors last a year. Pads last 4-5 days. Price is steep, but at the rate I track and was going through parts, I'll be in the green as far as cost savings goes in just under 2 seasons.

[kyippee]

Yup, BBK is nice to have. Even with an entry-level BBK and good pads, I can stomp on them without fade. Pads last about 4-5 days for me, too.

[Chris_PDX]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Yup, BBK is nice to have. Even with an entry-level BBK and good pads, I can stomp on them without fade. Pads last about 4-5 days for me, too.

I can't stomp on them... otherwise it freaks out ABS and locks the fronts. The initial torque is so high, especially on street tires where it overloads the tire grip, my ABS module just wigs right the fuck out. I have to be slower on the initial brake pressure, and full braking force is only at like 50% pedal.

The E92 ABS is so much better in that regards. I need to invest in a motorsport ABS module....

[kyippee]

Wow Chris_PDX either I'm overestimating how hard my "stomp" is or its the ABS module. To be fair, going fully force immediately does make the rear end wiggly and my NT01s cry a little bit. I bet you're running different tires and pads, my PMU999 aren't too crazy in bite

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

I can't stomp on them... otherwise it freaks out ABS and locks the fronts. The initial torque is so high, especially on street tires where it overloads the tire grip, my ABS module just wigs right the fuck out. I have to be slower on the initial brake pressure, and full braking force is only at like 50% pedal.

The E92 ABS is so much better in that regards. I need to invest in a motorsport ABS module....

Just get the CSL tune for the e46.

[Chris_PDX]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Wow Chris_PDX either I'm overestimating how hard my "stomp" is or its the ABS module. To be fair, going fully force immediately does make the rear end wiggly and my NT01s cry a little bit. I bet you're running different tires and pads, my PMU999 aren't too crazy in bite

I run Cobalt XR2 pads and RS4 tires. So my tires are the weakest link in terms of braking.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

Cobalts are great, I run them on my E46. The difference between OEM brakes and a BBK is... well on a scale of 1 - 10 it's like 40. On my E46 M3, which is stripped and way lighter, I was destroying OEM rotors every track day. After a full day, they'd cool and crack after just 4-5 track sessions. And I would have to manage brake temps after the first 3-4 laps.

BBK is just.. amazeballs. Full stopping force, every corner, every lap, for 30 minutes straight. Rotors last a year. Pads last 4-5 days. Price is steep, but at the rate I track and was going through parts, I'll be in the green as far as cost savings goes in just under 2 seasons.

Agreed. There's no way you can keep the OE brakes within a track pad's designed operating temp range. Not unless you drive slow but then what's the point?

BBK is a massive upgrade. Easily good for .5-1 second per hard braking zone. Let's not mention the lower long term costs.

Changing out pads on hot brakes...not fun. I'd miss a session if I waited until they cooled down.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

BBK is a massive upgrade. Easily good for .5-1 second per hard braking zone. Let's not mention the lower long term costs.

I'm assuming that you're comparing the bbk to oem brakes after the track pads have exceeded their temp. window, but that still seems a bit exaggerated.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Agreed. There's no way you can keep the OE brakes within a track pad's designed operating temp range. Not unless you drive slow but then what's the point?

BBK is a massive upgrade. Easily good for .5-1 second per hard braking zone. Let's not mention the lower long term costs.

Changing out pads on hot brakes...not fun. I'd miss a session if I waited until they cooled down.

Lol how do you figure this? Almost every BBK for a car is matched to have near OEM torque values, so unless you're comparing stock brakes with stock pads to a BBK with a higher torque pad this makes zero sense. Assuming equivalent torque brake pads and the same tires the stopping distance will not change, and if it does it would be very minimal. A BBK's real advantage is it's ability to dissipate heat, thus better preventing fade. Pedal feel might improve due to a solid caliper design vs. an OEM floating design, but again, that doesn't affect stopping distance.

[kyippee]

Overheated brakes = longer stopping distance, thus the potential gains to be had. This assumes stock brakes overheat.

I think both of you are thinking the same thing

[Chris_PDX]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Overheated brakes = longer stopping distance, thus the potential gains to be had. This assumes stock brakes overheat.

I think both of you are thinking the same thing

Yeah, in my experience OEM brakes and BBKs will offer similar stopping distances... for 1-2 laps. Then the OEM distances get longer and longer as the OEM components exceed their thermal limits.

The BBK will offer that consistent brake point lap after lap.

[aus]

Question for BBK guys. How low do you run your pads?
Mine are getting a little thin but should last at least 4 more sessions.
Thinking of getting some titanium backing plates. Anyone know who makes them for Stoptech ST60 caliper?
.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

Yeah, in my experience OEM brakes and BBKs will offer similar stopping distances... for 1-2 laps. Then the OEM distances get longer and longer as the OEM components exceed their thermal limits.

The BBK will offer that consistent brake point lap after lap.

My experience: the OEM system with stainless steel lines plus XR1 or XR2 didn't experience any fade. I actually liked it better than Stoptech ST60. However it was possible to spike the pad temp thus momentarily losing brake performance. The only benefits I realized were ease of pad replacement and pad life. This is running BFGR1 or Hoosier R7.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

My experience: the OEM system with stainless steel lines plus XR1 or XR2 didn't experience any fade. I actually liked it better than Stoptech ST60. However it was possible to spike the pad temp thus momentarily losing brake performance. The only benefits I realized were ease of pad replacement and pad life. This is running BFGR1 or Hoosier R7.

Interesting. My PFC08 pads definitely fade after a few laps in PB territory, and then I'm consistently 1.5 seconds slower per lap. This is with more than half pad life remaining and on not so grippy NT01. If the front pads are getting thinner, then the fade comes sooner and is worse.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Interesting. My PFC08 pads definitely fade after a few laps in PB territory, and then I'm consistently 1.5 seconds slower per lap. This is with more than half pad life remaining and on not so grippy NT01. If the front pads are getting thinner, then the fade comes sooner and is worse.

Maybe you are buying the wrong Brake pads (you are not the only one). Try Cobalt Friction. I ran XR1 with the E92 M3 OEM brakes because it had a higher MOT than the XR2. I am guessing XR2 should be a better match for you running the NT01. But i would leave that up to the experts.
*Edit. I noticed I mentioned also using XR2 in a previous post. The XR1 was used with the OEM brakes and the XR2 have been used with the Stoptech ST60 front BBK. I would like to try the XR1 with the Stoptech kit but AR didn't have them in stock last minute.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Maybe you are buying the wrong Brake pads (you are not the only one). Try Cobalt Friction. I ran XR1 with the E92 M3 OEM brakes because it had a higher MOT than the XR2. I am guessing XR2 should be a better match for you running the NT01. But i would leave that up to the experts.
*Edit. I noticed I mentioned also using XR2 in a previous post. The XR1 was used with the OEM brakes and the XR2 have been used with the Stoptech ST60 front BBK. I would like to try the XR1 with the Stoptech kit but AR didn't have them in stock last minute.

What is the pad life like? I run every week during the season so I may just need to bite the bullet and get the PFC kit with the foot thick pads.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

What is the pad life like? I run every week during the season so I may just need to bite the bullet and get the PFC kit with the foot thick pads.

I've been running the XR2's as of recently with OE rotors. Seems like they've been pretty good so far. Only reason I'm wanting a BBK is ease of pad swaps. That's it.

[gmx]

Exactly the only reason I'm doing BBK, easier swaps. The clip is ok after some practice. Looking forward to no more slider bolts!

[divadp17]

Hey guys so one of the next mod I plan to install is the solid bushing for rear sub frame and front and rear adjustable hotchki sway bars.

I just wanted to know if the sway bars are worth the money and if it makes a noticeable difference for the track or if I should use that money to get something else that will improve the handling of the car.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by davitopark

Hey guys so one of the next mod I plan to install is the solid bushing for rear sub frame and front and rear adjustable hotchki sway bars.

I just wanted to know if the sway bars are worth the money and if it makes a noticeable difference for the track or if I should use that money to get something else that will improve the handling of the car.

Yes, they are 100% worth it. They aren't a very expensive mod and add quick handling balance adjustability. I have them on my car and I'm very happy with them.

[Chris_PDX]

Originally Posted by aus

Question for BBK guys. How low do you run your pads?
Mine are getting a little thin but should last at least 4 more sessions.
Thinking of getting some titanium backing plates. Anyone know who makes them for Stoptech ST60 caliper?
.

My E46 M3 is 3300 pounds with half a tank and me in it (I'm big and fat), so weighs less than the E92. With XR2 pads on my AP Racing RadiCal 5000 BBK up front my front pads last about 4 days. They wear quicker as they get lower obviously (less mass = less thermal efficiency).