BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-10-2018, 08:08 AM   #23
project e46m3
Lieutenant
project e46m3's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
585
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 CS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alpharetta, GA

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3 CS  [0.00]
Those NGK 95770 plugs are a step colder than the 4471 correct?
__________________
Current: '18 F80 M3 CS San Marino Blue
Gone: '13 E92 M3 Alpine White / Black & Fox Red / DCT / ZCP
Gone: '01 E46 M3 Jet Black / Imola Red / 6spd
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2018, 09:33 AM   #24
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by project e46m3 View Post
Those NGK 95770 plugs are a step colder than the 4471 correct?
Yes, its what n54 and n55 guys run i believe. a local 700whp 335i runs them on an .18 gap.
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 07:30 PM   #25
project e46m3
Lieutenant
project e46m3's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
585
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 CS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alpharetta, GA

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3 CS  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnEastvold View Post
Yes, its what n54 and n55 guys run i believe. a local 700whp 335i runs them on an .18 gap.
I would go this route and gap the plugs to oem specs. BMW has gotten very clever and electrically measures the spark plug gap to detect knocking, as well as misfires and bad combustion. BMW calls this "ion flow technology." Burning fuel causes ionization, and BMW measures ionization by measuring plug electrode resistance.
__________________
Current: '18 F80 M3 CS San Marino Blue
Gone: '13 E92 M3 Alpine White / Black & Fox Red / DCT / ZCP
Gone: '01 E46 M3 Jet Black / Imola Red / 6spd
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2018, 07:52 PM   #26
pbonsalb
Major General
1960
Rep
6,181
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

I have been curious about the plug coldness and gap on the S65, due to the ionic sending spark knock control. Not sure if other models used it.
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2018, 08:27 PM   #27
schnell1982
Captain
308
Rep
933
Posts

Drives: FAST
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (0)

Spark plug torque spec is important as well. Do not just tighten the plug thinking it is tight enough. The spec is on every box for a reason.
Choosing the correct heat range is called Thermal Performance as spark plugs can not create heat, they only remove heat.
This will depend on the operating range.
Choose your plugs wisely
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2018, 10:01 PM   #28
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell1982 View Post
Spark plug torque spec is important as well. Do not just tighten the plug thinking it is tight enough. The spec is on every box for a reason.
Choosing the correct heat range is called Thermal Performance as spark plugs can not create heat, they only remove heat.
This will depend on the operating range.
Choose your plugs wisely
Yeah truthfully i dont know too much about plugs. Went off the word of my shop i go to. They use these plugs at a .22 gap for a lot of their supercharged M3ís and have had no issue. Im just the only one running E85 in mine. So far so good.


On a side note. Got the 10/11 psi pulley and belt on the way. Bought off someone who is dow grading to the 650 pulley. So ill be excited to put it on
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2018, 10:55 AM   #29
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

This is the pulley i will be putting on my car. i emailed vf and they said it was a pulley they made for a one off build they did. very excited to see the end result of it. i just hope the clutch can handle it... the guy im buying it off says his P3 gauge says 10.5psi-11 at redline and afrs were in the 12 range at WOT till redline, he also sent me a video. I anticipate will be over 450wtq since at 7psi im at 420wtq...
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
      02-22-2018, 05:18 PM   #30
azndrunk74
Major
434
Rep
1,266
Posts

Drives: Frozen Black F10 M5
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (13)

I was with Marcus when he went to ship the pulley out to you. The car was a beast when I drove it with the pulley on, you're going to have fun lol.
__________________
2014 Frozen Black F10 M5 | Agency Power HFC Downpipes | RK Autowerks CF Intakes | Open Flash Stage 1 Tune | KW HAS kit | 3D Design Lip | 3D Design Skirts | 3D Design Spoiler | IND Front & Rear Reflectors | IND M5 Badge | M Performance Steering Wheel | M Performance CF Shift Knob | Pedal Haus Pedals & Paddles | Burger Tuning 3.75" Black Tips |
Appreciate 1
      02-23-2018, 05:23 PM   #31
BPMSport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
BPMSport's Avatar
United_States
2109
Rep
7,113
Posts


Drives: Harrop M3 / F10 M5 / F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2000 BMW M5  [0.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [0.00]
2008 BMW M3  [3.75]
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M5  [0.00]
Nice results - but you are out of fuel (judging by the AFR jump between 7-8k at redline in one of the charts. You need fueling modifications to support that amount of E85 at that boost pressure level.

We would definitely recommend against bumping to 10 PSI and running anywhere near the amount of E85 that you have been. Both running that amount of E85, and running 10psi in stock internals, are asking for trouble.

Those green injectors and the stock pump can only go so far, and you do not want to run out of fuel on top.

If you log the car and approach this methodically, you'll end up with a better result.
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Appreciate 3
      02-23-2018, 07:49 PM   #32
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPMSport View Post
Nice results - but you are out of fuel (judging by the AFR jump between 7-8k at redline in one of the charts. You need fueling modifications to support that amount of E85 at that boost pressure level.

We would definitely recommend against bumping to 10 PSI and running anywhere near the amount of E85 that you have been. Both running that amount of E85, and running 10psi in stock internals, are asking for trouble.

Those green injectors and the stock pump can only go so far, and you do not want to run out of fuel on top.

If you log the car and approach this methodically, you'll end up with a better result.
if i data log it and send you the info would you guys be able to tweek the tune at all? even at the current 7psi? the only thing that i need to redo for sure is dyno with a good afr reader. the dyno sheet that has blown plugs i ran on full e85 too, and came back at 12.05 at redline so that dyno picked up the good afrs, just numbers were everywhere because of the plugs. so i plan to take it to that same dyno and re dyno there and get a real afr and dyno reading before i up psi... i just wish fuel system upgrades were more readily available on this.
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2018, 11:12 PM   #33
Properstyle
Major
380
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: 2011 e90 ZCP m3
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Miramar, FL

iTrader: (0)

On the new zl1 if you do upper and lower pulley on full E85 the car doesnít have the fuel to support it on the direct port injection. What those guys do one of my good friends included is run full E85 and meth. The larger meth nozzle up front acts like another injector. His car made 741whp 781wtq
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2018, 11:42 PM   #34
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Properstyle View Post
On the new zl1 if you do upper and lower pulley on full E85 the car doesnít have the fuel to support it on the direct port injection. What those guys do one of my good friends included is run full E85 and meth. The larger meth nozzle up front acts like another injector. His car made 741whp 781wtq
I dont really know how to run meth on this car. Seems really risky. Anyone have a good insight for howbits setup? Ive heard of snow performance and stuff. Just dont know if it needs to be tunes in or what
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2018, 06:43 AM   #35
pbonsalb
Major General
1960
Rep
6,181
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

If you are using meth for fueling and tuning for it with no safeguards like a pop off valve to dump boost, you want the best system you can find. One company makes expensive throttle bodies drilled for meth nozzles so you get direct port injection. Canít remember the name but you can find it if you search. But any tuner who tunes for you wonít take responsibility if you blow up the motor.

Aquamist makes nice stuff. It is what I use though not on a supercharged E9xM3. You can buy direct port manifolds and other parts from the English side of the company. Not sure Howerton, their US distributor, sells that piece.

I would not trust my S65 on boost to a couple of nozzles spraying into the air filter or intake pipe. Dispersion might not be good enough. Fine for supplemental cooling or octane safety but not if the tune depends on them.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2018, 06:56 AM   #36
Properstyle
Major
380
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: 2011 e90 ZCP m3
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Miramar, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
If you are using meth for fueling and tuning for it with no safeguards like a pop off valve to dump boost, you want the best system you can find. One company makes expensive throttle bodies drilled for meth nozzles so you get direct port injection. Canít remember the name but you can find it if you search. But any tuner who tunes for you wonít take responsibility if you blow up the motor.

Aquamist makes nice stuff. It is what I use though not on a supercharged E9xM3. You can buy direct port manifolds and other parts from the English side of the company. Not sure Howerton, their US distributor, sells that piece.

I would not trust my S65 on boost to a couple of nozzles spraying into the air filter or intake pipe. Dispersion might not be good enough. Fine for supplemental cooling or octane safety but not if the tune depends on them.

You can over think it but people have been doing this for years. Since th Chevy z06 c7 came out as that car is restrict to below 700whp on E85 due to it having a direct port fuel system. This is nothing new. Itís no different then your fuel pump taking a shit in a 5th gear pull and letís not act like bmw donít have fuel pump module issues lol. Step up alerts and maintain the system should have no issue. In our case spraying the meth right after the blower or in the front end of th Manifold it would have no choice but to disperse as it hitting compressed charged air that still has to route in to s manifold. Intercooler.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2018, 07:16 AM   #37
pbonsalb
Major General
1960
Rep
6,181
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

I donít believe I am overthinking it. I have been using meth systems on forced induction cars since I bought my first Aquamist in 2001, but tune dependent with no safeguard is a risk. I have one car with 2 nozzles in the air filter and a flow sensor for safeguard that is tuned for the meth and another car with a nozzle in each runner with a flow sensor for safeguard that is not tuned for the meth.

As long as you understand how it works, how to do it right and reliably and are willing to take a risk, itís great. Just do it right to minimize your risk. In addition to potential tuning issues, meth is highly flammable and most installs are not as securely done as a factory fuel system ó some are using uncovered plastic lines with push lock fittings snaked under or through the car and around the engine bay.

Iíll be putting a system on my 991.1TT when I finally buy the car, but will do it right.
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2018, 07:33 PM   #38
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Just got the new vf pulley in the mail. Showing the size comparison to the vf650 pulley(bottom pulley)
Attached Images
  
__________________
2008 BMW M3 Coupe 6mt - VF-Engineering with Advanced fuel dynamics PROFLEX COMMANDER at 10psi 620/435@7800rm
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2018, 09:09 PM   #39
schnell1982
Captain
308
Rep
933
Posts

Drives: FAST
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (0)

Awesome car you have. Thanks for sharing all the detailed information.
On your ECU tune, are you running the E85 tune from BPM or Gintani ?
And is the tune re-calibrated recently after ? I was trying to understand what brand tune you have and when you crated data logs to re-tune after the supercharger installation ?
Also, Fuel-It makes performance fuel pumps. You might want to look into their stuff for your fueling needs
Keep the great progress
Appreciate 1
      02-26-2018, 09:14 PM   #40
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell1982 View Post
Awesome car you have. Thanks for sharing all the detailed information.
On your ECU tune, are you running the E85 tune from BPM or Gintani ?
And is the tune re-calibrated recently after ? I was trying to understand what brand tune you have and when you crated data logs to re-tune ?
Also, Fuel-It makes performance fuel pumps. You might want to look into their stuff for your fueling needs
Keep the great progress
Hey thanks, im running a vf620 93 bpm tune currently, i still have on the 620 pulley. I have the flex fuel sensor and run full E85 on it. Havent had any issue from it. Should soon have the new pulley and belt on and im guessing around 10psi with it. I am kinda worried about fueling so i might dyno on 93 and see what it makes and then go to a 50/50 93/e85 mix and dyno then go full e85. Currently i face the issue of if my clutch will be able to handle the tq. Right now after a pull or two the pedal will go really soft and the after i slow it down itll come back to normal. So i anticipate that is on its way out.
__________________
2008 BMW M3 Coupe 6mt - VF-Engineering with Advanced fuel dynamics PROFLEX COMMANDER at 10psi 620/435@7800rm
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2018, 07:35 PM   #41
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Little update. Just got the smaller pulley on using an inch smaller belt. Im on 93 right now since i didnt have access to E85 and on the drive home i did some pulls and WOW. It feels faster than my 7psi on full E85. I will be getting some E85 in my tank here shortly and will do some pulls and see how she does
__________________
2008 BMW M3 Coupe 6mt - VF-Engineering with Advanced fuel dynamics PROFLEX COMMANDER at 10psi 620/435@7800rm
Appreciate 1
      03-03-2018, 08:46 AM   #42
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)




Here is a pull i did with the new pulley
__________________
2008 BMW M3 Coupe 6mt - VF-Engineering with Advanced fuel dynamics PROFLEX COMMANDER at 10psi 620/435@7800rm
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2018, 11:11 AM   #43
JohnEastvold
Private First Class
59
Rep
170
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (0)

Couple shots with the new pulley on. Went with a inch smaller belt than that my vf620 had (dayco 5060835).
Attached Images
    
__________________
2008 BMW M3 Coupe 6mt - VF-Engineering with Advanced fuel dynamics PROFLEX COMMANDER at 10psi 620/435@7800rm
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2018, 09:37 PM   #44
Mit_Boost
Captain
Germany
126
Rep
693
Posts

Drives: E90 335
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

In before it pops. Like BPM stated, that last dyno sheet your AFRs went lean really quickly after 7k and it's most likely because you're out of fueling. Gintani supposedly has an E85 fueling system that supports full E85 up to 12 psi.

__________________

Results >
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST