BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-20-2019, 02:25 PM   #89
Samo6556
Private First Class
82
Rep
163
Posts

Drives: 09 BMW M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Barrington, il

iTrader: (0)

Does this 4.6L require sleeving the block?
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2019, 02:47 PM   #90
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3399
Rep
5,231
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samo6556 View Post
Does this 4.6L require sleeving the block?
Definitely NOT sleeved. I would never sleeve an S65.

If 800whp ESS cars run without sleeves I can't see the advantage for a NA build like this

The block was taken to a company that can handle alusil boring and honing

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 07-21-2019 at 10:49 AM..
Appreciate 3
jcolley353.00

      07-20-2019, 09:21 PM   #91
tweny
Enlisted Member
tweny's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

roughly, how much does it cost?
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2019, 10:24 PM   #92
IMG
IMG's Avatar
United_States
420
Rep
7,485
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samo6556 View Post
Does this 4.6L require sleeving the block?
I've yet to see a sleeved s65 running. Rear plenty of posts about sleeved blocks being assembled and no finished product.
Appreciate 3
      07-21-2019, 11:51 PM   #93
Scharbag
Captain
Scharbag's Avatar
Canada
721
Rep
841
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Victoria

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E92 M3  [0.00]
Quick question:

What bore and stroke did you go with? Do you know what the rotating mass is relative to the factory rotating mass?

This is a really interesting thread. Thank you for sharing!!
__________________

2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, Dinan Stuff
A wise friend told me "I stopped trying to make a slow car go fast. Instead, I bought a fast car." Sound advice.
Appreciate 1
      07-22-2019, 09:33 AM   #94
IamFODI
Private
38
Rep
73
Posts

Drives: 2008 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Do you know what the rotating mass is relative to the factory rotating mass?
Also would like to know this!
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2019, 09:37 AM   #95
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3399
Rep
5,231
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Quick question:

What bore and stroke did you go with? Do you know what the rotating mass is relative to the factory rotating mass?

This is a really interesting thread. Thank you for sharing!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamFODI View Post
Also would like to know this!
Sorry guys I don't have that level of details

I recall it's the 4.4 GTS style crank plus boring to get to the 4.6
Appreciate 0
      07-22-2019, 10:09 AM   #96
jcolley
Lieutenant
jcolley's Avatar
United_States
353
Rep
408
Posts

Drives: 2008 E61 M5
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Maine

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Quick question:

What bore and stroke did you go with? Do you know what the rotating mass is relative to the factory rotating mass?

This is a really interesting thread. Thank you for sharing!!
Balancing a set of rods this week for an S85 stroker, I'll throw a few OEM rods on to compare end weights.
Appreciate 3
SYT_Shadow3398.50
IamFODI38.00
Scharbag720.50

      08-05-2019, 05:51 PM   #97
JohnV
Registered
0
Rep
1
Posts

Drives: Bmw e92
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Hello

I am new here because I need help. I'm a rallycross driver from belgium
And I want to build a s65 v8 4.8 race engine.
Where can I go best for advice and the products.
I need the stroker kit 4.8, dry sump system,
Cams for really much torque and everything that's is need.

Remember it is for a race engine. So I can use fuel what I want and don't need vanos. I can go all the way but only atmospheric.
What are your experiences and relations or contacts,
Where I get the wricht advice and where can I buy what I need?
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2019, 06:42 PM   #98
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3399
Rep
5,231
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnV View Post
Hello

I am new here because I need help. I'm a rallycross driver from belgium
And I want to build a s65 v8 4.8 race engine.
Where can I go best for advice and the products.
I need the stroker kit 4.8, dry sump system,
Cams for really much torque and everything that's is need.

Remember it is for a race engine. So I can use fuel what I want and don't need vanos. I can go all the way but only atmospheric.
What are your experiences and relations or contacts,
Where I get the wricht advice and where can I buy what I need?
Cool. My parents live in Belgium

I'm not sure how you could build a 4.8L S65. If you use the M3 GTS crank and then bore the block out to the max you end up with a 4.7L engine.

Cams you can go to the same 292 I used or ask Schrick whether they have anything bigger that work without vanos. Looking at my power curves it is clear the engine would be happy with larger cams than 292!

If you can use any fuel then you can bump the compression which will give you some hp as well.

I suggest you google imgmotorsport and get in touch with them.
I recall there's someone that used to be on this forum that developed a dry sump system for the S65
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2019, 06:55 PM   #99
jcolley
Lieutenant
jcolley's Avatar
United_States
353
Rep
408
Posts

Drives: 2008 E61 M5
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Maine

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnV View Post
Hello

I am new here because I need help. I'm a rallycross driver from belgium
And I want to build a s65 v8 4.8 race engine.
Where can I go best for advice and the products.
I need the stroker kit 4.8, dry sump system,
Cams for really much torque and everything that's is need.

Remember it is for a race engine. So I can use fuel what I want and don't need vanos. I can go all the way but only atmospheric.
What are your experiences and relations or contacts,
Where I get the wricht advice and where can I buy what I need?
Why not KMS Race Engines in Holland?
Appreciate 1
      08-06-2019, 04:01 PM   #100
alfalfa
New Member
5
Rep
6
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Munich

iTrader: (0)

In Europe you can go with KK Automobile aka Motorsport24.
They are expensive but if you really want an 4.8 S65 they know how to build this.
Due to the higher stroke compared to the 83mm crank you have to do some special work at the block and not just bore it.
If you really want a dry sump the only solution is BMW Motorsport in my opinion. It's around 18k for the S65.
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2019, 08:22 PM   #101
drrust
First Lieutenant
drrust's Avatar
122
Rep
387
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 DCT Sedan
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Cincinnati

iTrader: (0)

Turner is selling a 4.4l racing engine that already has a dry sump. That maybe a good starting point.
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2019, 04:46 AM   #102
Rochen_00
Private
Rochen_00's Avatar
30
Rep
77
Posts

Drives: M3 e92
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Catalonia

iTrader: (0)

Incredible construction, it has to be brutal to feel all that potential of an N / A engine.

Without building a stroker, what could be the limit of the 4.0 S65 engine, without increasing displacement? I would like to maintain the displacement, Im thinking of mounting Karbonius admission and I think that next to the exhaust akrapovic evo line and MS pulley kit would be a good combination. The next step would be to include about 292 Schrick cams? Leave the akra catles line? type gt4 ...

Regards
__________________
Instagram: @m_rochen

Alpinemss Tuned | Tecnocraft E9X ///M3 Envy Intake System | MS Pulleys | Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust | Ohlins Road&track
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2019, 05:16 AM   #103
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3399
Rep
5,231
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochen_00 View Post
Incredible construction, it has to be brutal to feel all that potential of an N / A engine.

Without building a stroker, what could be the limit of the 4.0 S65 engine, without increasing displacement? I would like to maintain the displacement, Im thinking of mounting Karbonius admission and I think that next to the exhaust akrapovic evo line and MS pulley kit would be a good combination. The next step would be to include about 292 Schrick cams? Leave the akra catles line? type gt4 ...

Regards
It feels incredible to have so many horses in a NA high specific output engine. The F80 CS is also very fast but feels like it has all the passion of a vacuum cleaner in comparison.

I think a high flow cat or catless exhaust, plus karbonius, plus 292 cams would yield lots of horses.
I've been thinking of adding 292s to my E92 but am not in a huge hurry, one thing at a time.

No one has tried this but the more I look at my dyno graphs the more convinced I am that you need 292s for the stock engine and even bigger cams for strokers.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 08-07-2019 at 05:28 AM..
Appreciate 3
CSBM51206.50
///Mobbin692.00

      08-07-2019, 06:49 AM   #104
TomHudson
Captain
447
Rep
884
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochen_00 View Post
Incredible construction, it has to be brutal to feel all that potential of an N / A engine.

Without building a stroker, what could be the limit of the 4.0 S65 engine, without increasing displacement? I would like to maintain the displacement, Im thinking of mounting Karbonius admission and I think that next to the exhaust akrapovic evo line and MS pulley kit would be a good combination. The next step would be to include about 292 Schrick cams? Leave the akra catles line? type gt4 ...

Regards
Rear diff ....
Appreciate 0
      08-07-2019, 09:07 PM   #105
gte869h
Upgraded from e46fanatics
gte869h's Avatar
United_States
2
Rep
34
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW M3 6MT ZCP
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

Congrats SYT on the build. Ive got myself a 4.6 stroker and yes its hard to stay tame on the street. The mustang guys hate it and my Stoptech trophy kit makes them shamed when slowing down.

Appreciate you sharing the build. Ive got 292 cams going in next and VANOS actuators being modded to eliminate interference concern with the added lift and duration. This and 4.10 gears wrap my build. Super stoked you saw strong gains. Let me know if youre ever in Miami, Im buying the cuban coffee. Cheers bro!
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow3398.50

      08-07-2019, 11:53 PM   #106
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3399
Rep
5,231
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gte869h View Post
Congrats SYT on the build. Ive got myself a 4.6 stroker and yes its hard to stay tame on the street. The mustang guys hate it and my Stoptech trophy kit makes them shamed when slowing down.

Appreciate you sharing the build. Ive got 292 cams going in next and VANOS actuators being modded to eliminate interference concern with the added lift and duration. This and 4.10 gears wrap my build. Super stoked you saw strong gains. Let me know if youre ever in Miami, Im buying the cuban coffee. Cheers bro!
Sweet!!! I hope you have a dyno of the current situation so we can compare vs the same build with 292s. I think those are a key component.
Note that I did not have to do anything to vanos to allow these cams to work.

It would be awesome to add that dyno to this thread

I'll hit you up if I'm visiting down there! Cheers!
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2019, 12:43 AM   #107
TimberWolf_3063
Dem Ingenr ist nix zu schwr!
TimberWolf_3063's Avatar
Canada
19
Rep
89
Posts

Drives: 2010 E92 M3 - DCT, EDC
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Victoria, BC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
This is fantastic news! 500 whp on pump gas and a car that can (hopefully) be driven on the street without issues...the dream has come true. I have been considering a NA stroker build myself - reliability is the desired outcome over ultimate power. But seeing this, that may slide the other way a bit

I wonder what this could do with rear-end gears and a CF driveshaft? I don't think I'll ever see the top speed of this car - but a bit more acceleration is never unwanted!

Great work SYT_Shadow, looking forward to further discussion and updates!
__________________
"Ah, what music! They could never have imagined it, those pioneers that invented the automobile...that it would possess us like this, and our imaginations, and our dreams. You see, men love women, but even more than that, men love CARS!" - Alexander Fermor-Hesketh, 3rd Baron Hesketh

Last edited by TimberWolf_3063; 08-08-2019 at 12:51 AM..
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow3398.50

      08-08-2019, 05:42 AM   #108
Rochen_00
Private
Rochen_00's Avatar
30
Rep
77
Posts

Drives: M3 e92
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Catalonia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
Rear diff ....
What do you recommend to improve the rear diff?
__________________
Instagram: @m_rochen

Alpinemss Tuned | Tecnocraft E9X ///M3 Envy Intake System | MS Pulleys | Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust | Ohlins Road&track
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2019, 06:21 AM   #109
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
3399
Rep
5,231
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimberWolf_3063 View Post
This is fantastic news! 500 whp on pump gas and a car that can (hopefully) be driven on the street without issues...the dream has come true. I have been considering a NA stroker build myself - reliability is the desired outcome over ultimate power. But seeing this, that may slide the other way a bit

I wonder what this could do with rear-end gears and a CF driveshaft? I don't think I'll ever see the top speed of this car - but a bit more acceleration is never unwanted!

Great work SYT_Shadow, looking forward to further discussion and updates!
Yes, perhaps that is the best part, 500whp on pump gas with no weird needs. I take it to work when I want, etc. It's a blast!

I could not trust Izzy & Corry's work more, I've never seen that level of attention to detail. The E90 will continue to be double-tracked hard and if there are any issues I'll post them here.

The CF driveshaft is a thought but I've seen the numbers and doubt it generates more than a couple hp.
The car is still on a stock diff but when it dies we'll get a built one with a slightly lower ratio.

As it sits now I'm sure it has a 2 minutes flat at the Glen in it.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2019, 08:48 AM   #110
OG Shark
Captain
438
Rep
614
Posts

Drives: Sideways ~~~
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
hehe yes. The CS doesn't get dragged anymore by 991.1/.2 GT3s/RS but it will be a real pleasure to keep up to them in the straights, as if you can do that they it's quite easy to outbrake and outcorner them.

I got a 'shake' sticker for the E90 and the CS will get a 'and bake' one when my brother and I are driving
Shake & bake is only allowed if bake runs Mike Honcho & 47 on the side of the car. However the full spread will not be required out of respect for everyone with eyes. I will neither confirm nor deny this origin for me locking up #47 for NASA Texas...

Do you think the do88 bits will still handle the cooling sufficiently? Certainly an awesome package, curious to see how it performs in your car now with the stroker.

This build is so awesome - definitely sold me on going this route after I'm finished with my E92 in class competition. Even will have the karbonius intake sitting in storage waiting for it. Not sure you can get any more fun then this on the track outside of somehow a E92 GT2 magically finding it's way into the garage. On the street - just wow, perfect build.
__________________

Racing team... because HPDE team doesn't have quite the same ring to it...
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow3398.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST