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      09-22-2018, 11:32 PM   #45
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And then this happens. FFS.
brutal... and you guys don't even have an actual summer either.
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      09-28-2018, 04:50 PM   #46
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Update: Ran 2 tanks of Husky 94 with Sea Foam motor treatment in each tank. Also ran a can of Sea Foam spray through the plenum. Once all that was done, I re-flashed to AlpineMSS 91 octane Stage I tune. So far, knock on wood, so good. The knock seems to be gone when lugging the engine and I no longer have any knock over 4000RPM.

So thanks again for the advice.

One last shout out to Alex - he was an awesome help!

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      11-10-2018, 02:08 AM   #47
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Updating an open item - shop found the old injectors that came off my car months ago and finally had them flow tested; see attached pic of the shop readout below for results. in a nutshell, the original injectors were def in bad shape, with 2 of them operating at capacity as low as ~60%. no wonder I was getting bad knocking/pre-detonation under many different driving situations.

Just to share. If anyone is also experiencing the metallic engine knocking/pre detonation noise at low speed or when getting on the gas to push the car, and has tried replacing the cheaper items such as spark plugs, coils, low pressure fuel sensors, etc, fouled injectors could be the real culprit
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      11-10-2018, 12:23 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamfoo View Post
Updating an open item - shop found the old injectors that came off my car months ago and finally had them flow tested; see attached pic of the shop readout below for results. in a nutshell, the original injectors were def in bad shape, with 2 of them operating at capacity as low as ~60%. no wonder I was getting bad knocking/pre-detonation under many different driving situations.

Just to share. If anyone is also experiencing the metallic engine knocking/pre detonation noise at low speed or when getting on the gas to push the car, and has tried replacing the cheaper items such as spark plugs, coils, low pressure fuel sensors, etc, fouled injectors could be the real culprit
Cleaning performed on existing injectors with how many miles/years use? Super exciting to see that your vendor was able to get the flows so closely balanced.
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      11-11-2018, 02:39 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
I took a video, then realized the camera was pointed squarely at my crotch... So I ripped out just the audio

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1dEWMceQUOe

The clicking/rattle happens a second after I hit the gas then stops right after I stop accelerating.

This was in 4th gear at 40KM/hr - ~1800RPM to 2500RPM ishish.

Thanks again for the help.

Cheers,
seriously 4th gear @ 40kms (thats only 24mph) .... and hard acceleration at 1800 rpm?

Since your car is a manual, put it in 2nd gear and try again ...

When the engine makes max power at 8k+, don't go for hard acceleration at 1800 rpm as you are in the wrong gear.

309 kW (414 hp)@ 8300
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      11-11-2018, 04:43 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
I took a video, then realized the camera was pointed squarely at my crotch... So I ripped out just the audio

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1dEWMceQUOe

The clicking/rattle happens a second after I hit the gas then stops right after I stop accelerating.

This was in 4th gear at 40KM/hr - ~1800RPM to 2500RPM ishish.

Thanks again for the help.

Cheers,
seriously 4th gear @ 40kms (thats only 24mph) .... and hard acceleration at 1800 rpm?

Since your car is a manual, put it in 2nd gear and try again ...

When the engine makes max power at 8k+, don't go for hard acceleration at 1800 rpm as you are in the wrong gear.

309 kW (414 hp)@ 8300
400 N·m (300 lb·ft)@ 3900
Jeesh, are you the RPM police? I used 4th at a low speed to capture the sound. If you read the rest of the posts, you would find out that I had knock at higher rpm too.

People are so judgy...

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      11-11-2018, 09:35 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
I took a video, then realized the camera was pointed squarely at my crotch... So I ripped out just the audio

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1dEWMceQUOe

The clicking/rattle happens a second after I hit the gas then stops right after I stop accelerating.

This was in 4th gear at 40KM/hr - ~1800RPM to 2500RPM ishish.

Thanks again for the help.

Cheers,
seriously 4th gear @ 40kms (thats only 24mph) .... and hard acceleration at 1800 rpm?

Since your car is a manual, put it in 2nd gear and try again ...

When the engine makes max power at 8k+, don't go for hard acceleration at 1800 rpm as you are in the wrong gear.

309 kW (414 hp)@ 8300
400 N·m (300 lb·ft)@ 3900
Jeesh, are you the RPM police? I used 4th at a low speed to capture the sound. If you read the rest of the posts, you would find out that I had knock at higher rpm too.

People are so judgy...

not judging... just pointing out that cars (like road/mountain bikes) have gears for a reason!
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      11-11-2018, 11:16 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
I took a video, then realized the camera was pointed squarely at my crotch... So I ripped out just the audio

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1dEWMceQUOe

The clicking/rattle happens a second after I hit the gas then stops right after I stop accelerating.

This was in 4th gear at 40KM/hr - ~1800RPM to 2500RPM ishish.

Thanks again for the help.

Cheers,
seriously 4th gear @ 40kms (thats only 24mph) .... and hard acceleration at 1800 rpm?

Since your car is a manual, put it in 2nd gear and try again ...

When the engine makes max power at 8k+, don't go for hard acceleration at 1800 rpm as you are in the wrong gear.

309 kW (414 hp)@ 8300
400 N·m (300 lb·ft)@ 3900
Jeesh, are you the RPM police? I used 4th at a low speed to capture the sound. If you read the rest of the posts, you would find out that I had knock at higher rpm too.

People are so judgy...

not judging... just pointing out that cars (like road/mountain bikes) have gears for a reason!
Whaaaaat? My 6-speed transmission has 6 DIFFERENT gears in it??

Mind... Blown.
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      11-11-2018, 12:52 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
I took a video, then realized the camera was pointed squarely at my crotch... So I ripped out just the audio

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1dEWMceQUOe

The clicking/rattle happens a second after I hit the gas then stops right after I stop accelerating.

This was in 4th gear at 40KM/hr - ~1800RPM to 2500RPM ishish.

Thanks again for the help.

Cheers,
seriously 4th gear @ 40kms (thats only 24mph) .... and hard acceleration at 1800 rpm?

Since your car is a manual, put it in 2nd gear and try again ...

When the engine makes max power at 8k+, don't go for hard acceleration at 1800 rpm as you are in the wrong gear.

309 kW (414 hp)@ 8300
400 N·m (300 lb·ft)@ 3900
Jeesh, are you the RPM police? I used 4th at a low speed to capture the sound. If you read the rest of the posts, you would find out that I had knock at higher rpm too.

People are so judgy...

not judging... just pointing out that cars (like road/mountain bikes) have gears for a reason!
Whaaaaat? My 6-speed transmission has 6 DIFFERENT gears in it??

Mind... Blown.
you're welcome!
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      07-19-2019, 12:12 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamfoo View Post
Updating an open item - shop found the old injectors that came off my car months ago and finally had them flow tested; see attached pic of the shop readout below for results. in a nutshell, the original injectors were def in bad shape, with 2 of them operating at capacity as low as ~60%. no wonder I was getting bad knocking/pre-detonation under many different driving situations.

Just to share. If anyone is also experiencing the metallic engine knocking/pre detonation noise at low speed or when getting on the gas to push the car, and has tried replacing the cheaper items such as spark plugs, coils, low pressure fuel sensors, etc, fouled injectors could be the real culprit
I picked up a set of 5000KM injectors from a local shop for cheap. He pulled them when he installed his AA supercharger and they look brand new. I am going to swap injectors and see what I can see.

Anything to worry about given they have been sitting for years? They were in a box indoors. They are all clean.

Cheers,
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      07-19-2019, 02:01 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamfoo View Post
Updating an open item - shop found the old injectors that came off my car months ago and finally had them flow tested; see attached pic of the shop readout below for results. in a nutshell, the original injectors were def in bad shape, with 2 of them operating at capacity as low as ~60%. no wonder I was getting bad knocking/pre-detonation under many different driving situations.

Just to share. If anyone is also experiencing the metallic engine knocking/pre detonation noise at low speed or when getting on the gas to push the car, and has tried replacing the cheaper items such as spark plugs, coils, low pressure fuel sensors, etc, fouled injectors could be the real culprit
I picked up a set of 5000KM injectors from a local shop for cheap. He pulled them when he installed his AA supercharger and they look brand new. I am going to swap injectors and see what I can see.

Anything to worry about given they have been sitting for years? They were in a box indoors. They are all clean.

Cheers,
I asked the same with shop that cleaned mine before, and was told it is possible for the injectors to be "stuck" if they have been sitting unused for some time. The tech recommended to have the injectors tested once again (they'd clean them for me if needed) before actually running them.

I dont quite understand how this could happen, but asked twice in two separate inquiries and received the same answer. Was going to offer mine up for u to try the last time u posted, but I dont know where they went
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      07-21-2019, 11:30 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamfoo View Post
I asked the same with shop that cleaned mine before, and was told it is possible for the injectors to be "stuck" if they have been sitting unused for some time. The tech recommended to have the injectors tested once again (they'd clean them for me if needed) before actually running them.

I dont quite understand how this could happen, but asked twice in two separate inquiries and received the same answer. Was going to offer mine up for u to try the last time u posted, but I dont know where they went
I sent the spare 8 injectors away to a shop just north of me for cleaning. They will come back with a report on performance and pattern

One thing that drives me nuts is when IO use the factory tune and Shell 91 I still get a little bit of pinging. When I run Alpine or Dinan on Shell 91 - major pinging. When I run Alpine tune with Chevron 94, I seem to not get any pinging.

Grumble grumble.

So I will swap the injectors and run some shell fuel with the factory tune as well as the other tunes and see what I will see... I am also thinking that I will send my old injectors out to have them tested to see what their performance was. Then I will sell them as a calibrated set.

Annoyed but hopeful.

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      07-24-2019, 12:32 PM   #57
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Great work here in tracking it down. We keep a few sets of rebuilt injectors on hand over this. All the time we test drive customer M3's that we detect pinging in and we suggest swapping injectors to our customers before anything else. They often are oblivious to the sound and issue, but are usually pleasantly surprised with the improvement to how their engine runs afterwards.

It's relatively common for these injectors to have problems, even fail open and destroy engine blocks.
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      07-24-2019, 01:18 PM   #58
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Great work here in tracking it down. We keep a few sets of rebuilt injectors on hand over this. All the time we test drive customer M3's that we detect pinging in and we suggest swapping injectors to our customers before anything else. They often are oblivious to the sound and issue, but are usually pleasantly surprised with the improvement to how their engine runs afterwards.

It's relatively common for these injectors to have problems, even fail open and destroy engine blocks.
I hope that swapping them solves it. Should find out this weekend, as long as parts come in. Given 94 octane seems to really help, it leads me to think it is a fueling problem. Been a long journey.
Thankfully I found a set of lightly used injectors for an AWESOME price.

I have never taken the plenum off this car. It does not look too terrible. A possible wrinkle is that I have the Dinan strut braces. One member, a while back, complained that he could not get the plenum out with Dinan braces as there was not enough play given their larger than stock diameter. Not sure if this is true and he never followed up with any further posts in that thread. I guess removing the strut braces is not a big deal, just adds a bit of time.

Do you have any experience with plenum removal with Dinan strut braces? And one last question - when you do this, do you remove the fuel rails by disconnecting it completely by unlocking and disconnecting the fuel line like TIS says to do? Or is it just as easy to do with it attached?

Thanks again!

Cheers,
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      07-24-2019, 02:58 PM   #59
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Just remove the Dinan tubes. Its a tight fit. You'd probably scratch them trying to save the 5 extra minutes it takes to remove them.
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      07-26-2019, 03:44 PM   #60
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Spare injectors are back from being cleaned. Being I am in there, plugs will get changed too as rock auto pricing is awesome.

The used injectors had good flow but a so so pattern. Now they are all even.

Wish me luck!
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      07-26-2019, 11:52 PM   #61
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Job done.

Plugs only had 20,000km on them. But sooo easy to change without a plenum.

Injectors looked ok. But that means nothing. Plugs all looked good.

One note: removing the injectors from the rail takes a lot of cajoling...

Something I noticed was that the hose clamps on each throttle body were loose - barely finger tight. Is this normal? I know you do not need to torque the hell out of them but finger tight would be nice.

Also, the condensate line was not connected. Must have been when the previous owner installed the Dinan throttle bodies. Not sure how that would affect anything. Still, a bit annoying.

Anyway, car runs. Once I run out of chevron 94 I will put a tank of shell 91 in it and see what I see.

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      07-27-2019, 12:02 AM   #62
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I noticed this too with the same tune. Looks like ill just get the injectors cleaned and do coils too.
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      07-27-2019, 01:41 AM   #63
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Got my plugs changed today and car runs much better, no more low rpm hesitation. They were 35000kms old and looked same as above.

I run Alpine's stage 2 (full akra exhaust) 98ron tune.

Last edited by Fezza; 07-27-2019 at 01:53 AM..
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      07-27-2019, 04:07 AM   #64
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Quote:
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Job done.

Plugs only had 20,000km on them. But sooo easy to change without a plenum.

Injectors looked ok. But that means nothing. Plugs all looked good.

One note: removing the injectors from the rail takes a lot of cajoling...

Something I noticed was that the hose clamps on each throttle body were loose - barely finger tight. Is this normal? I know you do not need to torque the hell out of them but finger tight would be nice.

Also, the condensate line was not connected. Must have been when the previous owner installed the Dinan throttle bodies. Not sure how that would affect anything. Still, a bit annoying.

Anyway, car runs. Once I run out of chevron 94 I will put a tank of shell 91 in it and see what I see.

That's similar to the age of my plugs when I replaced my injectors. New plugs always help but they were just temporary band aid as the knock always returns within a month or two. Pls report back after summer. And are you planning on getting the old injectors tested as well?
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      07-27-2019, 08:24 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamfoo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Job done.

Plugs only had 20,000km on them. But sooo easy to change without a plenum.

Injectors looked ok. But that means nothing. Plugs all looked good.

One note: removing the injectors from the rail takes a lot of cajoling...

Something I noticed was that the hose clamps on each throttle body were loose - barely finger tight. Is this normal? I know you do not need to torque the hell out of them but finger tight would be nice.

Also, the condensate line was not connected. Must have been when the previous owner installed the Dinan throttle bodies. Not sure how that would affect anything. Still, a bit annoying.

Anyway, car runs. Once I run out of chevron 94 I will put a tank of shell 91 in it and see what I see.

That's similar to the age of my plugs when I replaced my injectors. New plugs always help but they were just temporary band aid as the knock always returns within a month or two. Pls report back after summer. And are you planning on getting the old injectors tested as well?
I would like to but I don't really want to spend $300 again just to see. Perhaps I will ask the shop if they can just do the test and not clean them. Perhaps that will be cheaper.

Time will tell if the problem is solved. Thankfully, for once, this car drinks fuel like a fat kid chugs cola so it won't be long before I need to fill at a shell station

I will keep you posted.
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      07-27-2019, 10:09 AM   #66
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I would like to but I don't really want to spend $300 again just to see. Perhaps I will ask the shop if they can just do the test and not clean them. Perhaps that will be cheaper. .
You don't need to rebuild them. Any injector shop will flow test and assess them for a smaller fee. Assuming this fixed your issue, I would absolutely have them tested to know where you stood. It will identify the point of flow and injector condition that induces the ping you're seeing. That's helpful for anyone to know. Real life data are always good to have.
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