Track forum general chit chat.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by StripclubDJ

Works amazing!
As long as you get the sub belt

Cool, placing order for the sub belt then! thanks!

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I have read mixed reviews about it, and I'm honestly not sure how I feel about using them or not with the fixed back seat. Maybe someone in here can chime in. I have a set of both driver/passenger quick-fit pro's.

I ran them with my Sparcos until I got my roll bar and liked them, I also ran the sub belt

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by turbo_joe

I ran them with my Sparcos until I got my roll bar and liked them, I also ran the sub belt

Cool! The plan is to eventually get a harness bar or roll bar as well, but I also like carrying wheels in the back seat and having regular use of the back seat (car is still my daily) so I want to hold off on one for now, but do want one.

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Cool! The plan is to eventually get a harness bar or roll bar as well, but I also like carrying wheels in the back seat and having regular use of the back seat (car is still my daily) so I want to hold off on one for now, but do want one.

With my cage I can only carry one wheel in the car haha, but luckily I trailer it to the track.
Only one time did a track complain about the Schroth harness saying they don't like to see a harness without at least a roll bar. But they let me slide as long as I had my hans on

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Cool! The plan is to eventually get a harness bar or roll bar as well, but I also like carrying wheels in the back seat and having regular use of the back seat (car is still my daily) so I want to hold off on one for now, but do want one.

The BK bar is what I use as a harness bar. It moves out of the way for tire setups after removing just 2 bolts. You can take the whole thing out removing 4 bolts.
I have a writeup in my signature I think

I'm wondering, are you/have you been part of AER?

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The BK bar is what I use as a harness bar. It moves out of the way for tire setups after removing just 2 bolts. You can take the whole thing out removing 4 bolts.
I have a writeup in my signature I think

I'm wondering, are you/have you been part of AER?

Ahh yup, I'm familiar with that post!
It works with the back seat padding still in too right?

And nope, not familiar with AER

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Ahh yup, I'm familiar with that post!
It works with the back seat padding still in too right?

And nope, not familiar with AER

I haven't tried it with the back seat bottom/rear installed, but I bet it fits fine

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Granted I haven’t been driving around as much lately due to COVID, but all things considered they’re pretty comfortable!
Main thing I need to figure out soon is 3-pt belt though as I can’t get the receptacle through the seat (so it’s on the outside) and the belt rubs my neck a bit so will probably be getting some sort of padding for it.
The real test will be the 4hr drive to Hallett this week.

I just installed an OMP seat in my car as well.
The solution I ran with was to remove the factory 3 point receptacle and replace it with the receptacle from the rear seat. it's attached to the mounting point with a cloth web, so much more manipulable than the factory front seat belt mounting point.

You do lose the pre-tensioner but it allows the belt to feed through both harness holes and puts it in the proper position

[dparm]

Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC

I just installed an OMP seat in my car as well.
The solution I ran with was to remove the factory 3 point receptacle and replace it with the receptacle from the rear seat. it's attached to the mounting point with a cloth web, so much more manipulable than the factory front seat belt mounting point.

You do lose the pre-tensioner but it allows the belt to feed through both harness holes and puts it in the proper position

I wonder if a seat belt extender would work too. My Chevy dealer gives them out for free -- I use it at the track while I'm wearing my 4 points.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC

I just installed an OMP seat in my car as well.
The solution I ran with was to remove the factory 3 point receptacle and replace it with the receptacle from the rear seat. it's attached to the mounting point with a cloth web, so much more manipulable than the factory front seat belt mounting point.

You do lose the pre-tensioner but it allows the belt to feed through both harness holes and puts it in the proper position

That's a good idea. The pretensioner is coded out now anyway at this point so that might be what I end up doing. Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by dparm

I wonder if a seat belt extender would work too. My Chevy dealer gives them out for free -- I use it at the track while I'm wearing my 4 points.

I considered this too, but with where the belt sits in relation to the height I mounted the seat it may not be the best solution after all, but I have my Quick-Fits here so I'll see what that might look like too.

Thanks guys!

[b4hand]

I almost bought a seat but reading about fix back seats and accidents steered me away. I worry for you street car guys/gals losing side airbags and not having collapsible backs.

I think if you want to go fixed seats you gotta at least do a 4 point. But driving around on the streets with a cage is also dangerous. Or buy those expense Cobra seats just to use quickfit pro's but that's pretty meh too.

[bigjae1976]

A 3 pt works with a fixed back seat. I wouldn't ditch the pre tensioner. I think that's a key element in conjunction with the airbags. In an accident, the seat belt stretches and then you will move around a lot more.

How that all works exactly? I hope I never find out.

I think there are a couple of levels

1. OEM belts and suffer
2. Schroth Quick Fits w/ HANS
3. 6 Pt Harness, fixed seat, HANS

Anything outside of that has a higher level of unknowns. Not saying it's bad, just not tested.

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by dparm

I wonder if a seat belt extender would work too. My Chevy dealer gives them out for free -- I use it at the track while I'm wearing my 4 points.

I don't see why not. I think it depends on the seat too, some have some huge lap belt openings that are much more friendly for 3 point belts. Seems like the OMPs are not those seats, but it works well enough for the handful of times a month (if that) that i'll actually be using the 3 points

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

A 3 pt works with a fixed back seat. I wouldn't ditch the pre tensioner. I think that's a key element in conjunction with the airbags. In an accident, the seat belt stretches and then you will move around a lot more.

How that all works exactly? I hope I never find out.

I think there are a couple of levels

1. OEM belts and suffer
2. Schroth Quick Fits w/ HANS
3. 6 Pt Harness, fixed seat, HANS

Anything outside of that has a higher level of unknowns. Not saying it's bad, just not tested.

Agreed. I remember seeing a thread on here where the rep from Brey Krause said that losing the pre-tensioner, but having the lap belt properly located, was the lesser of 2 evils.

At the end of the day its a risk based decision. Of course, anything could happen and not having the pre-tensioner is not going to be as safe as if you did, but for the very few times that I'll be driving the car with the 3 points, I'm ok with the risk. Being that there are no side airbags now and all soft material is removed from the car's interior, I'd like to avoid driving it on the street anyways so I don't crack my noggin open

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

That's a good idea. The pretensioner is coded out now anyway at this point so that might be what I end up doing. Thanks for the tip!

Happy to help. I more so just have it to have it, I don't really plan on needing it as I won't be driving my car on the street much anymore

one note if you do go this route: you'll have to use a different bolt to mount the seat belt receptacle. The bolt that holds the pre-tensioner assembly has a large built in shoulder washer that won't fit through the rear belt mounting tab.

Did you code the car yourself or have someone else do it? I still have the airbag and seatbelt lights in and would like to get rid of them before my next track event. Just haven't gotten around to buying the cable and sitting down with a computer to figure out how to do it.

[dparm]

As soon as you start modifying any part of the safety SYSTEM, it is a gamble. This is why I run stock seats; on the street, I know that the stock seat plus the 3-point belt, airbags, side impact beams, etc. are all designed to work a certain way.

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by dparm

As soon as you start modifying any part of the safety SYSTEM, it is a gamble. This is why I run stock seats; on the street, I know that the stock seat plus the 3-point belt, airbags, side impact beams, etc. are all designed to work a certain way.

For sure. That's why the first step of converting the car, even before buying a fixed back seat, was to buy a truck to daily drive and haul the car around

I don't really foresee me driving the car on the street much if at all, for all the reasons discussed. Maybe a trip down to the liquor store on a sunny Sunday, but, like you said, that'll be a gamble. May choose to just take the truck. Turbo noises are fun to hear too

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC

Did you code the car yourself or have someone else do it? I still have the airbag and seatbelt lights in and would like to get rid of them before my next track event. Just haven't gotten around to buying the cable and sitting down with a computer to figure out how to do it.

Thanks for the tip on the bolt.
As far as the coding goes I had someone local do it that knows what they’re doing, that stuff is way outside of my level of knowledge lol

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Thanks for the tip on the bolt.
As far as the coding goes I had someone local do it that knows what they’re doing, that stuff is way outside of my level of knowledge lol

Thats fair. I'm a glutton for punishment, and usually undertake tasks that I have no idea how to do, but I haven't run into one that I wasn't able to successfully finish at some point!

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

A 3 pt works with a fixed back seat. I wouldn't ditch the pre tensioner. I think that's a key element in conjunction with the airbags. In an accident, the seat belt stretches and then you will move around a lot more.

How that all works exactly? I hope I never find out.

I think there are a couple of levels

1. OEM belts and suffer
2. Schroth Quick Fits w/ HANS
3. 6 Pt Harness, fixed seat, HANS

Anything outside of that has a higher level of unknowns. Not saying it's bad, just not tested.

Seat engineer here.
To keep it simple,
A car without and airbag in the wheel + no hans = very bad
A car with a fixed seat back w/o halo + no hans = very bad
A car with no pretensioner + no hans = very bad

Basic story is if you get rid of one of the main components of the seat/belt/bag system without adding a hans. It will not perform well in a dynamic event.

Edit:
I will add, I run a factory seat with a quick fit 4 point installed. In my mind there should not be a middle ground on this issues. Either stay factory + Quick fit, or go all the way with a seat + halo, 5 point, helmet and hans. Your life is worth the inconveniences.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Seat engineer here.
To keep it simple,
A car without and airbag in the wheel + no hans = very bad
A car with a fixed seat back w/o halo + no hans = very bad
A car with no pretensioner + no hans = very bad

Basic story is if you get rid of one of the main components of the seat/belt/bag system without adding a hans. It will not perform well in a dynamic event.

Edit:
I will add, I run a factory seat with a quick fit 4 point installed. In my mind there should not be a middle ground on this issues. Either stay factory + Quick fit, or go all the way with a seat + halo, 5 point, helmet and hans. Your life is worth the inconveniences.

Curious to hear your perspective on a Schroth 4-point ASM on a factory seat with a HANS.

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by dparm

Curious to hear your perspective on a Schroth 4-point ASM on a factory seat with a HANS.

Here is my take on it having no part in the development or testing of the schroth asm.

When a seat is designed, it is designed in a way that the pelvis's force is directed down at an angle into the seat cushion structure. This is also why (among other reasons) the front of the cushion is always raised higher than the rear of the cushion where you sit. In a factory seat, the belt will allow some movement in the shoulders, partially because its orientation across the chest, which also mitigates the movement of the pelvis. The main thing you are trying to avoid is the occupant going under the belt and injuring the neck or spine. What I believe the schroth asm belt does is actually tear in an engineered place so that the belt can extend like a factory belt does to assist in this.

I do not think there is a single situation where adding a helmet and hans by itself is a bad thing. You could wear it every day in a completely factory seat/belt/bags if you want and it would probably be safer.

As far as fixed seats...
These fixed seats are typically designed not to move or to be rigid. That means that now little force is absorbed by the seat itself. Traditional seat backs are engineered to deform in a way to absorb some of the force. So now in a fixed seat, the whole system has less ability to absorb force meaning the occupant will take them. To add to this, if you have a 4 point or 5 point, the pelvis and torso are also fixed, if you do not add a helmet and hans to this equation, the head and neck has almost no protection from these forces.

Adding more to the fixed seat topic, if you have a fixed seat without a halo (assuming your side airbag is now gone) there is very little to protect your head or neck in a side impact. The hans may help some, but its more meant for fore-aft movement mitigation, not as much for lateral.

Let me know if anything in here is unclear or if you have additional questions. I typed this up during a meeting so it might not make complete sense. I can come back and go into more detail later if requested.