First track build (e92 M3)

[FrostyAZ]

Thanks for the offer. I have not loaded these pics to a site yet. Will try to do that soon and then might take you up on the offer for help.

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

reply with a link to your pics and I'll try show you how.

[dogbone]

I was looking at your build list again. I didn't see any aero listed. Is aero being considered as part of the original build?

I gutted and caged my car and started without any aero. A majority of the weight loss comes from the rear half of the car, so the car becomes very light in the rear. As a result, my car became quite tail happy....very unpleasant. (I was used to a nicely balanced car before the gutting/cage.) I started with just a rear wing to settle it, but I went with a large wing. Basically, I didn't commit to just putting on a small wing that could settle the rear. I went with a wing that would work with front aero someday. As a result, the rear was nice and settled but the car understeered a LOT on rounding bends at 80+mph. So a short time later front aero went on, and the world of car balance was once again a happy place. But you do still need to manage throttle in slow corners quite carefully because the aero doesn't do much below 50mph, so the tail happiness can still rear up in those moments. But a light M3 at speed with aero is an awesome and super stable thing.

A bunch of us, including me, have wings that are simply trunk mounted. I guess it's okaaaaay----the trunk is pretty strong......but a chassis mounted wing would definitely be better.

I bring this up now because a cage builder would want to consider how to tie in the wing support to the chassis and cage. Doing it correctly now would save a bunch of hassles later.

Anyway, just 2 more pennies of thought.

[warp10]

Originally Posted by FrostyAZ

Doors are from MA Shaw, made in the USA. Price was very reasonable and Mike (owner) is a nice guy. It took them a little while to find the mold, he said there has been very low demand for E92 parts. They make a lot of lightweight Porsche and E36/46 parts. I have asked him to let me know me how many firm orders he needs to make new molds. Would be nice to have a source for reasonably priced lightweight body parts. I would like him to make a lightweight GTR vented hood. First I want to see how the doors look and feel when mounted.

Let me know I am very interested in hood and doors.

M24 Parts the shipping is a much as those parts. Haha.

[FrostyAZ]

Dogbone - thanks for the info on the aero. I have been contemplating it. My original plan was to wait on aero and relearn the car and continue to improve my driving but I have been worried about an unsettled chassis. What did you do upfront?

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by FrostyAZ

Dogbone - thanks for the info on the aero. I have been contemplating it. My original plan was to wait on aero and relearn the car and continue to improve my driving but I have been worried about an unsettled chassis. What did you do upfront?

Given what I experienced, I would say it's not worth relearning the car without the aero. It was no fun to drive. Even with the car being lighter, I was slower because you could just tell the rear end wanted to get away from you and you had to manage it. I have a friend who's a solid driver and drives a 996 GT3. He should be used to rear ends stepping out on him. He drove my car at Laguna Seca. The FIRST thing he said when he came back in was, "Dude, this thing needs a wing!!!" Hehe if a Porsche guy says that, it must be true. Anyway, I had been feeling exactly the same thing and was glad he had the same conclusion. The full aero does a massively good job of bringing balance to the car.

As far as front aero, I went with a generic carbon lip with a flat bottom and then an APR splitter under it. The splitter tip sits 5" from the front of the bumper. I also put canards up there but those are mostly for flavor. They don't do a whole lot. But they do something. And the splitter itself is a bit of its own story. You need it to be cutout to fit the underside of the M3. While I guess a shop could get a blank piece and cut it, I think that would be a lot of labor hours. Racewerkz made a cutout pattern and it's ready to go. But you can't buy that from any vendor. I suggest either contacting Racewerkz or APR.

I have a build thread here in this section of the forum. It goes into great detail about my journey on my build:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1158445

I need to post in there about some of my latest thoughts about my build.

[FrostyAZ]

Awesome, thanks for the help.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by FrostyAZ

Car was a total stripper. No I-Drive, cloth seats, no sunroof. I don't have the original sticker but I am guessing there was not a single option checked, which was exactly what I was looking for. The car had some mods already done to get my starting weight before the build at 3,450 but those mods maybe amounted to 50 pounds.

Lucky you! My car has DCT and ipod but its a sedan. I'm sure that will make the wire harness thinning much simpler.

Originally Posted by dogbone

I was looking at your build list again. I didn't see any aero listed. Is aero being considered as part of the original build?

I gutted and caged my car and started without any aero. A majority of the weight loss comes from the rear half of the car, so the car becomes very light in the rear. As a result, my car became quite tail happy....very unpleasant. (I was used to a nicely balanced car before the gutting/cage.) I started with just a rear wing to settle it, but I went with a large wing. Basically, I didn't commit to just putting on a small wing that could settle the rear. I went with a wing that would work with front aero someday. As a result, the rear was nice and settled but the car understeered a LOT on rounding bends at 80+mph. So a short time later front aero went on, and the world of car balance was once again a happy place. But you do still need to manage throttle in slow corners quite carefully because the aero doesn't do much below 50mph, so the tail happiness can still rear up in those moments. But a light M3 at speed with aero is an awesome and super stable thing.

Do you think a milder wing like the GTS wing would have been a better choice without front end aero?

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Do you think a milder wing like the GTS wing would have been a better choice without front end aero?

That's a good question. My experiences in Turn 8 at Big Willow make the answer confusing.

I'll start by saying that I am a true believer of full aero versus just a rear wing after driving both for awhile. Only after the front aero finally went on did my times plummet by 2-5 seconds at every track. The car just came to life. Lots of front grip.

I ran the car with just the 67" APR rear wing for awhile. And as I said before, it stabilized the rear end, but the front end paid the price in turns like Turn 2 and 8/9 at Big Willow and Riverside at Buttonwillow. On these turns, the steering wheel had almost no effect on the car above 90mph. I don't like it when my steering wheel is just a decoration....

While the rear wing was the only aero, I was at Big Willow, and the rear felt great but the front was suffering so I took 1º Angle of Attack out of the wing to see if I could rebalance the car. That 1º was VERY noticeable in Turn 8 in a bad way. The rear felt nervous again. I did get a little front control back, but the rear of the car felt crappy. I only have 1º increments, so there was no in-between setting to try... So, the answer for me seemed to be that if I only had a rear wing and wanted the rear to the car to feel good, the front would suffer on high speed rounders. I was able to dial out the rear wing enough that it wasn't doing as much anymore and the car felt bad altogether. So, the question is, could a smaller wing do a better job without front aero? I don't know.....I dialed out enough angle that the wing wasn't very effective and the whole car felt crappy.

The main reason I didn't do full aero right from the beginning was because I was afraid of breaking the splitter every time I went off track. But I can happily tell you that it has survived at least 10 off-track excursions---including sliding off at Turn 2 at Laguna Seca into the gravel (and needing to be towed out because I was stuck), and it's survived several offs at Buttonwillow in the mud (with mud showing on top of the splitter), and one off to the left side after Phil Hill (yuck). I know it could still break, but it sure has held up quite well. So, my main fear of front aero turned out to be misplaced.

Here's the thing---No rear wing big or small can help prevent air going under a car in the front. If anything, it raises the front of the car up. Front aero is the main thing that can encourage the air to go over the car.

My final conclusion once I drove full aero was the aero works much better when it's on both ends of the car, and that going only halfway was not a proper solution.

[roastbeef]

i was just thinking the other day that i should have started a little notebook journal when i started tracking just to keep tabs on different mods and how they felt/etc.. i think i'm going to actually start doing this once i install the aero bits i have collected (apr splitter, gts style wing). mostly because adding aero to my evolving car is going to be quite the game of trial and error. i'm not sure yet, but i would imagine that some settings will be good for one track, but other settings will be better for another track. some settings might also be a definite "no", and i don't want to revisit those settings twice in the exploration process.

all that said, i'm enjoying reading your guy's experiences and discussion.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i was just thinking the other day that i should have started a little notebook journal when i started tracking just to keep tabs on different mods and how they felt/etc.. i think i'm going to actually start doing this once i install the aero bits i have collected (apr splitter, gts style wing). mostly because adding aero to my evolving car is going to be quite the game of trial and error. i'm not sure yet, but i would imagine that some settings will be good for one track, but other settings will be better for another track. some settings might also be a definite "no", and i don't want to revisit those settings twice in the exploration process.

all that said, i'm enjoying reading your guy's experiences and discussion.

If that's your plan then I strongly encourage you to pick up an Aim Solo DL or something similar. Though you'll be able to describe the "feel" of some of the changes, only quantifiable data counts. As it is, I'm consistently surprised as I think I'm doing one thing and the Aim proves otherwise.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by okusa

If that's your plan then I strongly encourage you to pick up an Aim Solo DL or something similar. Though you'll be able to describe the "feel" of some of the changes, only quantifiable data counts. As it is, I'm consistently surprised as I think I'm doing one thing and the Aim proves otherwise.

Very true. Data always shows me to be coasting a lot more than I think.

[M3 Number 86]

Me and a couple other friends on here have been doing go-to meeting type of conference calls and comparing our data. The conversations are funny as hell. We're thinking of posting an online version. Lol

I only have very mild rear aero - a high kick spoiler. Lol. Seems to be working for me and the front splitter (although not as large as you guys)

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by okusa

If that's your plan then I strongly encourage you to pick up an Aim Solo DL or something similar. Though you'll be able to describe the "feel" of some of the changes, only quantifiable data counts. As it is, I'm consistently surprised as I think I'm doing one thing and the Aim proves otherwise.

It's on "the list."

[FrostyAZ]

The rod bearings were replaced today by Greg Smith. Greg seems very knowledgable so glad to have him doing the motor work. He is also replacing the valve cover gaskets since the motor is out. I am not an expert on the rod bearing issue but he felt they did not look too bad. The car has a little over 50,000 miles.

[FrostyAZ]

A few more bars going in....

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

It's on "the list."

Best mod is driver mod and the AIM Solo DL is super helpful. Been sharing data with AriuSen and M3 Number 86 and it helps point out deficiencies in our driving and where we can do better.

[FrostyAZ]

Rear tray removed....

[joe@trinityautosport]

Glad to see another E92 build

[///Mobbin]

I agree, excited to see this one come together!

[FrostyAZ]

Thought this turned out well, they removed the rear package tray and associated boxes and then made this tube to protect the gas filler neck.

[FrostyAZ]

The other side.

[FrostyAZ]

Thanks. Your car looks awesome and your build thread was very helpful. I decided to detail mine after seeing your thread and Warp 10's as both were really helpful.

Originally Posted by joe@trinityautosport

Glad to see another E92 build