vs .... 235i

[cjm41]

Originally Posted by MJBO

My first M3 was LSB.

Weird. I just clicked on your profile thinking you were in Southern California where the M3s are like every 3rd car on the road.

You're in Australia. Maybe it's the car culture we have in America? Very much like the obsessive gun culture here, we have an obsessive car culture. It's not weird to stop and chat someone up about their car if it's nice.

Either way, I'm not bullshitting you guys haha.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by castivore1

Yes the m3 is special.

Im 27 y/o but im like those guys who collect things or like someone told me “ur like an old guy who stores antiques” . Dell if thats the case, im proud to be an old guy lol.

Let me give u a different perspective. You're 27, I'm sure you want to experience and enjoy many cars in your lifetime. I've had many cars before my M3, most of them were considered 'special' in one way or another. Alfa 156 V6, Fiat Coupe 20VT Plus, Megane RS250. All great fun cars. All pale in comparison to the E92 M3. I'm at a dilemma now cos there's nothing I can afford that I would truly consider as an upgrade to my M3.

So my advice to you is to get the 235i. Enjoy it. Get bored of it. Try something else. You can always come back to an E9x M3 later. Prices will only keep dropping. Unless you're independently wealthy, getting an M3 now would only spoil you for anything less than a Porsche GT3 in the future.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by cjm41

Personally, I believe if you have to ask, you may want to lean towards the 235i. Both are great cars, I don't need to tell you that... but I kind of think the M3 comes with a lot a quirks and expensive maintenance costs, which you need to be religious about or risk doing 5-figure damage to a car only a handful of shops will touch. You really have to love the car to stomach some of the tedium that comes with ownership.

If you're not a die-hard enthusiast, you're just buying a ridiculously-priced decade-old BMW.

If you are a die-hard enthusiast you're buying the single-best used sports car on the market for under $50k, as well as buying into an important piece of motorsport history, and possibly (hopefully) a near-future collectible automobile.

Here's hoping you get the E9x M3, it has my recommendation, but I'd be a bit apprehensive to tell you to get it if you're even considering something more practical.

Completely agree with this.

From a pure practicality and reliability perspective, the E92/E90 M3 is not a car I would recommend to someone who does not have some technical experience working on these cars.

The M3 has quite a bit of quirks and unique issues. It sometimes takes a specialty shop to figure out and repair some of these issues. This could leave you stranded with expensive repair bills and you can be out of a car for weeks at a time. If you know how to work on cars yourself, you could save yourself a lot of headache... but if you're not so experienced, it will be a big headache.

The M235i would be more friendly to work on and you'll have more fun if you do a lot of street driving. It should be more practical and reliable as well on a daily basis.

For performance, that is a different question... but if I had one car to drive, the M235i gets the vote.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by cjm41

Weird. I just clicked on your profile thinking you were in Southern California where the M3s are like every 3rd car on the road.

You're in Australia. Maybe it's the car culture we have in America? Very much like the obsessive gun culture here, we have an obsessive car culture. It's not weird to stop and chat someone up about their car if it's nice.

Either way, I'm not bullshitting you guys haha.

In California, no one will look twice at your M3 unless it's glowing with multicolored LEDs and it sounds like an earthquake every time you start it up.

[Transfer]

I went from E90 M3 to M235i back to E92 M3. The 235 is an amazingly great car. Seriously one of the best for daily driving and all around comfort with sportiness. The M3 is an astoundingly great car but has quirks and clunks, and noises, and is much more difficult to drive in an "average" manner.

If you drive both back to back you'll instantly see that both cars have a wide skill set but the 235 becomes the better car for typical driving and the M3 better for aggressive driving. But they both can do it all.

Why not also look at M2? It is truly the marriage of M3 and 235i.

[z3papa]

My closest comparison is with the 240i M spec they had at the Performance Drive event I attended. I had the entire day to thrash it as was a weekday and there was low attendance. It was pretty impressive vehicle, lots of front driver/passenger space, power, etc. for what it was, but still not same as my M3. Some factory brass and a few instructors who knew of my motorsports background asked how they compared as I was waiting on my wife to pick me up. All in all, they agreed with my assessment while feeling pretty good about their current product vis a vis the prior gen M3.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Z K

In California, no one will look twice at your M3 unless it's glowing with multicolored LEDs and it sounds like an earthquake every time you start it up.

Hahaaa, seriously. I love all BMW cars and give props regularly. Fools in LA actively refuse to look in my direction. I'm waiting to be like "yo man your car is niiiice" but no lol, refusal to look within 90degrees if my location.

[For3]

Originally Posted by Z K

Completely agree with this.

From a pure practicality and reliability perspective, the E92/E90 M3 is not a car I would recommend to someone who does not have some technical experience working on these cars.

The M3 has quite a bit of quirks and unique issues. It sometimes takes a specialty shop to figure out and repair some of these issues. This could leave you stranded with expensive repair bills and you can be out of a car for weeks at a time. If you know how to work on cars yourself, you could save yourself a lot of headache... but if you're not so experienced, it will be a big headache.

The M235i would be more friendly to work on and you'll have more fun if you do a lot of street driving. It should be more practical and reliable as well on a daily basis.

For performance, that is a different question... but if I had one car to drive, the M235i gets the vote.

I don't want to derail this thread as I am not interested in a 235i, but interested in moving into a E9X M3 (or gasp a F80 M3) in the next year from my E92 328i 6sp manual. I realize the running costs are more such as oil, brakes, tires, etc. I do know about the rod bearings and throttle actuators. I've learned to work on cars via my BMW over the last couple of years. I've changed the belt and pulleys, spark plugs, and ignition coils. I'm getting ready to do the rotors and pads soon. So my comfort in doing such things has increased - especially with the amount of youtube guide videos. Throttle actuators seem doable. Rod bearings I would leave to a shop.

I am digressing from my main question though. Most people on this forum seem to say go for a E9X m3. It's the most reliable M generation to date (although it seems the F8X might be more so) and outside of the 2 major issues identified they are purportedly reliable. I am interested to hear what the quirks and other items you mention are. I want to be armed with as much info as possible when I make my decision. A M3 is a 20+ long year dream for me but I am also practical. Thanks in advance.

[Transfer]

DCT leaks are very common, DCT failures are not. EDC failures do happen although I don't think I would put them in the common category. Main bearing failures happen but this is probably at least as rare as rod bearings or more rare from what I've read. Valve cover gasket leaks also happen with some frequency. Other than what you stated, those are the issues I think about.

[cjm41]

Originally Posted by For3

A M3 is a 20+ long year dream for me but I am also practical. Thanks in advance.

Was a 20 year long dream for me too. I'm about three months into owning my first M3 (4th BMW- 2x E30s and an E60).

For me it was always gonna be the e92, from the day I saw it and the naysayers hated the idea of the V8 in 2007-2008. When I was 15 I'd day dream about the e36 M3 in high school, then a small love affair with the e39 M5, e60 M5. I was drawn back to the M3 in 2008 with the e92. I'm a muscle car guy, but I love the over-engineering of the Germans, and the refinement of BMW.

Point is... I'm a 35 year old small business owner, I'm frugal, and I agonize over spending money that doesn't make money. I'm extremely particular and a huge risk-to-reward type guy.

We may be similar...

This is what I told myself:

1. The e30 is iconic but a bit dated. I'd buy one and put it on display in my garage one day if I ever have a small fortune laying around.

2. The e36 is too dated... maybe a beater track car at some point.

3. The e46 is a great car and not too dated but I'm not spending 2x on what they were going for 5-8 years ago.

4. The e92 is it. It's everything I want in a car... modern electronics, nice leather, a timeless design striking the perfect balance of refined and aggressive, a big ass V8 under the hood to satisfy my muscle car guy sensibilities, but... it's pretty close to bottoming out in value. It may not go up more, but I don't see it going down much more. It's still the best sports car you can get for under $50,000 and it's the last of its kind as everything is moving to turbo now. Quite simply put, it's the most bang for my buck and something that'll age quite well. It's cool, it's special, it's loud, it's just a bad ass German muscle car... one of the only.

5. The f80 sounds like shit. I'll never ever ever be able to get over how bad it sounds. You could give me one I'd park it and look at it (it's a beautiful car) but I couldn't be bothered with driving the robot fart machine. It's a non-starter.

So... the e92 M3... To touch on the maintenance.... I don't know your financial situation but you'll have to be comfortable with having a rainy day fund... let's call it a Hurricane day find. Parts for the car are expensive. You have to be savvy. Be on the lookout for deals. Familiarize yourself with FCP Euro's lifetime warranty, expect to replace your throttle actuators, expect to do rod bearings. I've done a driveshaft and DCT pan too. Aside from that, so far, my biggest expense has been fuel, but the smile that friggin' engine puts on my face, the price is worth it.

— If you can get over the awful sound and want something you can drive to work every day but still have a blast on the twisty back roads or occasional track day, get the f80. And ear plugs. It's, by all accounts, a better car, but doesn't have much soul. It's also a lot more expensive.

— If you want a car that's got some amazing characteristics and is special automobile with a unique engine, but will put your wallet in check at the gas pump and force you to be neurotic and meticulous about maintenance and makes a good short-commute daily, get the e92.

Aside from RBs, actuators, DCT pan leaks, and fuel, it's reasonable to own and priced phenomenally right now.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by For3

I don't want to derail this thread as I am not interested in a 235i, but interested in moving into a E9X M3 (or gasp a F80 M3) in the next year from my E92 328i 6sp manual. I realize the running costs are more such as oil, brakes, tires, etc. I do know about the rod bearings and throttle actuators. I've learned to work on cars via my BMW over the last couple of years. I've changed the belt and pulleys, spark plugs, and ignition coils. I'm getting ready to do the rotors and pads soon. So my comfort in doing such things has increased - especially with the amount of youtube guide videos. Throttle actuators seem doable. Rod bearings I would leave to a shop.

I am digressing from my main question though. Most people on this forum seem to say go for a E9X m3. It's the most reliable M generation to date (although it seems the F8X might be more so) and outside of the 2 major issues identified they are purportedly reliable. I am interested to hear what the quirks and other items you mention are. I want to be armed with as much info as possible when I make my decision. A M3 is a 20+ long year dream for me but I am also practical. Thanks in advance.

I bought my M3 and drove it daily for years. I racked up 20k miles a year every year on that car. I ended up purchasing another car to drive when the gas prices went sky high. It made no sense to commute in the M3.

I will say, if it wasn't for the new car warranty, I would have paid a lot to get things fixed on the car in those years driving the M3 every day. I was at the dealer every other month for one issue or another. I don't know if it's because I don't drive the car much or that there are less issue now that the car is older... but the car costs me next to nothing in maintenance now.

If you are comfortable wrenching on your car, you should be fine. I just don't like to recommend the M3 to people who take their car to a shop for everything... it'll cost them an arm and leg to keep the car running.

[Db750]

Had them both few years ago wife had 2015 m235 (did wheels with summer tires/wider rears, m perf exhaust, cosmetics) and me 2013 M3 cp (just cosmetics and exhaust) and it's not even remotely close if you are talking fun to drive the M3 is in a completely different league. For those of us that truly get the e92 M3 few, if any, cars can come close to what it offers.

[MrGatsby]

A few weeks ago I took my M3 to the local BMW dealer for some work. While waiting for the estimate, I ventured around the lot. The distinct smell of drakkar noir wafted towards me and a shiny white smile appeared. The salesman approached and we began chatting about the M235i. I was scheduled for an X2 as my loaner car, however this salesman "pulled some strings" to get me in the M235i instead. I lived with it for 5 days and my thoughts are as follows:

It's fun. It's not particularly fast, or packed with features, but that's the point. I would describe it as capable in various aspects rather than exceeding at one.

It's smaller than the M3, so less trunk space, less rear seat room, and a generally tighter feeling cabin. A capable grocery-getter, but wouldn't take it on a long trip with the fam.

It's a new BMW so it's comfortable; but the seats don't bolster well, the suspension is firm, and it doesn't feel as planted as the M3. Capable for the daily commute, but not built for comfort.

It's got loads of low end torque in comparison to the M3, yet it drops off rather quickly, and I am left wanting much more. (perhaps I am a bit biased with the 8.4k redline). The M3 is very linear in its powerband, and its very thrilling building revs. The M235i is quite the opposite: it's thrilling off the line, but not quite building revs. Its capable of getting you up to speed on the highway with a smile, but hardly fit for a day at the track.

It's light, nimble, and fun around the corners, yet the steering is far too light, which to me negates its handling as I want to feel involved much more than I did. It's capable of handling the twisties, but lacks soul in doing so.

All in all, this car was designed for those who can't afford, or can't appreciate a true M, but still want to wear the badge. And at that, it's built well for its purpose.

I can honestly say the moment I stepped back in to my M3 I realized just how special they truly are. Hands down, E92 M3 over M235i every time.

[EricSMG]

M cars are vastly different than non-Ms... in every sense.

It's not even a question in my mind. M or no BMW. More specifically, M3 or no BMW. That said, all M3s are killer cars - all very different, but all amazing. They all have their strengths, weaknesses and quirks.