BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-19-2020, 12:33 PM   #1
drwankel
Major
drwankel's Avatar
1016
Rep
1,031
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bothell, WA

iTrader: (0)

BBK recomendation that fits with m359s

Hi All,

I'm considering adding a supercharger in the near future, but while doing so, adding some additional stopping power seems prudent.

I'm looking for a BBK recommendation that covers these requirements.

-Fits in the m359 wheels without spacers
-Covers front and rear
-Ebrake is still functional
-Isn't loud or squeals.
-Replacement pads and rotors will be easy to obtain 10-15 years from now.

Any thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2020, 01:28 PM   #2
DRLane
Brigadier General
DRLane's Avatar
United_States
3959
Rep
3,386
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (21)

Garage List
2008 m3  [6.17]
Quote:
Originally Posted by drwankel View Post
Hi All,

I'm considering adding a supercharger in the near future, but while doing so, adding some additional stopping power seems prudent.

I'm looking for a BBK recommendation that covers these requirements.

-Fits in the m359 wheels without spacers
-Covers front and rear
-Ebrake is still functional
-Isn't loud or squeals.
-Replacement pads and rotors will be easy to obtain 10-15 years from now.

Any thoughts?
I think any of the standard BBK options work (AP, ST, Alcon, PFC), unsure about Brembo.

Unless you're tracking the car, regardless of SC it's entirely unnecessary. The stock brakes will have 0 troubles stopping a 600+ whp car on the street or canyons. Get some good pads and possibly upgrade fluid and you're set.
__________________
Not a Doctor, those are just my initials.
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2020, 11:15 PM   #3
wyatth
Colonel
3543
Rep
2,822
Posts

Drives: E90 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Anything will work for you.
I have the Brembo 380 kit F/R behind 359/ZCPs, and these brakes have the worst fitment of any BBK.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2020, 07:37 AM   #4
jritt@essex
Captain
jritt@essex's Avatar
United_States
1019
Rep
839
Posts

Drives: e90 335i, NSX, 997.2, 987.1
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwankel View Post
Hi All,

I'm considering adding a supercharger in the near future, but while doing so, adding some additional stopping power seems prudent.

I'm looking for a BBK recommendation that covers these requirements.

-Fits in the m359 wheels without spacers
-Covers front and rear
-Ebrake is still functional
-Isn't loud or squeals.
-Replacement pads and rotors will be easy to obtain 10-15 years from now.

Any thoughts?
I believe our front CP9660/372mm AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL Kit would be a good fit for you:

Front= https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...93-m3-1m-coupe

Rear= https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...93-m3-1m-coupe

This system clears the ZCP wheels without a spacer (and many others...list below), and was also specifically designed to fit inside 18" wheels if that is of interest to you.

Confirmed wheels that fit without a spacer:

OEM 18" Wheels
OEM 19x9" front Competition ZCP Wheel
OEM 220M 19x8.5"
APEX ARC-8 18x10" +25
APEX EC-7 18x9.5" +22
APEX EC-7 18x10" +25
BBS FI 18x9.5" +22
Enkei NT03+M 18x10 et25
OZ Challenge HLT 18x10" +25
Signature Wheel SV503 18” x 10.5” ET22
Titan 7 TS5, TS7, and TR10 18x9.5 +22
Titan 7 TS5, TS7, and TR10 18x10 +25
Titan 7 TS5, TS7, and TR10 18x10.5 +25
Volk TE37 18x9.5 +22

We also have a more road-oriented kit if you aren't planning to track your car.
Front= https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...61380mm-bmwE90

Rear= https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...mm-BMWe90-rear

I'm not 100% sure if it will clear the ZCP wheels since it is a newer release. It does fit the OEM 220M style wheels without a spacer as you can see in the pic below. You can check front wheel clearance using this template:

https://www.essexparts.com/storage/w...cp9561-380.pdf







If you're unsure which type of AP Racing kit is right for you, Competition vs. Road, you can check out this page:

https://www.essexparts.com/big-brake...-right-for-you

To address your other concerns about a brake kit:
  • Our Road and Competition Brake Kits both retain full parking brake functionality
  • Both systems have pad shapes that are available in Ferodo DS2500 compound, which is what we consider the ultimate road/sport pad. They are very low noise, but have a very high max operating temp, and would be great for your car if supercharged. We have 1000 HP ZR1 Vettes running around on them.
  • Essex has been in business since 1981. We hold hundreds of sets of spare iron discs and pads on hand at any given time. We are in Charlotte, NC, and have a staff of 24 people. We have no plans to go anywhere anytime soon, and offer the best support in the business. We're also long-time forum sponsors.


While our systems are cheap, they are the best in the business, and they retain their value tremendously well. The AP Racing name is synonymous with quality. They typically trade hands for about 65-70% of their original value on the used market, so they truly are more of an investment than most aftermarket parts.

We have set up hundreds of e9x M3 with brake systems, and you can see many happy clients on our blog:
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog

If you need help deciding on what is right for you, we have a team available to answer your questions standing by. Please let us know if/how we can help, and thanks for your consideration!
Appreciate 1
PACarGuy646.00
      09-29-2020, 04:16 AM   #5
Captain Caveman
Banned
82
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: AW 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
I believe our front CP9660/372mm AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL Kit would be a good fit for you:

Front= https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...93-m3-1m-coupe

Rear= https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...93-m3-1m-coupe

This system clears the ZCP wheels without a spacer (and many others...list below), and was also specifically designed to fit inside 18" wheels if that is of interest to you.
Hi Essex,

In the interests of transparency and being able to make informed purchase decisions, could you please reveal the piston sizes of the calipers you supply in the kit, so we can compare them to stock and see what the overall effect will be on pedal travel and front/rear bias?

Stoptech openly provide this information, so I hope you can too.

Many thanks,

Mart.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 08:03 AM   #6
jritt@essex
Captain
jritt@essex's Avatar
United_States
1019
Rep
839
Posts

Drives: e90 335i, NSX, 997.2, 987.1
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Caveman View Post
Hi Essex,

In the interests of transparency and being able to make informed purchase decisions, could you please reveal the piston sizes of the calipers you supply in the kit, so we can compare them to stock and see what the overall effect will be on pedal travel and front/rear bias?

Stoptech openly provide this information, so I hope you can too.

Many thanks,

Mart.
Of course. We are transparent with all of the data regarding our kits. You can see the piston bores by clicking the 'technical specifications' tab on any of our brake kit listings. Please refer to the photo below for its location (bottom left corner, highlighted red). The other tabs beside it show detailed installation instructions, downloadable wheel fitment templates, spares, etc.

Providing as much product knowledge as possible is a foundation of our approach. When I'm shopping for components for my personal cars, I despise not having the information I want. When we built our website, our goal was to provide as much info as we possibly could. I think you'll find that we have more publicly available data about our kits than any of our competitors. I also believe that if we need to hide something about our kits from potential customers, then we shouldn't be doing it!

Maintaining proper brake bias with the OEM master cylinder is also a tenet of our brake kit program. Our kits are truly bolt-on, and you can expect them to integrate smoothly with ABS and any other brake controls on the car. In just about every case, we are within a couple % of OEM brake bias. On the e90 chassis, we have a long list of satisfied owners, many of which are here on the forums. They can attest to our kits' ease of install and the seamless integration. You can see lots of owner feedback on our blog:

Essex Parts Blog

You can feel free to ask anything about our kits that you can't find on our site, although if you consume all of the info on our site, you'll realize that just about all your questions will be answered. Thanks for your consideration!

Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 12:33 PM   #7
Captain Caveman
Banned
82
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: AW 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
Of course. We are transparent with all of the data regarding our kits. You can see the piston bores by clicking the 'technical specifications' tab on any of our brake kit listings.
Thanks for providing the info - that's very useful and refreshing to see so much detail - nice one!

I've done the maths, and it seems your kits has about 9% smaller piston area than a stock E92 M3, meaning 9% firmer pedal, 9% less travel/modulation, and 9% less piston pressure, with a slightly more rearward bias:

Essex Racing AP kit
Front 27/31.8/38.1mm = 2506 x 2
Rear 28.6/34mm = 1550 x 2
Total 4056 x 2 (9.4% firmer pedal / less torque) 61.7% front bias

Obvisouly I've no doubt that you went through very deliberate and considered R&D when choosing the piston area for our cars, so I am curious as to your rationale for deciding on a not insignificant reduction in piston area and the consequential impact on torque and pedal feel/travel.

I've heard it said before that AP calipers tend to have smaller piston area than stock as a general rule, so there must be a reason. Be great if you could share your wisdom?

Cheers,

Mart.

Last edited by Captain Caveman; 09-29-2020 at 04:34 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 02:47 PM   #8
M3SQRD
Major General
M3SQRD's Avatar
1883
Rep
5,240
Posts

Drives: E92 M3,G20 330ix,F22 240iX,F82
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Caveman View Post
Thanks for providing the info - that's very useful and refreshing to see so much detail - nice one!

I've done the maths, and it seems your kits has about 9% smaller piston area than a stock E92 M3, meaning 9% firmer pedal, 9% less travel/modulation, and 9% less torque and a slightly more rearward bias:

Essex Racing AP kit
Front 27/31.8/38.1mm = 2506 x 2
Rear 28.6/34mm = 1550 x 2
Total 4056 x 2 (9.4% firmer pedal / less torque) 61.7% front bias

Obvisouly I've no doubt that you went through very deliberate and considered R&D when choosing the piston area for our cars, so I am curious as to your rationale for deciding on a not insignificant reduction in piston area and the consequential impact on torque and pedal feel/travel.

I've heard it said before that AP calipers tend to have smaller piston area than stock as a general rule, so there must be a reason. Be great if you could share your wisdom?

Cheers,

Mart.
To calculate brake torque you also must include the radius of the rotor. The mean diameter of the AP 372 mm rotor is 345 mm whereas the stock 360 mm rotor has a mean diameter of 326 mm - the AP mean radius is ~6% larger than the stock mean radius.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 03:10 PM   #9
Captain Caveman
Banned
82
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: AW 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
To calculate brake torque you also must include the radius of the rotor. The mean diameter of the AP 372 mm rotor is 345 mm whereas the stock 360 mm rotor has a mean diameter of 326 mm - the AP mean radius is ~6% larger than the stock mean radius.
Indeed. I am asking about piston size in isolation of disc diameter for the time being, as it has a direct impact on pedal travel and firmness, as well as the degree of modulation available. Most aftermarket BBKs offer increased disc diameter and larger pad area, for example the equivalent Stoptech kit, yet their kit retains a total piston area only 1% different to stock.

I'm not doubting the AP kit for a second, I'm simply curious as to the reason for the reduced piston area on AP kits, as it's not the first time I've noticed that they tend to go for smaller total piston areas (seen it before on Evo AP kits). There is obviously a reason for this, and being little more than a novice in this area myself, I'm very interested to understand the rationale. I for one hate a mushy pedal, and like the reassurance of a firm one when pressing on, so perhaps this is the reason they've done this?

I'll leave the Essex guys to spread the knowledge.

M.

Last edited by Captain Caveman; 09-29-2020 at 03:23 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 03:18 PM   #10
M3SQRD
Major General
M3SQRD's Avatar
1883
Rep
5,240
Posts

Drives: E92 M3,G20 330ix,F22 240iX,F82
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Caveman View Post
Indeed. I am asking about piston size in isolation of disc diameter for the time being, as it has a direct impact on pedal travel and firmness, as well as the degree of modulation available. Most aftermarket BBKs offer increased disc diameter and larger pad area, for example the equivalent Stoptech kit, yet their kit retains a total piston area only 1% different to stock.

I'm curious as to the reason for the reduced piston area on AP kits, as it's not the first time I've noticed that they tend to go for smaller total piston areas (seen it before on Evo AP kits). There is obviously a reason for this, and being little more than a novice in this area myself, I'm very interested to understand the rationale. I for one hate a mushy pedal, and like the reassurance of a firm one when pressing on, so perhaps this is the reason they've done this?

I'll leave the Essex guys to spread the knowledge.

M.
That would be fine but you said it’s also down on torque by 9.4% which is force x distance and, therefore, requires the rotor radius to be accounted for in your calculations.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 03:25 PM   #11
Captain Caveman
Banned
82
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: AW 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
That would be fine but you said it’s also down on torque by 9.4% which is force x distance and, therefore, requires the rotor radius to be accounted for in your calculations.
Yes torque at the piston.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 03:50 PM   #12
M3SQRD
Major General
M3SQRD's Avatar
1883
Rep
5,240
Posts

Drives: E92 M3,G20 330ix,F22 240iX,F82
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Caveman View Post
Yes torque at the piston.
Pistons create a force, not torque, that’s equal to total piston area x pressure. So what exactly is “torque at the piston”?
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2020, 04:27 PM   #13
Captain Caveman
Banned
82
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: AW 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
Pistons create a force, not torque, that’s equal to total piston area x pressure. So what exactly is “torque at the piston”?
You are indeed correct. I should have said a 9.4% reduction of piston pressure onto the pads. My apologies.

Last edited by Captain Caveman; 09-29-2020 at 04:40 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2020, 08:15 AM   #14
jritt@essex
Captain
jritt@essex's Avatar
United_States
1019
Rep
839
Posts

Drives: e90 335i, NSX, 997.2, 987.1
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Captain Caveman (great name BTW...I forgot about that guy! ),

As pointed out by others above, it's not just about piston size. To calculate brake torque you have to include the radius at which the clamping force acts upon the disc (known as effective radius). Increasing the effective radius via a larger disc increases the amount of brake torque on a given axle. You also have to take into account brake pad coefficient of friction, which I'll address below. Developing a superior system requires a proper blend of these factors.

You first look at a chassis and consider how it will be used - weight distribution, power, tire choice, aero, etc. You then choose a disc spec for proper thermal capacity and cooling. You consider what pads will be required and used based on the intended operating conditions. Then you dial it in with piston sizing (assuming you can't change master cylinders, which is a luxury we don't have on road cars).

There are several considerations related to piston sizes. The pedal force at the traction limits needs to be within a range where the driver can fine tune the brake torque with ease. If the pedal is too hard to push, one cannot provide precise control when one is straining. If the required force is too light, then a small change in pedal force creates a big change in torque output, which is not good either. The driver needs to be able to adjust the torque output in fine increments. One does not say “I need more brake, I think that I will push the pedal 3 mm farther”. One decides to push a little harder on the pedal, does so, and it moves however far it moves, which can vary.

When we were developing our e9x M3 systems back in 2014-2015, we worked closely with several race teams (like this one) to collect driver input, and we tried several different configurations of our system. We ultimately arrived at a system that not only performs extremely well, but one that feels amazing under foot. AP Racing also continuously strives to reduce caliper flex via stiffness, and the latest Radi-CAL calipers are by far the leader in that regard. They contribute towards making the system more responsive, consistent in feel, and easier to control.

There is one more tuning factor which impacts brake torque, which is the friction material. The vast majority of our customers are running relatively high mu racing pads, so we designed our system to perform optimally with that type of pad installed. With racing pads our system has fantastic sensitivity (pedal force requirement) and excellent modulation. Not every driver is the same, but the way our system is set up has made most of them extremely happy.

In summary, brake systems aren't just about numbers. Yes, it's crucial that you are in the proper range with the numbers. You can't randomly grab brake bits off another chassis and slap them on the car (which we regrettably see people do all the time ). If you go that route, the car will not only perform poorly, it will feel like sh*t. The numbers are incredibly important, but there are numerous other factors required for creating a system with the proper sensitivity, balance, and modulation. These are the factors the driver notices and appreciates while pushing the car at the limit.

Here's a video we made that goes into a little more detail on how we approach our designs. I'm the dashing chap on the right.




As an FYI, I was the sales manager at StopTech from 2002-2007, and one of the core people who helped build the company alongside the original owner (Bob Lee). That was long before StopTech was bought and sold several times, went bankrupt, etc. While I was there we developed their system for the e90 M3, the ST-60 caliper, and hundreds of others. I'm intimately familiar with their products, processes, cost structure, suppliers, etc. When we started our AP Racing brake kit program at Essex, we systematically went down a checklist I created, and strove to make our AP Racing systems superior in every possible regard.
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2020, 04:33 AM   #15
Captain Caveman
Banned
82
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: AW 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
Captain Caveman (great name BTW...I forgot about that guy! ),

As pointed out by others above, it's not just about piston size. To calculate brake torque you have to include the radius at which the clamping force acts upon the disc (known as effective radius). Increasing the effective radius via a larger disc increases the amount of brake torque on a given axle. You also have to take into account brake pad coefficient of friction...
Hi J,@ Essex,

Really appreciate the detailed and considered reply. Again, I am not much more than a novice here, so keen to learn, however I have a logical brain so very curious as to the choices you have made with your kit.

I understand that increasing the distance of the caliper from the centre of the wheel will increase brake torque and hence alter the bias, so you have reduced piston area accordingly to maintain balance. Surely however, this does not compensate for the reduction in pedal travel, and hence increased firmness caused by using a 9% smaller piston area, or is this number simply too little to be significant?

Also - I understand that you might want to reduce piston area on the front as a result of going larger on the disc diameter in order to maintain brake torque close to stock, however as you have actually gone for a smaller than stock disc on the rear, as well as smaller piston area, isn't that counter intuitive?

Obviously I don't want you to give away any proprietary secrets, however can I assume that you have deliberately decided to increase pedal firmness and reduce travel a little, for what you feel is a benefit to pedal feel? Did you perhaps find the stock pedal a little soft or the travel a little longer than optimal? Curious as to the thinking here.

Cheers.
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2020, 09:31 AM   #16
jritt@essex
Captain
jritt@essex's Avatar
United_States
1019
Rep
839
Posts

Drives: e90 335i, NSX, 997.2, 987.1
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

We view a brake system as precisely that, a system. All the components must work together in harmony to produce the greatest result. When we design a kit, we are considering a much larger range of factors at both the system level and the component level than people typically suspect. The process is far more exhaustive than examining a simple spreadsheet or recipe of numbers. For example, when we design a component or decide upon a disc to use for a particular vehicle, our team does not sit down at a table and say, “Let’s use a 380mm disc and a red four piston caliper. Okay, we’re done here.” Our discussions are more along the lines of considering disc diameter, disc wall thickness, air gap, flange thickness, number of mounting points, number of internal vanes, shape of the internal vanes, radial depth, pad location relative to the disc hat, disc hat offset, moving the centerline of the disc to allow wheel spoke clearance or not hitting suspension arms, etc. With calipers and adapter brackets we’re looking at pad volume, pad surface area, pad thickness, caliper stiffness, caliper cooling, potential interaction with brake ducts, wheel spoke clearance, pad location on the disc, piston sizes, piston material and ventilation, anti-knockback spring weight, bracket shape and stress points, bracket weight, size of the bracket studs, etc.

We also have a brake dynamometer at our facility, on which we do a great deal of testing. We test our own products incessantly, replicating specific racetrack simulations. We test with brake pad manufacturers. We test with professional race teams from IMSA, IndyCar, and NASCAR Cup. Below is a pic I just snapped of the same CP9660 Radi-CAL we use in our e90 M3 brake kits, that is currently bolted up to our dyno and is being intentionally beaten to hell and back.



We also test at the racetrack. We recently installed our Pro5000 Radi-CAL system on a client’s C8 Corvette and took it to Road Atlanta with a retired pro driver. We collected and analyzed a large volume of data at the track. You can see some of the video captured during those days below.



We also look specifically at how our customers are using their cars. For some chassis, we have an array of brake kits of different sizes and configurations based on how the owner is using their car. What is optimum for a daily driver certainly isn’t optimum for endurance racing. Will a sub-par brake integration using a mish-mash of components technically bolt onto a car? Possibly. Will it suck at the tail-end of a 3 hour race, very likely yes. Even if ‘the numbers’ line up on paper (piston sizes, effective radius, etc.), that doesn’t come close to ensuring the desired performance or repeatability.

Something else we try to do as well as possible is listen to our customers. Our e90 brake kit range is a great example. When we launched our first system for this chassis, the front solution used a 355x32mm disc. That system was out for a couple years, had many thousands of track laps, including The 25 Hours of Thunderhill. After discussing that system with several customers/teams, we decided to increase the front disc size when we released our new Radi-CAL system from 355x32mm to 372x34mm, and we also added more internal vanes (from 72 to 84). What we were hearing was that our customers believed the tradeoff of a little more unsprung weight (4 lbs.) was worth the additional durability the 372mm discs would provide. Since our system with the larger 372mm discs is still lighter than the OEM system by 10 lbs. nothing was lost except unsprung weight! What was gained however, was considerable disc longevity, pads running cooler, caliper running cooler, etc. They asked for it, so we gave them what they wanted.

Over time, we also see some chassis develop into new areas that place greater demands on the brakes. This is particularly true of newer vehicle releases. When a vehicle is first released it has a performance envelope limited by the total available upgrades for that platform. Over time however, upgrades come into play that make the platform considerably faster, and potentially much harder on brakes. By three years in, the performance envelope of a given chassis may be far higher than it was upon release. As noted in the video in my previous post, we try to take that into account. Sometimes however, we must adjust and adapt as real-world data comes in from the field, and the resulting decisions are based on analysis and experience.

Essex has been in business since 1981, and AP Racing has been around considerably longer. AP has more engineers than any other type of employee short of product assembly, and we have our own internal engineering team (including an AP Racing engineer on staff). We have 24 employees that do almost nothing but design, build, and service brakes all day (we do a tiny bit of wheels, heat barrier products, etc., but almost exclusively brakes). Most of our staff have decades of experience in brakes and racing. Our engineering director is widely regarded as one of the foremost experts on brake and clutch systems. He was the technical director at Tilton for over a decade before joining Essex over a decade ago. He is frequently the chief design judge for Formula SAE, and he has likely forgotten more about brakes than anyone on this forum has ever known. He is the guy to whom you hand two pieces of twine, a toothpick, and some bubble gum, and he builds you a weapon. AP Racing’s staff is also loaded with brilliant engineers who have been there for 4-5 decades in some cases. The AP engineer who works out of our office has been with AP for over 40 years!

We also pride ourselves on service, which is an important factor when considering a brake system. We have a trained staff on hand available by phone, chat, and email. Our customers call us all the time with questions ranging from incredibly mundane to exceedingly technical, and we are there answer them all. We’re also long-time Bimmerpost forum sponsors, and we spend a good deal of our time posting here to help people with their brake issues (in many cases when they aren’t even related to the products we offer).

Spares are also an important part of the picture. We hold hundreds of sets of spare discs and pads on-hand in our warehouse. It’s not uncommon to be prepping your car for the track on a Thursday, only to find an inner pad is worn a lot further than you expected. When that happens, you want to grab the phone, talk to a live human, get expert advice, and have a replacement on the way asap so you don’t miss the track day for which you’ve already paid. That’s what our customers receive as part of our package. What you don’t want is to and track down six different suppliers, pray that someone has what you need in stock, or deal with some guy sitting in his mom’s basement on the other side of the world.

Without all the intense design consideration, testing, and real-world feedback, analyzed by experienced experts, a brake kit is nothing more than a hodgepodge of random metal bits. When was the last time Le Mans was won by taking the calipers from a Subaru STI and bolting them to a Corvette? Never. When was the last time Le Mans was won by a well-considered, explicitly designed AP Racing brake system tailored to that specific vehicle? Last year…and the year before that, and the year before that, and so on. AP Racing produced the graph below a couple years back to illustrate the success they had in professional racing that year. They also now have over 800 Formula 1 wins on their brake and clutch products!

When the above mix comes together, it can have an impact greater than the sum of the parts, and it produces an overwhelmingly positive experience. That’s what we are trying to achieve with our brake systems: to continually make our customer’s time at the track easier, more fun, and less stressful. Why is that our goal? Because just about everyone on our staff has been to the track with their own car at some point. We know how miserable it is to be wrenching, cursing, and bleeding, while covered in brake fluid. We don’t want that for our customers, and frankly wouldn’t wish that on our enemies.

Our customers are benefiting from our above commitment every weekend at the racetrack. If you look at the customer feedback on our Essex Blog, the result is championship-winning durability, longevity, feel, control, ease of servicing, ease of install, readily available spares, etc. I’m proud to say that we have an extremely high level of satisfaction among our owners, and they all feel that our systems are a good value, even if they are more expensive than the competition.

To answer your original question about piston sizing more succinctly: We do what we feel the chassis needs at the time, based on the extremely wide variety of reasons listed above. We don’t make decisions based on any one factor in isolation, and we don’t implement specific components on a given vehicle without a great deal of consideration. We certainly don't blindly follow a handful of numbers on a spreadsheet. We take a holistic approach that involves specific design decisions in numerous areas, a significant amount of testing, a long-running customer feedback loop, and a great deal of experience. Anyone is free to compare what we do and how we do it with anything else on the market, but we believe our unique approach ultimately provides the greatest value to the owner. Our rapidly growing and enthusiastic tribe of satisfied owners is the proof of concept.

Anything less than the above would be a disservice to our customers and would do nothing to separate us from the host of people we see slapping Brembo calipers from a Mercedes on their M car. Our customers are those who prefer not to leave anything to chance when hurtling towards a wall at 160 mph, and they value everything I’ve noted above. It’s why we are able to exist and keep doing what we’re doing.

I went on our blog and searched 'championship'. To be clear, Essex directly supports and services all of these teams. We do so with the same staff that designs and builds our brake systems for the e90 M3, using the same quality of components and the same design process. In no particular order:

IMSA: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...asons-20142016

NASCAR Cup: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...racing-radical

USTCC: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...-racing-brakes

NASCAR Xfinity: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...-racing-brakes

NASA Endurance: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...rint-brake-kit

NASCAR Cup: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...p-championship

SCCA: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...regional-champ

NASA: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog/team-gspeed-win

NASA (first time our CP9660 Radi-CAL was ever raced)- https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...p-video-inside


Below is a list AP Racing published at the end of 2018 for the professional racing championships won by their brake and clutch products (I can't find my 2019 list right now).


Last edited by jritt@essex; 10-01-2020 at 09:40 AM.. Reason: added video
Appreciate 1
DR-JEKL897.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST