E9x M3 vs. E46 M3 Driving Experience (2021 Edition)

[TboneS54]

For pure fun (street or track), I'd say a euro E36 is the best M car (fitted with carbon airbox).

Or S54 swapped u.s. e36. Which I believe you did track, Ian.

Though, with enough effort and $, an E46 could be made to be almost as raw/light/fun since the E46 is, of course, a supped up E36.

I don't want it to come across like I don't think the E9x is special, because it is. The redesign of the chassis, alone, gives superior mechanical grip. It, not the E46, is the very end of the analogue line for BMW - it still has hydro steering, still naturally aspirated, still high rpm. A bit too refined and heavy if I'm just choosing a car to have a fun experience in (why I say E36/E46), but a wonderful car overall and a fantastic track car, (as all BMW Ms are, let's be honest - the F/G ones for PBs, not fun due to e-steering and turdbro).

And DCT, holy shit (for PBs partcularly, like [a well functioning] SMG). That's why I believe I have the best combo - 6spd e46, dct e90, both slicktop.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I would gladly drive the Honest Assembly e30.

Hesus that thing is gnarly - didn't even know S55 would fit in that chassis. I'd be cool with owning that thing for sure

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Funnily enough the G is the only M3 I have no desire to own

Well that and the E30 *flame suit on*

Here let me catch some of those flames for you

I like the G80M for the manual rear drive version. Auto AWD stupid-fast cars are a dime a dozen at this point.. But that's more a "I'm glad it exists so I'm not screwed if I have to choose from a new car" than an "I want to own."

The E46 remains an awkward-driving limit handler. But it's hairy-chested and I respect it for that, particularly the SMG. Still sounds terrible. If you like the E46M and don't like the F80M, I am confused. The F80 and the E46 are basically the same car, with the same do-something-you-expect-occasionally chassis dynamics, but one is fast and handles well, and oversteers because it has front grip followed by no rear grip, rather than no front grip followed by no rear grip

The E30M was no better than the 325is

The E36M was the best use of dished wheels ever, but otherwise, mehhhhh

The E90M, and only the manual, single-hump, slicktop E90M, is the best car ever made or that ever will be made, by anyone.

i have spoken

[TboneS54]

Single or double hump is very irrelevant to performance. It's much more a case of desirability due to spec/rarity. Not that I don't like simplicity, but it's a useless thing to list as a top reason why one car is objectively better than another. Like saying a car without pdc is better than one with. Marginally, from one point of view.

And dct is far superior to manual, unless if you only mean in the fun department.

[911r]

Originally Posted by lagunablue1

What's with the level of inferiority complex in this thread?

The E46 M3 and E92 M3 are both fantastic cars that follow a very similar formula and both have their own unique flaws.

There is no "correct" answer, neither is "better" than the other, just different.

Completely agreed. I’ve owned a handful of each. Up to 4 E46 M3s and 5 E9x M3s, currently owning an E46. Whenever I have an E46, part of me wants an E9x and vice versa.

That being said, the S65 will always be (to me) one of the most special engines ever put into a production car with incredible motorsports heritage. The S54 will always be (to me) a more modern euro-spec S50 based on an M54.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by TboneS54

Single or double hump is very irrelevant to performance. It's much more a case of desirability due to spec/rarity. Not that I don't like simplicity, but it's a useless thing to list as a top reason why one car is objectively better than another. Like saying a car without pdc is better than one with. Marginally, from one point of view.

And dct is far superior to manual, unless if you only mean in the fun department.

lol watch out guys we've got a high-functioning sense of humor over here

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Z K

And yes, 4 tires fit in the back seat of the E9x. It's a bigger car so more interior and trunk space than a E46. Bonus for E90 owners as having back doors make loading wheels and tires much easier!

I didn't know if the wider tires run on the e9X would be more biggerer than the interior width. Four 285s side by side pretty well maxes out the back seat width of the e46 (but, happily, is about as big as you'd want to run under the stock fenders.

Lack of a sedan option is the single worst thing about the e46 M3, IMO. Vert is the worst form of any M3, and coupe is the 2nd worst. That's actually why my daily was an M3 converted e46 wagon for several years.

[TboneS54]

Originally Posted by Richbot

lol watch out guys we've got a high-functioning sense of humor over here

Can't tell what's satire or reality in this world anymore.

[14_deltaM3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I didn't know if the wider tires run on the e9X would be more biggerer than the interior width. Four 285s side by side pretty well maxes out the back seat width of the e46 (but, happily, is about as big as you'd want to run under the stock fenders.

Lack of a sedan option is the single worst thing about the e46 M3, IMO. Vert is the worst form of any M3, and coupe is the 2nd worst. That's actually why my daily was an M3 converted e46 wagon for several years.

Goodness me I’d love any wagon M3.

I once had an e91 328xi, and would regularly daydream about having my m3 engine in it. An e46 wagon with an s54 would be equally appealing as a do almost everything car. How did you find owning a converted car?

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by 14_deltaM3

Goodness me I’d love any wagon M3.

I once had an e91 328xi, and would regularly daydream about having my m3 engine in it. An e46 wagon with an s54 would be equally appealing as a do almost everything car. How did you find owning a converted car?

Mine had all the stuff that makes an M3 drive like an M3– not just the engine.

So, it was like driving a stock M3– but one I could put more stuff in. I enjoyed it, but ultimately it was undermined by being constantly compared my e46 M3 coupe being <3100 lbs and ~430hp, with brakes/suspension/seats to match. Replaced it with the e60 M5 to have a greater variety of experiences.

My wife’s e91 (Rwd 6mt) was nice, but ultimately the e9X sucks to work on compared to older BMWs… it got too annoying to own after ~100,000 miles. I replaced it with the e46 M3 conversion wagon and we drove it to 214,000 miles— the e46 wagon was much more enjoyable upkeep, had a bigger back seat (leg room and head room), had a spare tire, has a nicer interior, has better headlights, and the tech was better with a CarPlay head unit… and dynamically was in a different league, thanks to the M3 conversion.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I didn't know if the wider tires run on the e9X would be more biggerer than the interior width. Four 285s side by side pretty well maxes out the back seat width of the e46 (but, happily, is about as big as you'd want to run under the stock fenders.

Lack of a sedan option is the single worst thing about the e46 M3, IMO. Vert is the worst form of any M3, and coupe is the 2nd worst. That's actually why my daily was an M3 converted e46 wagon for several years.

I usually stuff 1 wheel in the trunk and 3 in the backseat on my 275 square set up. Lately I just drive to the track on semi slicks. I don't like the tires and wheels getting my backseat dirty and scratching the leather.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Z K

I usually stuff 1 wheel in the trunk and 3 in the backseat on my 275 square set up. Lately I just drive to the track on semi slicks. I don't like the tires and wheels getting my backseat dirty and scratching the leather.

I throw a blanket back there for that reason.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by TboneS54

For pure fun (street or track), I'd say a euro E36 is the best M car (fitted with carbon airbox).

Or S54 swapped u.s. e36. Which I believe you did track, Ian.

Though, with enough effort and $, an E46 could be made to be almost as raw/light/fun since the E46 is, of course, a supped up E36.

I don't want it to come across like I don't think the E9x is special, because it is. The redesign of the chassis, alone, gives superior mechanical grip. It, not the E46, is the very end of the analogue line for BMW - it still has hydro steering, still naturally aspirated, still high rpm. A bit too refined and heavy compared to the E36s if I'm just choosing a car to have a fun experience in (why I say E36/E46), but a wonderful car overall and a fantastic track car, (as all BMW Ms are, let's be honest - the F/G ones for PBs, not fun due to e-steering and turdbro).

And DCT, holy shit (for PBs partcularly, like [a well functioning] SMG). That's why I believe I have the best combo - 6spd e46, dct e90, both slicktop.

Small correction. E46 and E92 were nearly identical in weight, with E92 having a lower CoG thanks to the CFRP roof.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Small correction. E46 and E92 were nearly identical in weight, with E92 having a lower CoG thanks to the CFRP roof.

That statement is incorrect.

You can find overlap if you compare a fully optioned e46 to a stripper e9x, and compare full tanks to empty tanks, etc, but like for like the e9x is significantly heavier (and harder to take weight off of, thanks to things like that stock cfrp roof).

I actually make an effort to weight random cars that are at my house, on my corner balancing scales. All weights are adjusted to be as if the car had 5/8 of a tank of gas and no driver is in the car.

I try to take pictures of them on the scales, in case anyone doesn't believe me:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1554802

Even my fully optioned, sunroof, M3 converted wagon was 200 lbs lighter than a striper e90 M3 (no sunroof, no drive, manual, 18s).

... and my full interior, full weight exhaust e46 M3 coupe is 550 lbs lighter :P
(some effort put into weight saving that, but it's not stripped out in any way-- full interior, child seat in the back as we speak, quiet (heavy) exhaust-- fully civilized still)

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Obioban

That statement is incorrect.

You can find overlap if you compare a fully optioned e46 to a stripper e9x, and compare full tanks to empty tanks, etc, but like for like the e9x is significantly heavier (and harder to take weight off of, thanks to things like that stock cfrp roof).

I actually make an effort to weight random cars that are at my house, on my corner balancing scales. All weights are adjusted to be as if the car had 5/8 of a tank of gas and no driver is in the car.

I try to take pictures of them on the scales, in case anyone doesn't believe me:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1554802

Even my fully optioned, sunroof, M3 converted wagon was 200 lbs lighter than a striper e90 M3 (no sunroof, no drive, manual, 18s).

... and my full interior, full weight exhaust e46 M3 coupe is 550 lbs lighter :P
(some effort put into weight saving that, but it's not stripped out in any way-- full interior, child seat in the back as we speak, quiet (heavy) exhaust-- fully civilized still)

E90 is two more doors than the E92, does not have a CFRP roof, and the 18s on E92s are heavier than the 19" 220M Fuchs. My moderately optioned E92 6MT weighs 1570kg with 1/2 tank.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

E90 is two more doors than the E92, does not have a CFRP roof, and the 18s on E92s are heavier than the 19" 220M Fuchs. My moderately optioned E92 6MT weighs 1570kg with 1/2 tank.

That’s why I brought up the context of my m3 converted wagon with sunroof ��

That said, I think you're over emphasizing the importance of the CFRP roof (and that's said as someone who retrofitted a CF roof on his e46). Per BMW, the CFRP e92 roof is 3.675 kg lighter than the steel e92 roof:
Steel: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=41317179797
CFRP: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=54108045327

1570kg with a half tank is ~160 lbs heavier than a moderately optioned no sunroof e46 m3 coupe with a half tank.

BMW didn’t lie with their curb weights.

Pics of your car on scales?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I throw a blanket back there for that reason.

I still don't like that. And I did that before when transporting wheels.

I keep my leather cleaned and conditioned in showroom condition. The novillo leather is super soft and delicate. It'll crease with any pressure on it. I hate it but I try to keep it in good condition, same as the rest of the car.

I've replaced the front seats with Recaros for track grip but also to preserve the original front seat condition.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Z K

I still don't like that. And I did that before when transporting wheels.

I keep my leather cleaned and conditioned in showroom condition. The novillo leather is super soft and delicate. It'll crease with any pressure on it. I hate it but I try to keep it in good condition, same as the rest of the car.

I've replaced the front seats with Recaros for track grip but also to preserve the original front seat condition.

Dude you’re driving on track. Tools not jewels. Just let it go and you’ll feel 500lbs lighter from released worry.

Just kidding! I totally understand the desire to keep it spotless. I just gave up… Now I’m on a slippery slope to giving too little shits.

[PYE46M3]

You know the discussion has turned into a complete freaking joke when people start talking about how many sets of wheels/tires fit in the backseat of the car to argue one is better than the other.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by PYE46M3

You know the discussion has turned into a complete freaking joke when people start talking about how many sets of wheels/tires fit in the backseat of the car to argue one is better than the other.

true, but also, spoken like a Z4 owner

my metric is whether the one pound per wheel heavier 219M front wheels come up. That's how you know it's gonna be a one-man LAN party

My modded E90M is 3500 with ~half a tank, ~100lb heavier than my dead-stock E46 328i was with a full tank, therefore, chewbacca is a wookie

[PYE46M3]

Originally Posted by Richbot

true, but also, spoken like a Z4 owner

my metric is whether the one pound per wheel heavier 219M front wheels come up. That's how you know it's gonna be a one-man LAN party

My modded E90M is 3500 with ~half a tank, ~100lb heavier than my dead-stock E46 328i was with a full tank, therefore, chewbacca is a wookie

Lol yeah! And I love driving the Z4M. When that thing jumps across 4 lanes of the highway like a cricket the last thing you care about is the sound of the motor or lack of rear seat to haul crap in. Each car has its own pros and cons.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Richbot

My modded E90M is 3500 with ~half a tank, ~100lb heavier than my dead-stock E46 328i was with a full tank, therefore, chewbacca is a wookie

Stop it. Makes me want to cancel my G87 order and buy a pristine, slick top E90 M3.