Bought CPO 18 M5 to replace CPO 08 M3

[pbonsalb]

After 10 great years with the E90 M3, I am moving on to an F90 M5. I have been thinking about this for a few years and was tempted by only 2 cars, a late model AWD 911 Turbo and a late model mid-size AWD cruiser like the E63 AMG or Panamerica Turbo or RS7 or M5.

I nearly bought a 991.2 911 Turbo earlier this year, but the deal did not go through. I kept shopping but prices kept rising to the point where they were 10-20% higher than last year due to limited supply and the new model just coming to market. I will add one in 2-3 years.

In the meantime, I decided to go ahead with the mid-size cruiser. I wanted something fast, comfortable with a bit of luxury, AWD to put the power down and to make winter driving easier, not too heavy, and that handled better than just OK. The F90 M5 fit those criteria best. I did not buy the competition model due to concerns about the rough ride, and I will mod the M5 a little. I know the M5 won’t have the feel or sound or handling of the E9x M3. It will be a good companion to the 911 Turbo and after a couple of years with the M5, I will likely be ready for a car with feel and sound and handling. In the meantime, my turbo E36 M3 will have to provide those things.

[slcook54]

Former turbo E36 M3 owner too. I'll start shopping for a 991.2 turbo in the new year. It's really the one car that can do it all. Can have a baby seat for my daughter, awd, 4 wheel steer, front axle lift and easy to extract a lot of power. Have you seen Cicio's new kit on Motec? Pretty awesome bang for the buck.

The F90 M5 was in there too, but living in San Francisco, it's just too big for me, I'd probably go F80 M3, but no AWD.

E92 M3 will become more track focused once the turbo arrives.

Congrats on the purchase. Let's see some pics.

[Longboarder]

Congrats!! Definitely a great upgrade to the e90 with 4 doors, a badass TTv8 that sounds amazing and a nice front kidney.

[Helmsman]

Congrats man! Know you've been shopping around for quite some time so had to eventually happen. Hope you take time to pop by the old board to say hello and tell us about the new ride.

[SYT_Shadow]

Sounds pretty exciting. The F90 M5 is like a grown up version of the M3, in that it's great at everything.

Looking forward to your slow progression from civilized stock car to uncivilized monster!

[kyrix1st]

Did you put out your E90 for sale?

[pbonsalb]

Not publicly. A fairly local member of this forum had previously expressed interest should I want to sell it so I reached to him and he test drove it and wants to buy it so I think it is sold. Buyer picked up the 2008 M3 today; BMW delivered the 2018 M5 yesterday.

[SYT_Shadow]

We need a review! Great look with both Ms!

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We need a review! Great look with both Ms!

I did one posted somewhere here on E92 M3 vs M8 coupe. Landslide victory for E92. I have a feeling the M5 would fare a bit better.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I did one posted somewhere here on E92 M3 vs M8 coupe. Landslide victory for E92. I have a feeling the M5 would fare a bit better.

I remember!

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I remember!

I think the M5 solves the biggest problems of the M8 which is a lack of any usable rear seat space and poor driver visibility. Most other traits of the M8 and M5 are the same. I love coupes but would have been a better choice in hindsight to get the M5. Looking forward the e90vsM5 review.

[tdott]

Congrats!

Best of luck with the new beast.

[Vuu]

Man 10 years, that's amazing.

Let's hear more about the turbo e36!

[pbonsalb]

I really enjoyed the E90 M3, and feel like 10 years was enough time with it. Both I and the car aged, and I think I outgrew it as my primary driver. I wanted something newer, a little bigger and more comfortable, more technologically advanced, with AWD, and automatic. Maybe a 2013 E92 M3 DCT would have worked fine, but after 10 years, a new experience is fine with me.

I did not fully appreciate the E90 M3, probably like most owners. I went to one BMW advanced driving school, right after I bought it, in 2011. That is it. Sure, I had fun on windy roads and on/off ramps, but those moments are the tiniest fraction of my driving. I think a track person would better appreciate what these cars can do. Straight line acceleration, which is the thrill I experience the most in my driving, was good but not exceptional. With some mods, these cars pull nicely even at lower rpm, but the real thrill is 5500-8500 and honestly, I did not spend a lot of time in that range in my street driving. Some may live near canyons or mountains, but here in the densely populated Northeast, it is riskier. Sure, I ran to redline sometimes, but it is a lot of work with a 6 speed if you want to row the gears to redline. A DCT would be much easier since it does the work for you.

I knew that what I would be getting would be heavier, more insulated from the road, and have a lot less feel. The F90 M5 is a step down in terms of feel. It does have high limits and handles pretty well for its mass -- probably 600 lbs more than my E90 M3, but lacks character. However, it is probably the best or near the best in its class -- Audi RS6 or RS7, Panamerica Turbo, AMG E63. It is very fast, which I like -- 125-130 in the quarter at around 11.0 seconds bone stock. I added a JB4 piggyback and am about to add meth, but will probably leave it at that for a while and add downpipes later. With those mods, people have gotten into the lower 10s at 135+, which is pretty good for a comfortable mid size sedan.

I nearly bought a 2017 991.2 Turbo in February. I had an offer that was accepted, but we had issues with the transfer since it was a private party car across the country. 911 Turbo prices had been creeping up, but are about 10-15% higher now so I decided to push the 911 Turbo back and replace the primary driver E90 M3 now instead. I will probably still buy the 911 Turbo in a year or two. I think it will be serve me better as more of a toy than a primary driver. With $15-20k worth of mods, they run in the 9s in the mid 140s in the quarter and weigh 3500 lbs, in addition to handling really well. A GT3 would handle better but would be slower and I would prefer the Turbo for my driving.

In the meantime, my toy will continue to be my turbo E36 M3. It is getting a little rough around the edges so I may strip it down and send it to the body shop for paint and some rust work this winter. I have a 75 2002 coming back that I must reassemble first. I have had the turbo E36 M3 for 16 years, with a supercharger for a few years and a turbo since 2010. It has a built shortblock and worked head, and an EFR 9180 turbo. A run years ago with a different turbo and stock head gave 677 rwhp on a Dynojet in SAE, but I think it would be more like 725 now, and that is on pump gas plus meth -- no special tricks like filling up with race gas since I just don't bother with that. It also has a worked suspension including TCK SA coilovers. The current trans is a GS6-53 very similar to the one in the E90 M3, but I think I will change to an overdrive automatic or maybe convert to a DCT -- a few have done DCT conversions with turbo E36. The E36 still has AC and heat and stereo and full interior though the rollbar makes the back seat useless. If it is not comfortable, I probably won't drive it as much, so I have not gutted it like many do.

I am content ... for now.

[94jedi]

Definitely a nice upgrade. I think you'll be happy with the M5 as a daily, aside from the battle scars daily's seem to accumulate. I've mentioned this elsewhere on the forums but I too replaced an 08, e90 manual slicktop with an M5; however it was a 2015 F10 Comp Pack. At the time, I was commuting and didn't want to put needless miles on my e90 (had 74k when I sold it). I too wanted more luxury and ultimately, I was seduced by the power of the s63TU. The M5 I bought had a dealer installed Dinan tune so the idea of 700 crank hp was just too much to ignore. The car was stupid fast; cruising on the highway at 110 felt like 55. Then covid hit, I stopped commuting for work and stopped driving. The M5 became a weekend toy by default; a once in a while driver. For that purpose, it was no good. Too big, too fat, not agile enough and dare I say - too fast. I quickly realized that speed isn't everything and I missed the theater, the drama, the experience of the s65 and the smaller footprint of the e9x M3. Plus, after the F90's, I was jonesin' for a CF roof. I missed out on it in my e90, obviously my F10 M5 didn't have that as an option, so found a e92, manual w/ a CF roof. Having both the F10 and the e92 at the same time was perfect. I had the family "toyota camry" sedan when I needed it, the cyber-executive autobahn missile/stop light monster, and I had the fun weekend back roads coupe w/ the visceral s65. Problem was, I was never driving either car! Around September of 2020, my wife's 2013 X5 started giving us some problems...damn N55. I'd already done the OFHG, VCG, WP, TSTAT, and a few other things but nearing 100k miles, it was time for a new family SUV. With 3 potentially "needy" BMW's in the stable, and with me not driving, it was time to cut bait. I sold the M5, sold the X5 and bought a new Lexus RX for my wife lol.

So with all that said, for your purpose, I think you'll love the M5, especially w/ the improvements the F90 brought over the F10. Additionally, with a 991 in the garage as the fun car, you won't have that "I need a smaller, more nimble, more engaging car" feeling I had.

I'd be curious, however, to hear your 6 month ownership thoughts. The Interior of the F90 is intoxicating...so rich, and plush. Another point I'd like to hear your thoughts on is the gauge cluster. As much as I love the F90, I'm not sure I can ever get used to the digital cluster. I figured the F80 M3 would be a decent compromise, should I need another commuter. What are your thoughts there?

Either way, congrats on the upgrade and I'm definitely envious of the F90!

[pbonsalb]

I wanted AWD since I drive year round in NH so the F80 M3 and F10 M5 were not options. I don’t really care about keeping miles down or preserving the car for it’s next owner. I buy them for me to enjoy. I have zero interest in a Camry or commuter car — why spend the majority of my driving time driving something I don’t like?

I’d buy a car you like to drive as your daily driver. I think an F80 M3 would be faster, more modern, more comfortable and handle better than an E9x M3, but would have less road feel and would have a much less linear power curve if the long slow power delivery of the S65 is important to you. I would think of it as a smaller F10 M5; if you liked the F10 but would be fine with a smaller version or would prefer the nimbleness of a smaller version, go for it. Or just drive the E9xM3.

I live 2 blocks from work so I walk. When I drive, I want to enjoy driving. I probably drive my cars (E36 and E90 now F80) about 10k miles a year. My wife sometimes wants to take her car, so I want that to be OK to drive as well. She had an E61 535xi that I put a JB4 on for my entertainment, but like my E90 M3, we had it for 10 years and it was time for a change. We bought a 21 Cayenne S. I wanted the Turbo and she would have been happy with the Base. We tried compromising on the GTS but she did not like the loud exhaust or blacked out gangster look so we had to compromise on the S. I have a JB4 to install on it. We drive her car about 12k miles a year.

I’ll try to post back in 6 months. 1 week and 500 miles is not enough for a good comparison. I doubt I will be unhappy and wish I had kept the E90 M3 instead. At best, I might wish I had kept it while also buying the F90 M5.

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I wanted AWD since I drive year round in NH so the F80 M3 and F10 M5 were not options. I don’t really care about keeping miles down or preserving the car for it’s next owner. I buy them for me to enjoy. I have zero interest in a Camry or commuter car — why spend the majority of my driving time driving something I don’t like?

I’d buy a car you like to drive as your daily driver. I think an F80 M3 would be faster, more modern, more comfortable and handle better than an E9x M3, but would have less road feel and would have a much less linear power curve if the long slow power delivery of the S65 is important to you. I would think of it as a smaller F10 M5; if you liked the F10 but would be fine with a smaller version or would prefer the nimbleness of a smaller version, go for it. Or just drive the E9xM3.

I live 2 blocks from work so I walk. When I drive, I want to enjoy driving. I probably drive my cars (E36 and E90 now F80) about 10k miles a year. My wife sometimes wants to take her car, so I want that to be OK to drive as well. She had an E61 535xi that I put a JB4 on for my entertainment, but like my E90 M3, we had it for 10 years and it was time for a change. We bought a 21 Cayenne S. I wanted the Turbo and she would have been happy with the Base. We tried compromising on the GTS but she did not like the loud exhaust or blacked out gangster look so we had to compromise on the S. I have a JB4 to install on it. We drive her car about 12k miles a year.

I’ll try to post back in 6 months. 1 week and 500 miles is not enough for a good comparison. I doubt I will be unhappy and wish I had kept the E90 M3 instead. At best, I might wish I had kept it while also buying the F90 M5.

Definitely not suggesting anyone drive a camry - my comparison was the dual-nature of the F10 M5 - comfort, easy to drive, great gas mileage (for an M car), and legit 700hp beast, if you want it.

I wholeheartedly agree - drive what you like! I drove a 2006 civic and a 2014 prius at different times as commuters and it nearly broke my soul lol

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I really enjoyed the E90 M3, and feel like 10 years was enough time with it. Both I and the car aged, and I think I outgrew it as my primary driver. I wanted something newer, a little bigger and more comfortable, more technologically advanced, with AWD, and automatic. Maybe a 2013 E92 M3 DCT would have worked fine, but after 10 years, a new experience is fine with me.

I did not fully appreciate the E90 M3, probably like most owners. I went to one BMW advanced driving school, right after I bought it, in 2011. That is it. Sure, I had fun on windy roads and on/off ramps, but those moments are the tiniest fraction of my driving. I think a track person would better appreciate what these cars can do. Straight line acceleration, which is the thrill I experience the most in my driving, was good but not exceptional. With some mods, these cars pull nicely even at lower rpm, but the real thrill is 5500-8500 and honestly, I did not spend a lot of time in that range in my street driving. Some may live near canyons or mountains, but here in the densely populated Northeast, it is riskier. Sure, I ran to redline sometimes, but it is a lot of work with a 6 speed if you want to row the gears to redline. A DCT would be much easier since it does the work for you.

I knew that what I would be getting would be heavier, more insulated from the road, and have a lot less feel. The F90 M5 is a step down in terms of feel. It does have high limits and handles pretty well for its mass -- probably 600 lbs more than my E90 M3, but lacks character. However, it is probably the best or near the best in its class -- Audi RS6 or RS7, Panamerica Turbo, AMG E63. It is very fast, which I like -- 125-130 in the quarter at around 11.0 seconds bone stock. I added a JB4 piggyback and am about to add meth, but will probably leave it at that for a while and add downpipes later. With those mods, people have gotten into the lower 10s at 135+, which is pretty good for a comfortable mid size sedan.

I nearly bought a 2017 991.2 Turbo in February. I had an offer that was accepted, but we had issues with the transfer since it was a private party car across the country. 911 Turbo prices had been creeping up, but are about 10-15% higher now so I decided to push the 911 Turbo back and replace the primary driver E90 M3 now instead. I will probably still buy the 911 Turbo in a year or two. I think it will be serve me better as more of a toy than a primary driver. With $15-20k worth of mods, they run in the 9s in the mid 140s in the quarter and weigh 3500 lbs, in addition to handling really well. A GT3 would handle better but would be slower and I would prefer the Turbo for my driving.

In the meantime, my toy will continue to be my turbo E36 M3. It is getting a little rough around the edges so I may strip it down and send it to the body shop for paint and some rust work this winter. I have a 75 2002 coming back that I must reassemble first. I have had the turbo E36 M3 for 16 years, with a supercharger for a few years and a turbo since 2010. It has a built shortblock and worked head, and an EFR 9180 turbo. A run years ago with a different turbo and stock head gave 677 rwhp on a Dynojet in SAE, but I think it would be more like 725 now, and that is on pump gas plus meth -- no special tricks like filling up with race gas since I just don't bother with that. It also has a worked suspension including TCK SA coilovers. The current trans is a GS6-53 very similar to the one in the E90 M3, but I think I will change to an overdrive automatic or maybe convert to a DCT -- a few have done DCT conversions with turbo E36. The E36 still has AC and heat and stereo and full interior though the rollbar makes the back seat useless. If it is not comfortable, I probably won't drive it as much, so I have not gutted it like many do.

I am content ... for now.

I hadn't heard of a DCT swap into an E36. I'm thinking about doing another turbo E36 build. Where did you see that? Any links?

[pbonsalb]

Google dct e36 and you will find stuff but it is not all spelled out yet. I would be doing it if it was but am waiting for it to become simpler. Most of those who have done it, which is still a very small group, are on the Facebook boosted e36 forum and unfortunately that forum consists mostly of short posts that have limited detail.

[BadBoostedBMWM3]

Damn Phillip (IIRC, that's your name)... I didn't think it would happen because you are still hanging onto the turbo e36.

As for big cars, didn't you have a 535xi with a jb4 that rolled pretty good?

[pbonsalb]

Yes, the E61 535xi was my wife’s car so I could not mod it much it she would complain. She says I ruin my cars. I put only a JB4 on it and thought it moved pretty well. But it was an 08 like my E90 M3 and had 150k+ miles so we bought her a 21 Cayenne S and are giving the 535xi to a family friend who needs a car. I already bought a JB4 for the Cayenne but have not installed it yet. Stock the Cayenne S does 109 in the quarter according to C&D; the JB4 should raise that to 114 mph.

In addition to larger, more comfort, AWD and auto, I also wanted a newer, more modern, and faster car. The F90 M5 checks all those boxes. I lost the engine sound, gradual power band and road feel/handling of the E9x M3. It has that looseness or wiggle in the rear that a stock E9x M3 has that solid diff bushings help. I am already thinking of mods, probably along the lines of the competition series — stiffer engine mounts, monoballs, rear toe links, maybe lighter wheels over the next couple of years. Already put a JB4 on it and am about to install a meth kit that ties into the JB4 (both easily removed).

[Richbot]

The F90 is on my shortlist of depreciation-watch cars for 2023 to replace our W212 AMG. Love this generation's interior.

Assuming wifebot still wants a sedan, anyway. I can feel the pull of the tall wagon crossover siren song