help identifying new rod bolts

[Assimilator1]

So I emailed ARP regarding the -31 etc number (it is just a batch number) and the size of the ARP 625 bolt of which the ARP 2000 is based on (size wise).
Emails in reverse order.
In metric, grip length is 5.08 mm, thread length 14.605 mm.

Hi Mark,

The grip length is .200” and the thread length is .575”.

Best regards,
Zac Kimball

Technical Support
Automotive Racing Products, Inc.
800-826-3045
ARP-bolts.com

Hi Zac
Thanks for your reply.

I wonder if you could help me with something else, could you tell me the grip length and thread length of your ARP 625 bolt for the BMW M3 S65 engine? All I could find in your online pdf catalogue is the UHL for it.

Regards
Mark

On 31/08/2020 16:12, customerservice@mail.arp-bolts.com wrote:
>
> ##### Please type your reply above this line #####
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks for the inquiry. The numbers you referenced is an internal QC number we use on batches of rod bolts that allow us to have traceability back to those parts and their job number.
>
> Best regards,
> Zac Kimball
>
> Technical Support
> Automotive Racing Products, Inc.
> 800-826-3045
> ARP-bolts.com

Summarising:-

Plain ARP 2000 bolts sold by BE up to early 2020 - UHL 44.5 mm, grip (shoulder) length 6.5 mm, thread length 18 mm, M9, 1mm pitch, head size 12 point 3/8", batch -28 (Measurements by Frankc from here)
Plain ARP 2000 bolts sold by M Power .............. - UHL 45 mm, grip length 6.2 mm, thread length 18 mm, batch -35 (Q3 2022, measurements by m3s65b4.x)
BE stamped ARP 2000 bolts sold from early 2020 - UHL ~45 mm, grip length ~5 mm, thread length ~14.5 mm, head size 11 mm, 12 point
S65 ARP 625 .............................................. - UHL 45 mm, grip length 5.1 mm, thread length 14.6 mm
OEM bolt (used) .......................................... - UHL 44.5mm, grip length 3.5mm (+24mm of 'rings'), thread length 17mm, head diameter 15.37mm, thread diameter 8.87mm (measured by me here).
OEM bolt (new?) ......................................... - UHL 44mm, grip length 4.4mm, thread length 17mm (measurements by m3s65b4.x)

[Assimilator1]

Could people post measurements of the M power ARP 2000 and BE stamped BE ARP 2000 bolts so we can fill my table and conclude this?
Or a side by side shot of an M Power bolt with an earlier BE bolt without the BE stamp?

Oh and an OEM bolt measurements would be handy too .

TIA

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Could people post measurements of the M power ARP 2000 and BE stamped BE ARP 2000 bolts so we can fill my table and conclude this?
Or a side by side shot of an M Power bolt with an earlier BE bolt without the BE stamp?

Oh and an OEM bolt measurements would be handy too .

TIA

You're an demanding investigator Mark... Hows the 702/703 study go?

[Assimilator1]

Opps, forgot about that , even though it's by the side of my toolbox! I've set a reminder on my phone .

[tdott]

Copying this over from another thread. Good info, imo.

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

I'll tell you EXACTLY where all of these bolts come from. It all started with VAC. BE was originally sourcing the bolts from VAC until they accidentally shipped a batch without removing the original ARP part numbers.

All of these bolts from VAC, M-Power, and BE (prior to early 2020), started life as an ARP 234-6301 bolt for Chevrolet LS Gen III/IV & 6.2L LT1. The bolts have an SAE 12-point head, not metric 12-point head. The bolts are too long for S65/S85 connecting rods. VAC, M-Power, and BE all came up with their own machining specs based on these Chevrolet bolts. So each of them can factually claim that their bolts are their own design. Once received, each of them had them machined to their own specs. VAC presumably machined them in-house. M-Power and BE had them machined at their own machine shops. This explains why the dimple for the stretch gauge does not appear on any of these bolts -- because it was literally machined off. If you went down this exercise to measure all of them, you would probably find 10 different bolts from the SAME supplier would all be different; this is because the bolts are all machined manually.

However, BE did work that nobody else took the time to do. BE verified the bore distortion with each bolt and torque spec. Did VAC or M-Power do this? No. VAC still sends out bolts with the wrong torque spec which causes bore distortion. M-Power was sending out bolts with BE-ARP instructions and marketing as BE-ARP bolts even though they were not sourcing the bolts from BE. VAC is still charging $325 for their machined bolts, M-Power $260, and BE $295 -- as you say "all for the same bolt."

Once the machinist for BE retired, BE contacted ARP directly and had them design a fully custom ARP-2000 bolt according to BE specifications. The head is now a proper metric head. The stretch gauge dimple is now in the bolt because they are no longer machined from Chevrolet bolts. The price stayed the same even though the price of the bolts slightly increased.

There: mystery solved.

[Assimilator1]

Was going to myself, so thanks for that .

[redline9001]

Except with how different all of the bolts look in these pictures they are all not starting life out as the same bolt...

[Assimilator1]

Well I had the chance to measure the BE stamped ARP bolts as I got a set myself for my car. I thought they had already been measured though so I didn't bother! Doh!
However I did take these photos of one so I can at least give close approximations.





Excuse the inverted image

Still would be interested to see measurements of the original Mpower bolts (despite other questions having been answered).

[Abdul]

I don't want to revive a dead thread. But a few things were said about me that were false. And there is still some slight confusion on this topic. So before I start, let's play a game. Guess which bolt is BE-ARP, ARP2000 (M Power), and ARP 625.

[TX]

Abdul, OK lets play the game since you were rather disrespectful to me when I questioned you about your product more than once and you called me a liar.

I do not believe that anything was said that was incorrect about you or your business practices regarding the bolts or ACL shells. It was proven your ACL hand measured custom sets were nothing more than a split H and HX set in original heat shrink 100% untouched. It was proven that you were advertising BE bolts including their stock photo on your website and were selling your own custom machined ARP 2000 bolts off a factory Chevy bolt. You did later correct your website description and photos. Granted this was the original method from BE as well and you figured out their scheme and used it to continue your own bolts. The problem is when you continued to use the BE logo to sell their product and were shipping your custom bolts and not the BE bolts as they admitted to not selling you bolts for a rather lengthy time and yet told me you had them on order from them. So to continue since I have both bolts on hand.. which is which? It's pretty easy to tell. Sorry I don't have the aged 625 bolts.

[TX]

Oh one last comment. Your bolt showing the stretch dimple is the factory 625 bolt. The other two bolts are machined down ARP 2000 bolts. Neither of which is a current BE bolt which has been sold in the last 2 years?
Cheers Abdul.

[Assimilator1]

[edit] Just over 1yr since BE switched to their custom made BE stamped bolts.

All these good photos, and still no measurements of the Mpower bolts for my little table . I know it can be seen, and it has been said that those and the BE bolts up to early 2020 are the same, but the numbers would complete it.

Can someone measure the Underhead length (from under the head to the tip of the bolt/threads), grip length (the plain, shouldered part) and thread length of the just the Mpower bolt?
Ruler will do just fine, not looking for engineering precision

TX
Just to confirm, your photo is of an Mpower ARP 2000 bolt and a BE stamped ARP 2000 BE bolt right?

[TX]

That is correct.

[6spdvert]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Thanks for chiming in. Very displeased with the rod bolt service/shipping experience with M power. I'm just glad I was able to get the BE spec from turner on short notice last week since my car was scheduled for the RB service this week.

Will be attempting to return these on Monday.

Were you able to return these MPower rod bolts without an issues? Unfortunately I never seen this thread until now and well, I'm also not feeling to keen on using these.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by 6spdvert

Were you able to return these MPower rod bolts without an issues? Unfortunately I never seen this thread until now and well, I'm also not feeling to keen on using these.

It was incredibly difficult but I did manage to return them.

During the whole process the website was also changed and updated. When I purchased, there was a BE logo on the thumbnail for the rod bolt S65 order. About the time I tried returning they said they had changed the website to no longer have a BE logo on the rod bolt thumbnail image. Almost as if to tell me I should have known what I was ordering was not BE spec. But when I searched their website through google, the old website still showed up with the bolts being listed and the BE logo still present.

I had to send a screen recording of myself navigating their website with the clear evidence of BE logo misadvertising to get my bolts returned. I ended up ordering the bolts through turner and they were as described, BE spec, in the appropriate foam padded shipping insert.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by 6spdvert

Were you able to return these MPower rod bolts without an issues? Unfortunately I never seen this thread until now and well, I'm also not feeling to keen on using these.

Why are you worried? Whether it was when they were selling the BE boxed ARP 2000 bolts, the non BE boxed ARP 2000 bolts or the soon (?) to be custom ARP 2000 for Mpower, they are all made by ARP!
And not forgetting that the original 'BE' bolt (prior to the BE stamped bolts) was just a custom machine bolt, the base bolt being the same one used by Mpower, (and another parts shop whose name I forget!) as discussed earlier in this thread.

TX Have you still got those original Mpower bolts?

[patroklai]

Subbed. Lol

[m3s65b4.x]

Sry for old thread bump. Wanted to confirm in summer-fall 2022 they sell batch 35 bolts ARP 2000.
Yes and you can buy Chevy bolts 234-6301 at a bargain and get them shortened in local shop. Then you have your own version beside vac, m power and early be bolts.

[Assimilator1]

Thanks for the photo , although it would have been better if you'd photo'd them from the side.
And whose 'they'? Would be useful to know who you mean

[m3s65b4.x]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Thanks for the photo , although it would have been better if you'd photo'd them from the side.
And whose 'they'? Would be useful to know who you mean

Source from M Power Motorsport.
I measured:
ARP2000 UHL 45mm, grip 6.2mm and thread length 18mm
OEM UHL 44mm, grip 4.4mm, thread 17mm

[Assimilator1]

Nice one, thank you very much, and excellent quality photos!

[egebhardt]

Thanks guys. I just ordered some BE ARP2000 bolts from ECStuning (Turner). I can't wait to see what I get!

Note: ECS bought Turner in 2015. If you login to either, they both have the same content.