Track forum general chit chat.

[Jack14]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Alcon is a pretty rare kit for the E9x M3. Which one do you have?

Its a K type caliper. Wasn't intended for our cars but had some custom lines made. The guy who sold it to me had the brackets made. Set up worked well for me for a long time.

IMG_0150 by Jack Orlan, on Flickr

[Jack14]

Originally Posted by Shmelgy

What kind of slicks? For reference, I have 305 Pirelli DH mounted on 18x10s and the fit fine

Yeah the Pirellis run crazy small. My 285 DHs are narrower than the 275 Hoosiers I ran prior. 315 R7 is what im looking to run. Likely going with a custom set of wheels.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by Jack14

Its a K type caliper. Wasn't intended for our cars but had some custom lines made. The guy who sold it to me had the brackets made. Set up worked well for me for a long time.

IMG_0150 by Jack Orlan, on Flickr

Looks nice. Let me know if you put it up for sale, I may be interested depending cost and availability of replacement parts.

[b4hand]

Is a carbon Fiber trunk lid worth it?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by romero1990

Jack14

Thank you, that's some really good info.

120K is definitely the most concerning part of the car. I was also debating if I should get something lower in millage, like 135i or 235/240. I bought my M3 with intention to keep it as long as I can and will fix it up as much as possible. What I will probably do is get it started with M3 and move forward as it goes.

Both gaskets are still holding ok/not seeing any leak yet. They probably will as the engine stress goes up. TA are both addressed which should be fine.

On braking system side, my brake rotors are due to be replaced, there are lips since I got the car. Was thinking about replacing them altogether once pads are worn. I definitely should do it before track day with track pads. BBK will probably come much later unless some discounts happen. The best price I see so far is ~4.5K for ST60+40 set, or Slon's 380mm disk retrofit sets for around 4K. It seems ST's 380mm disks are way more expensive than F8x 380mm. From cost effectiveness, F8x retrofit is almost win.

Suspension side. Cost of getting V3 rebuilt+ set of camber plate totals about 1.2K. It cost a lot less than KW clubsport. It looks like R&T + camber plate will run about the same as clubsport.

Bartledoo
Very true. I will most likely do the brakes first for the safety and see how the car holds up as it goes. The main concern is definitely the high millage my M3 has now.


All in all, the most important part is me really register for a few sessions and get a feeling of the tracks.

stay away from slonik and the retrofits. they are mediocre at best. get some new disks and some decent track pads, then flush in fresh high temperature fluid.
i dig ap racing offerings, but lots of people enjoy the stoptech st60/40 combo. brembo is cool and all, but huge calipers on the 380mm sets limit your wheel sizes and they are expensive for what you get. the guys that run performance friction really enjoy them as well.

[romero1990]

roastbeef

Good to know. In that case I should go with upgrading OE to new rotor and track pads and fluid first.

With all thing being similar, I wonder how do different BBK kits/brands compares. Say why some are more expensive than the other ones. Is better performance (longer high temperature endurance) or?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by romero1990

roastbeef

Good to know. In that case I should go with upgrading OE to new rotor and track pads and fluid first.

With all thing being similar, I wonder how do different BBK kits/brands compares. Say why some are more expensive than the other ones. Is better performance (longer high temperature endurance) or?

the differences between kits in the bbk market can be huge. some are race focused, and some are designed to fill up a 19" wheel for cars and coffee.

a couple of the more race focused offerings are AP racing and performance friction. i don't have any experience with performance friction, but they are used on porsche cup cars (says a lot). one of the features i like is their piston technology that every so slightly pulls the pads off of the rotors when you're not on the brakes. its patented, so it is proprietary and not found on other kits. keeps the brakes cooler.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/B...saAlSuEALw_wcB

https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...668372mm-e92m3

some of the cool features on ap kits is that they are some of the lightest kits out there at a reasonable cost. high rotor vane count (great heat dissipation), anti-knockback springs on the pistons, and ventilated pistons. they also have piston seals which arguably last longer than boots.

brembo offers a little bit of everything, but they can be quite expensive for some of the race focused kits.

stoptech 60 and 40 kits are popular because of price and part availability. not as many "race" features, but they work for a lot of people and people are happy with them.

m4 retro kits look cool and all, but they are just oem brakes. woop. people turn those things brown all the time.

the original slonik offering is an audi R8 rear caliper somewhat refinished (maybe) and a custom caliper bracket. these use oem rotors. oem rotors are most of the problem with oem brakes. the pads on these often only sweep 60% of the rotor face. garbage. and good luck getting any kind of support from that dude that only signs in to read hate mail and not do jack shit after he took people's money.

forget about the boutique brands. you'll have a hard time sourcing pads/parts.

i did brakes early on after i got into tracking. i bought a set of track wheels/tires for my second track day and absolutely fried my front brakes. in my opinion, brakes are high on the track mod list even for beginners. you remove a variable from the car and it allows you to focus on driving technique rather than managing brakes.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by romero1990

roastbeef

Good to know. In that case I should go with upgrading OE to new rotor and track pads and fluid first.

With all thing being similar, I wonder how do different BBK kits/brands compares. Say why some are more expensive than the other ones. Is better performance (longer high temperature endurance) or?

When I first got on the track about a year ago someone here recommended the PFC Direct Drive V3 rotors and a direct replacement to the OEM. Might take a look at them as well if you do not want to get into BBK money yet. I ran them with PFC 11 & they performed very well and had a lot of room to grow before I was ready to move to a BBK.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

I always assumed carbon-ceramic rotors would perform better in terms of heat capacity / cooling + weight savings, just cost more. Thus, the decision to move to steel rotors is a more cost-effective solution. Is that not true?

The carbon ceramic rotors are fabulous for track duty but make no difference for road use.

Not only they are fabulous performance wise, I am still waiting to see ehat the real cost delta from other BBK kits.

Put a side a costly mistake I made on one of the rotors. I finished a third season on my setup with about 75 track days. Mostly on 18 turns track with heavy breaking between the turns.

most of my track days are 7 sessions x 20min = 140 minutes.

Or about 10,500 minutes of track time with heavy usage. Typically once a lap going from 130mph to 45-50 and the rest from 80-90 down to 50-60.

I brake as late as possible.

So far I am on my 3 original disks (one replaced after 2 seasons)

each year I consume one brake pads on the front. So far I consumed 2 brake pads on the rear.

I would love to know if anyone here can provide consumption rates of brake disks and pads with the equivalent track usage.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by b4hand

Is a carbon Fiber trunk lid worth it?

I guess if you're trying to remove every last pound.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

I always assumed carbon-ceramic rotors would perform better in terms of heat capacity / cooling + weight savings, just cost more. Thus, the decision to move to steel rotors is a more cost-effective solution. Is that not true?

They can be a lot better, the problem is that people don't bother to do any research on how to treat the rotors. It's not like iron rotors where you just run them until they crack or get too thin.

CCBs can also be "rebuilt" for about $900/pair.

I think people just prefer iron because they'll get more choice in pads. They're also paranoid about chipping the rotor which can happen when you take wheels on and off a lot.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by b4hand

Is a carbon Fiber trunk lid worth it?

For weight loss—-yes.

If you plan on installing a 67” wing on the trunk——no.

If you plan on chassis-mounting a wing—-yes, but you may have to cut it depending on how the wing is installed.

[Bartledoo]

Slightly off topic, but I've been riding around in my dad's newish Jeep Wrangler this week and wondering why it's okay to have a factory roll cage exposed to all of the occupants' heads (worst in the rear seat with what seems like guaranteed head impact), when it is well-known death to put a full cage in a street driven car.

[romero1990]

roastbeef

Thank you for the insights. Was it AP racing or PFC that pulls the pad back? It does sound quite interesting. These are the 2 I will probably go with down the road.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by romero1990

roastbeef

Thank you for the insights. Was it AP racing or PFC that pulls the pad back? It does sound quite interesting. These are the 2 I will probably go with down the road.

Pfc has the frictionless tech.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Slightly off topic, but I've been riding around in my dad's newish Jeep Wrangler this week and wondering why it's okay to have a factory roll cage exposed to all of the occupants' heads (worst in the rear seat with what seems like guaranteed head impact), when it is well-known death to put a full cage in a street driven car.

Jeep owners don't have much to get damaged up there anyway, so I'd say don't worry about it.

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by dparm

Consider paying for a private instructor for a day. Way more useful than having someone ride shotgun for 20 minutes.

dparm What does that typically cost?

[rhyary]

Two fitment questions
1. Has anyone tried 275/35/19 on the rear?
2. While not ideal, can you mount 275/35/19 on 10.5" wheel?

Slicer?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Two fitment questions
1. Has anyone tried 275/35/19 on the rear?
2. While not ideal, can you mount 275/35/19 on 10.5" wheel?

Slicer?

For sure you can fit a 275/35 tire on a 10.5 wheel. It fits better there than on a 10 wheel

[Datka]

Originally Posted by b4hand

Is a carbon Fiber trunk lid worth it?

Yes. Stock lid is about 25 pounds I think. I have a fiberglass trunk lid instead of carbon fiber for two reasons: its significantly cheaper and you can mount rear wing on it for down force.
Carbon fiber and fiberglass are both very strong, but Carbon fiber is more rigid. Carbon fiber is about 3 times stiffer than steel and aluminum for a given weight. ... Fiberglass is better suited to extreme flex patterns, while carbon fiber has a relatively small flex window.
I reinforced my APR wings mounting points with thin light aluminum plates from inside the trunk(cant see them). Trunk lid was painted titanium silver as my car.
Looks great, saves 50% of the stock trunk lid weight and this lid has a nice spoiler edge that creates additional aerodynamic down force.
Tested many times at well over 160 mph, so far no problems.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Datka

Yes. Stock lid is about 25 pounds I think. I have a fiberglass trunk lid instead of carbon fiber for two reasons: its significantly cheaper and you can mount rear wing on it for down force.
Carbon fiber and fiberglass are both very strong, but Carbon fiber is more rigid. Carbon fiber is about 3 times stiffer than steel and aluminum for a given weight. ... Fiberglass is better suited to extreme flex patterns, while carbon fiber has a relatively small flex window.
I reinforced my APR wings mounting points with thin light aluminum plates from inside the trunk(cant see them). Trunk lid was painted titanium silver as my car.
Looks great, saves 50% of the stock trunk lid weight and this lid has a nice spoiler edge that creates additional aerodynamic down force.
Tested many times at well over 160 mph, so far no problems.

What brand of trunk do you have?

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

For sure you can fit a 275/35 tire on a 10.5 wheel. It fits better there than on a 10 wheel

Great thanks

My next radical idea is to run 19" square @ 275/30/19 front and 275/35/19 rear.

After a long debate with myself over the holiday, I decided that idea of running two cambers sets; one for 235/35 and one for 265/35-275/30 is just not practical for my situation.

So by focusing on the 265 or 275 fronts, I will move my camber from -3.0 (shown to eat up my outside on 265 - 275) toward the -3.5 in some increments. I also not sure what the max can be.

The rear 275/35 idea is out of pure curiosity. No other real reason.

My budget is not to exceed $1000 per 4 until I can get he wear pattern, and what lap times I can get on second choice tires.

Here are the options for under $1000:

275/30/19 - 275/35/19
Kumo Ecsta PS91
GeneralG-MAX RS
SUMITOMO TIRES HTR - Z5
FirestoneFIREHAWK INDY 500

265/35/19 275/35/19
Most if the above +
Yoko ADVAN APEX V601

265/35/19 - 295/30/19
Most of the above
Bridgestone POTENZA S007A - this one is intriguing below 1000 per 4

275/30/19 295/30/19
Most of the above