Tire wear at the track

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Why not switch wheels (and brakes) so you can have access to all of the track focused 18 inch tire options?

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Why not buy a Porsche? I surely hit 1:36. No?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by rhyary

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Why not buy a Porsche? I surely hit 1:36. No?

I don't think the comment was meant to be disparaging.

At a certain point, you are throwing good money at bad. Your current tire/wheel sizes limit you and aren't providing the performance you seem to want. Maybe 18" wheels aren't something you do now, but consider it for next season. The economics will work in your favor if you plan to do a lot of HPDEs and/or keep the car for a while.

I went through something very similar last year. After cracking each wheel on separate occasions (fatigue/stress from the track), and replacing the tires to the tune of $2k multiple times in one season, I decided that I had had enough and just went out to get a track setup. Now I can run a cheaper, stickier, and more durable tire AND I'm not constantly nervous about a wheel giving out mid-corner.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dparm

I don't think the comment was meant to be disparaging.

At a certain point, you are throwing good money at bad. Your current tire/wheel sizes limit you and aren't providing the performance you seem to want. Maybe 18" wheels aren't something you do now, but consider it for next season. The economics will work in your favor if you plan to do a lot of HPDEs and/or keep the car for a while.

I went through something very similar last year. After cracking each wheel on separate occasions (fatigue/stress from the track), and replacing the tires to the tune of $2k multiple times in one season, I decided that I had had enough and just went out to get a track setup. Now I can run a cheaper, stickier, and more durable tire AND I'm not constantly nervous about a wheel giving out mid-corner.

I think no matter what equipment I chose, it will have limitation. The point if HPDE, IMHO, is to maximize and manage the traction at a given day, at given track and given equipment.

I don't see why I continually been advised to change my equipment. Why not strip the car like Dogbone did? why not get a Corvette like, I think, you did? why not run E46 M3? etc etc.

I am on 19" wheels and I am always looking for the abandon knowledge of this board as it relates to the equipment I chose.

Once we starts with economic discussion, that has many many tangents I don't think is usable on an Internet community. Believe me, I can afford this activity because I am frugal and watch my expenses very carefully.

Having said that, I get so much info here on my E92 M3 that I sincerely appreciates all the feedback.

Anyway, today looks like a dry track day and being on my 3rd day on the front R888R 265/30/19 I can monitor wear to see if the alignment helped with the inside wear. Will upload a picture when I am do.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I think no matter what equipment I chose, it will have limitation. The point if HPDE, IMHO, is to maximize and manage the traction at a given day, at given track and given equipment.

I don't see why I continually been advised to change my equipment. Why not strip the car like Dogbone did? why not get a Corvette like, I think, you did? why not run E46 M3? etc etc.

I am on 19" wheels and I am always looking for the abandon knowledge of this board as it relates to the equipment I chose.

Once we starts with economic discussion, that has many many tangents I don't think is usable on an Internet community. Believe me, I can afford this activity because I am frugal and watch my expenses very carefully...

You are the one who brought economics into the discussion if you read your own posts. You wanted to buy cheap street tires for the track, which you were informed will not actually be cheap in the long run and will perform worse (i.e. minimizing grip on track rather than maximizing it as you seek to do).

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

You are the one who brought economics into the discussion if you read your own posts. You wanted to buy cheap street tires for the track, which you were informed will not actually be cheap in the long run and will perform worse (i.e. minimizing grip on track rather than maximizing it as you seek to do).

17s are the most economical choice for a tire that is wider than a 255 and around 25" in total diameter. The hard part is finding 17x10 wheels. Apex sells a 17x10 that's light but they're not always in stock.

Just can't use 380mm BBKs.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

You are the one who brought economics into the discussion if you read your own posts. You wanted to buy cheap street tires for the track, which you were informed will not actually be cheap in the long run and will perform worse (i.e. minimizing grip on track rather than maximizing it as you seek to do).

I followed that advise

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

You are the one who brought economics into the discussion if you read your own posts. You wanted to buy cheap street tires for the track, which you were informed will not actually be cheap in the long run and will perform worse (i.e. minimizing grip on track rather than maximizing it as you seek to do).

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I followed that advise

[rhyary]

Very happy with the results of my alignment:
I am going to stick to it as a base line and see what it does to my RR slicks.

Aligment specs:
-3.0 front
-2.0 rear
0 Tow.

Tire wear:
Front, R888R - a bit more on the inside but this includes two days in the rain and one day dry

Rear, RR - about 5 track days. The cord is on the inside, but the outside is about spent as well

[rhyary]

Inside:
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[rhyary]

Outside:

[dparm]

I'd flip them to get more even wear. Tread direction won't make much difference in the dry.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dparm

I'd flip them to get more even wear. Tread direction won't make much difference in the dry.

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Meh, I had these two R888R from last year and i just wanted to get rid of them. I am done with experimenting with 265/30/19.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by dparm

I don't think the comment was meant to be disparaging.

At a certain point, you are throwing good money at bad. Your current tire/wheel sizes limit you and aren't providing the performance you seem to want. Maybe 18" wheels aren't something you do now, but consider it for next season. The economics will work in your favor if you plan to do a lot of HPDEs and/or keep the car for a while.

Pretty much this and not at all meant to be disparaging. I don't recall all the details from previous threads, but it seems your brakes are limiting you to certain tire sizes where you don't have many options. What you're left with is using street tires under scenarios where you're the first person to experience them.

Are you going to find someone that runs Kumo PS91s on a car with a similar setup to yours? I doubt it. Are you going to find someone that runs 18" NT01s or Pirelli slicks in a similar car (or what your car will turn into in the next year or two)? Yes and there are plenty of people around here you can ask. Put the stock brakes back on your car, get similar tires to what everyone else is using, and you're going to have much more useful feedback from the community if you have questions.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Pretty much this and not at all meant to be disparaging. I don't recall all the details from previous threads, but it seems your brakes are limiting you to certain tire sizes where you don't have many options. What you're left with is using street tires under scenarios where you're the first person to experience them.

Are you going to find someone that runs Kumo PS91s on a car with a similar setup to yours? I doubt it. Are you going to find someone that runs 18" NT01s or Pirelli slicks in a similar car (or what your car will turn into in the next year or two)? Yes and there are plenty of people around here you can ask. Put the stock brakes back on your car, get similar tires to what everyone else is using, and you're going to have much more useful feedback from the community if you have questions.

Thank you

[rymerc]

Originally Posted by dparm

The PS91 is a much newer tire. It's not a high-end performance tire and hence is cheaper -- I think it's a PSS knock-off, honestly. I'm sure some others can chime in with how it holds up at the track.

The ps91 is a fine alternative to the MPSS if you want to save some money. I've done a few hpdes on my set, and they held up fine for a 20 minute session but if overdriven during a 25-30 minute session I could get them greasy and they will chunk a bit. I'm at 5k street miles and 3 track days and I'll get another HPDE maybe some autox and some street miles before they're dead. They have lost a noticeable bit of performance being 3 years old, at least 2 seconds at mid-ohio compared to when they were fresh.

For the price, I think the indy500 is a faster more durable tire. I got my ps91s on sale with a rebate and they were around $700ish shipped.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by rymerc

The ps91 is a fine alternative to the MPSS if you want to save some money. I've done a few hpdes on my set, and they held up fine for a 20 minute session but if overdriven during a 25-30 minute session I could get them greasy and they will chunk a bit. I'm at 5k street miles and 3 track days and I'll get another HPDE maybe some autox and some street miles before they're dead. They have lost a noticeable bit of performance being 3 years old, at least 2 seconds at mid-ohio compared to when they were fresh.

For the price, I think the indy500 is a faster more durable tire. I got my ps91s on sale with a rebate and they were around $700ish shipped.

I can't find any better price/performance for a 275/30/19 than this for 20 min sessions.
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[bigjae1976]

There's your problem...those tires are not designed to take extended periods of high loads which generate a lot of heat.

It sucks but you need a 140 or a cheater 200 treadwear tire if you want to get longer life.

I would argue your expectations are high if you're buying tires produced in 2015.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

There's your problem...those tires are not designed to take extended periods of high loads which generate a lot of heat.

It sucks but you need a 140 or a cheater 200 treadwear tire if you want to get longer life.

I would argue your expectations are high if you're buying tires produced in 2015.

First, this is only one of my problems. I have many.

My expectations from the PS91 is to be my rain tires. In the wet and rain I don't see generating enough heat to worry about it. I am also not concerns with best lap times but manage traction in slippery condition. This can be done with $143 tires just as good as $300 tire. I don't care about road miles.

In the dry I am settled on the RR slick which is a small tire for me. I am planning on using Hoosier 265/35/19 but that requires carefully calculating clearance and I am not ready to tackle that project yet.

[rhyary]

Tire wear report.
Assuming that my alignment has not changed.
So -3.0 front, 2.0 rear and 0 Toe
The front 235/35/19 wear is even.
About half way I rotated the fronts. But not the rears.
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Triangles on both sides still visible
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[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Yea, this is weird, but I don't know what Toyo RR like for pressure. I run NT01 at 25 cold, 35 hot and I get very even wear. End up cording the rear tires first, on the inside.

Does anyone have more feedback on hot pressures for Toyo RR?

I'm running them for the first time on Monday. 3750 pounds with old man in the left seat. With no further info, I'll aim for 33-34 hot.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Tire wear report.
Assuming that my alignment has not changed.
So -3.0 front, 2.0 rear and 0 Toe
The front 235/35/19 wear is even.
About half way I rotated the fronts. But not the rears.
.
Triangles on both sides still visible
.

Are you using a tire pyrometer when you come off the track?

[redpriest]

Kumho PS91 are fine as an emergency track tire, and I've used them many times when my track tires corded unexpectedly - but ... they will wear out fast when used for this purpose. I would say you can probably get 5-6 sessions before they start to give out. They are not economical for long track runs.

18" tires are going to give you far more options and frankly, are far more economical than moving platforms are gonna be.