Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4: An ongoing review

mose121 · 03-15-2013, 08:17 AM

Wanted to add my $0.02, I'm running this plus size on 245/40/18 on 18x8 M270 wheels. When driving aggressively if you hit a bump and the front suspension gets compressed the front tires rub the fender liners. Hopefully as the tread wears down a bit this won't be an issue but not fun when you're going 75-80mph and it feels like someone just stabbed hard at the brake pedal for an instant. It really unsettles the car. Just a heads up, maybe this isn't an issue with the e90 4 door or perhaps no one is pushing the car as hard as I am on these tires.

Transfer · 03-16-2013, 12:38 AM

What tire size and any suspension mods? I am very aggressive on mine and no rubbing.

I took mine off for the season as we're now constantly in the 50s F and wow, tire wear is minimal for the 5 months I had them on. I'm quite pleased.

Transfer · 10-19-2013, 03:24 AM

Bump for a new season and people trying to decide what to order. The weather is still good here so I'm waiting until November to swap to my winters but this year I'm upping my spacers. I'll take pics of tread wear and new spacer setup.

gary88 · 10-26-2013, 01:53 PM

I've had LM-60s for the past two winters. I just sold them recently and will be picking up PA4s in 225 for my 335. LM-60s are absolutely amazing in the snow, but dry performance leaves a little to be desired. Turn in is very soft and the tires definitely roar a little. Looking forward to the Michelins, glad to hear the turn in is similar to Super Sports as those are what I run in the summer.

Goat Rodeo · 10-27-2013, 04:33 PM

Just put a set of PA4s on my 335ix (225/40/18 all around). They are asymmetric in this size which is nice.

They really do feel like summers. None of the noise and poor turn-in that I had on previous winter tires.

Dry braking feels better and without noise compared to the Conti DWSes I put on my M3 lolvert. The DWSes squeal like a pig under even moderate braking which can actually be a bit embarrassing. The reviews over on M3post where the guy claims the DWSes are nearly as good as his summers are really misleading.

GregW / Oregon · 10-27-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Rodeo

Just put a set of PA4s on my 335ix (225/40/18 all around). They are asymmetric in this size which is nice.

I think you mean symmetrical.

Goat Rodeo · 10-27-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

I think you mean symmetrical.

No, from TireRack:

"Tires with asymmetric tread patterns allow using multiple tire rotation patterns."

Transfer · 10-28-2013, 12:15 AM

They're asymmetric and can be rotated left to right.

I just put mine back on for the season today as temps are now in the 40s and I was definitely noticing traction loss with my PSS the last few days. Going back to the PA4s, in the dry they do squirm a little given the added tread, and lateral grip is less, but so is my contact patch. I'm glad to have these tires for the winter.

This year my 18x8 ET20 wheels have 15mm spacers rear and 12mm spacers front. On my stock ZCP suspension, the fronts surprisingly rub the liner a small amount on turns. Oh well, it looks pretty good so I'm a stick with it.

markjord · 10-31-2013, 02:54 PM

I need to get some tyres now as my Michelins have had their day. I want to stick with my oem 19's and just swap the tyres in late November and March here in the UK. My plan is to get the PA4's in the standard 245 and 265 widths. I also use spacers at the moment (18/15). I don't know of anyone else who has gone for this approach so I'll report back. Any opinions welcome.

Transfer · 10-31-2013, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markjord

I need to get some tyres now as my Michelins have had their day. I want to stick with my oem 19's and just swap the tyres in late November and March here in the UK. My plan is to get the PA4's in the standard 245 and 265 widths. I also use spacers at the moment (18/15). I don't know of anyone else who has gone for this approach so I'll report back. Any opinions welcome.

I actually regret going 245 square so I think you're on the right track. I wish I had gone with stock sizes as I don't see any deep snow and the rear end slips a lot easier with less rubber.

markjord · 10-31-2013, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfer

I actually regret going 245 square so I think you're on the right track. I wish I had gone with stock sizes as I don't see any deep snow and the rear end slips a lot easier with less rubber.

Thanks. Will let you know how I get on. Can't bear the thought of making my car look worse so no 18's for me.

Goat Rodeo · 11-10-2013, 10:11 AM

An update now that I have 2500 miles on them:

Absolutely incredible tire. Still have not been able to test actual snow performance due to warm spell after putting them on, but dry performance exceeds all expectations. Car has an obscene amount of grip and turn-in is sharper than the PS2s they replaced. Whatever gives the PSS such a crisp turn-in is present on this tire as well.

They are significantly better in the dry and wet than the all seasons I run on my M3s, namely the Pilot Sport A/S Plus and the Conti DWSes. The Pilot Sport A/S Pluses are a bit scary in the wet due to lack of traction, and the DWSes have horribly languid turn-in and steering response, as well as howling during moderate cornering and braking like an economy tire.

If they do well in the snow this is truly a GOAT tire and I would much rather run these than all-seasons. Can't wait to see how well they do in snow and what the wear is like. I drive 700 miles a week so I will find out quickly.

MTROIS · 11-10-2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markjord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfer

I actually regret going 245 square so I think you're on the right track. I wish I had gone with stock sizes as I don't see any deep snow and the rear end slips a lot easier with less rubber.

Thanks. Will let you know how I get on. Can't bear the thought of making my car look worse so no 18's for me.

You would definitely dislike the looks of my square 235's mounted on the A7 Sport Edition cheap wheels!
Thankfully, I have the black wheels.... Which makes up a tiny bit for the overall ugliness.

On the other hand, I will also vouch for the PA4s: amazing winter tire, even in 1-2" deep snow (I drive to the Catskills in the winter...).

TheDeliverator · 11-10-2013, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markjord

I need to get some tyres now as my Michelins have had their day. I want to stick with my oem 19's and just swap the tyres in late November and March here in the UK. My plan is to get the PA4's in the standard 245 and 265 widths. I also use spacers at the moment (18/15). I don't know of anyone else who has gone for this approach so I'll report back. Any opinions welcome.

They don't have those sizes (at least here in the US).

Bummed

benha · 11-10-2013, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDeliverator

They don't have those sizes (at least here in the US).

Bummed

Ya this is what ticks me off. I don't want to run 18's either, so I'm getting a second set of 19's to put winter rubber on. Really would like the PA4's since I live in Portland and need something that does great in dry/wet but can handle the occasional 2" of snow. I have to be able to show up to work across town in my daily driver, but I refuse to run dedicated winters and ruin the fun of having a new M3 for months out of the year.
So far, on ZCP rim sizes (I'll get Avant Garde's M359 Blacks) I see the following options:
265/35/19 rear / 255/35/19 front
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60
Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serie II
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3
275/35/19 rear / 255/35/19 front
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60
Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position
Continental ExtremeContact DWS
Goodyear Eagle F1
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3

After combing reviews extensively, LM-60's would be great on snow days, but I'll wish I had the A/S 3's most of the rainy 40 degree days. We also miss out on Dunlop 3D and 4D's at this wheel size. Anyone who can help us set up a ZCP 19" winter tire who lives in the Pacific Northwest and has experience with this rubber?

Transfer · 11-23-2013, 11:53 AM

Just found this Tire Rack test: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=181
Michelin PA4 won.

STALKER · 11-23-2013, 06:02 PM

I use the N Spec version of these on my 991 C4S and so far they are pretty good. Best handling snow tire I have used, but I need to remind myself its a snow tire sometimes when entering into a bend, LOL.

dparm · 11-23-2013, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfer

Just found this Tire Rack test: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=181
Michelin PA4 won.

Too bad Tire Rack doesn't stock Nokian. I have a feeling the Hakka R2 would handily win.

BRASSCRAF · 10-27-2014, 10:40 AM

Any updated thoughts? About to buy a set of square winters for the e90 and these seem to be the best bet...

drink schlitz · 11-12-2014, 01:44 PM

Has anyone ran these in 245/40/18 on the OEM 18s? I ask since the OEM 18s are staggered widths, 8.5" in the front and 9.5" in the rear. So I'm wondering how well a square 245/40/18 setup would work. Thanks

mgiglio2 · 11-17-2014, 05:40 PM

So this may look RIDICULOUS as a winter setup but these wheels are only $549. I know they're replicas but as a winter wheel, do you even care?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-LM-Wheels...79905739&rt=nc

pbonsalb · 11-18-2014, 06:39 AM

I would buy a production wheel, either stock or well known aftermarket. Used is fine. What do you do when one of your cheap chinese knockoff wheels bends and they are no longer available? I agree it is unnecessary to spend thousands on wheels. Used sets of 18 inch E90 wheels can be had for $500 and I have seen used M3 wheels for $600 a set. Check your local craigslist. Spin them on your car or at a tire shop before handing over your cash in case one is bent.

03-15-2013, 08:17 AM	#45
mose121 Humanist 272 Rep 398 Posts Drives: F80 M3 ZCP/F31 330i M Sport Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (0)	Wanted to add my $0.02, I'm running this plus size on 245/40/18 on 18x8 M270 wheels. When driving aggressively if you hit a bump and the front suspension gets compressed the front tires rub the fender liners. Hopefully as the tread wears down a bit this won't be an issue but not fun when you're going 75-80mph and it feels like someone just stabbed hard at the brake pedal for an instant. It really unsettles the car. Just a heads up, maybe this isn't an issue with the e90 4 door or perhaps no one is pushing the car as hard as I am on these tires. Last edited by mose121; 12-27-2015 at 01:15 AM..
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03-16-2013, 12:38 AM	#46
Transfer Major General 5250 Rep 5,874 Posts Drives: Bronco Wildtrak, Tesla MYP Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Issaquah, WA iTrader: (1)	What tire size and any suspension mods? I am very aggressive on mine and no rubbing. I took mine off for the season as we're now constantly in the 50s F and wow, tire wear is minimal for the 5 months I had them on. I'm quite pleased.
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10-19-2013, 03:24 AM	#47
Transfer Major General 5250 Rep 5,874 Posts Drives: Bronco Wildtrak, Tesla MYP Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Issaquah, WA iTrader: (1)	Bump for a new season and people trying to decide what to order. The weather is still good here so I'm waiting until November to swap to my winters but this year I'm upping my spacers. I'll take pics of tread wear and new spacer setup.
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10-26-2013, 01:53 PM	#48
gary88 Ikea enthusiast 334 Rep 8,140 Posts Drives: '07 E92 335i Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (3) Garage List 2007 E92 335i [7.96]	I've had LM-60s for the past two winters. I just sold them recently and will be picking up PA4s in 225 for my 335. LM-60s are absolutely amazing in the snow, but dry performance leaves a little to be desired. Turn in is very soft and the tires definitely roar a little. Looking forward to the Michelins, glad to hear the turn in is similar to Super Sports as those are what I run in the summer. __________________ garyhebdingjr.com \| flickr \| Instagram
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10-27-2013, 04:33 PM	#49
Goat Rodeo Second Lieutenant 12 Rep 253 Posts Drives: '13 M3, '06 M3, '02 M3 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	Just put a set of PA4s on my 335ix (225/40/18 all around). They are asymmetric in this size which is nice. They really do feel like summers. None of the noise and poor turn-in that I had on previous winter tires. Dry braking feels better and without noise compared to the Conti DWSes I put on my M3 lolvert. The DWSes squeal like a pig under even moderate braking which can actually be a bit embarrassing. The reviews over on M3post where the guy claims the DWSes are nearly as good as his summers are really misleading. __________________ ^ --> FS: 2011.75 M3 Alpine White, Speed Cloth, 6MT, CF Roof
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10-28-2013, 12:15 AM	#52
Transfer Major General 5250 Rep 5,874 Posts Drives: Bronco Wildtrak, Tesla MYP Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Issaquah, WA iTrader: (1)	They're asymmetric and can be rotated left to right. I just put mine back on for the season today as temps are now in the 40s and I was definitely noticing traction loss with my PSS the last few days. Going back to the PA4s, in the dry they do squirm a little given the added tread, and lateral grip is less, but so is my contact patch. I'm glad to have these tires for the winter. This year my 18x8 ET20 wheels have 15mm spacers rear and 12mm spacers front. On my stock ZCP suspension, the fronts surprisingly rub the liner a small amount on turns. Oh well, it looks pretty good so I'm a stick with it.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-31-2013, 02:54 PM	#53
markjord Second Lieutenant 34 Rep 288 Posts Drives: M3 E92 2007 Jerez Black Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wellingborough iTrader: (0)	I need to get some tyres now as my Michelins have had their day. I want to stick with my oem 19's and just swap the tyres in late November and March here in the UK. My plan is to get the PA4's in the standard 245 and 265 widths. I also use spacers at the moment (18/15). I don't know of anyone else who has gone for this approach so I'll report back. Any opinions welcome.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-10-2013, 10:11 AM	#56
Goat Rodeo Second Lieutenant 12 Rep 253 Posts Drives: '13 M3, '06 M3, '02 M3 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	An update now that I have 2500 miles on them: Absolutely incredible tire. Still have not been able to test actual snow performance due to warm spell after putting them on, but dry performance exceeds all expectations. Car has an obscene amount of grip and turn-in is sharper than the PS2s they replaced. Whatever gives the PSS such a crisp turn-in is present on this tire as well. They are significantly better in the dry and wet than the all seasons I run on my M3s, namely the Pilot Sport A/S Plus and the Conti DWSes. The Pilot Sport A/S Pluses are a bit scary in the wet due to lack of traction, and the DWSes have horribly languid turn-in and steering response, as well as howling during moderate cornering and braking like an economy tire. If they do well in the snow this is truly a GOAT tire and I would much rather run these than all-seasons. Can't wait to see how well they do in snow and what the wear is like. I drive 700 miles a week so I will find out quickly. __________________ ^ --> FS: 2011.75 M3 Alpine White, Speed Cloth, 6MT, CF Roof
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-23-2013, 11:53 AM	#60
Transfer Major General 5250 Rep 5,874 Posts Drives: Bronco Wildtrak, Tesla MYP Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Issaquah, WA iTrader: (1)	Just found this Tire Rack test: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=181 Michelin PA4 won.
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11-23-2013, 06:02 PM	#61
STALKER Brigadier General 169 Rep 3,831 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3, Golf R Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Toronto, ON iTrader: (5)	I use the N Spec version of these on my 991 C4S and so far they are pretty good. Best handling snow tire I have used, but I need to remind myself its a snow tire sometimes when entering into a bend, LOL. __________________
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10-27-2014, 10:40 AM	#63
BRASSCRAF New Member 4 Rep 23 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3 ZCP DCT Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	Any updated thoughts? About to buy a set of square winters for the e90 and these seem to be the best bet...
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11-12-2014, 01:44 PM	#64
drink schlitz New Member 2 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 09 M3 Sedan Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Has anyone ran these in 245/40/18 on the OEM 18s? I ask since the OEM 18s are staggered widths, 8.5" in the front and 9.5" in the rear. So I'm wondering how well a square 245/40/18 setup would work. Thanks
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11-17-2014, 05:40 PM	#65
mgiglio2 Private First Class 9 Rep 172 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Atlantic Highlands, NJ iTrader: (4)	So this may look RIDICULOUS as a winter setup but these wheels are only $549. I know they're replicas but as a winter wheel, do you even care? http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-LM-Wheels...79905739&rt=nc __________________
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11-18-2014, 06:39 AM	#66
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 5216 Rep 10,601 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	I would buy a production wheel, either stock or well known aftermarket. Used is fine. What do you do when one of your cheap chinese knockoff wheels bends and they are no longer available? I agree it is unnecessary to spend thousands on wheels. Used sets of 18 inch E90 wheels can be had for $500 and I have seen used M3 wheels for $600 a set. Check your local craigslist. Spin them on your car or at a tire shop before handing over your cash in case one is bent.
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