Gintani Twin Turbo E9X M3 Kit Dyno Graphs and Video

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

big power!

[lonestar22]

thought id revisit this thread to see what everyone was saying about my comment and im quite surprised. the last thing i was trying to do was compare the M3 to the 335i. What i was comparing was the fact that there are 1000+ hp CTS-V's out there (around the same price used) that arent running $20k turbo kits. thats all i was saying. no need to get bent out of shape. go look around outside of the BMW world and see that cars are making ALOT more power these days than they were 4 years ago.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by okusa

Umm, no. Read the prior post. There is no mention of tq being problematic on the tranny.

The DCT really shines with a Centri Supercharger setup because when getting on it, the gearing keeps the RPMs nice and high where a Centri Blower is going to make peak boost, thus peak power. This is not necessarily the case with a turbo charger setup, where you can run a varying boost curve depending on your engine setup.

Now this probably won't be an issue on a stock motor setup, whether you go S/C or TT, but honestly the TT-kit isn't really going to show it's true potential until you do a built motor and start pushing 10+ psi. Now the problem/short coming the DCT may have with a high boost TT setup is that there's no legitimate DCT upgrade, so don't be surprised if clutch packs start getting fried or DCT/TQ-triggered limp codes become an issue. Also, a 6MT will be "in boost" longer because of the gearing (not comparing aftermarket gearing swaps).

Originally Posted by e92stance

Wait did somebody say 18-20k for this kit? 18-20k for a twin turbo setup on a soon to be outdated platform? I mean I understand research and projects cost money but that's crazy. What Is included in the kit and where is this number coming from??? It would be awesome to see a TT v8 though damn!!

$20k has been the rumor mill numbers, and if that's actually what it turns out to be that's a solid deal when 650 BHP supercharger kits are $13-15k, and you're getting a lot more piping, two turbos/BOVs/WGs/etc. No one should be surprised that a turbo setup is going to cost a few thousand more than a supercharger setup because of all the extra bits required.

[Lucrecio84]

Originally Posted by lonestar22

thought id revisit this thread to see what everyone was saying about my comment and im quite surprised. the last thing i was trying to do was compare the M3 to the 335i. What i was comparing was the fact that there are 1000+ hp CTS-V's out there (around the same price used) that arent running $20k turbo kits. thats all i was saying. no need to get bent out of shape. go look around outside of the BMW world and see that cars are making ALOT more power these days than they were 4 years ago.

Ummmm I HIGHLY doubt there are any cts-v's or even vette's for that matter running 1000hp on 91

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

They never quoted any price. Just speculation.

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

$20k has been the rumor mill numbers, and if that's actually what it turns out to be that's a solid deal when 650 BHP supercharger kits are $13-15k, and you're getting a lot more piping, two turbos/BOVs/WGs/etc. No one should be surprised that a turbo setup is going to cost a few thousand more than a supercharger setup because of all the extra bits required.

No need for speculation when you can go straight to Gintani's own comments. I haven't followed the subject that closely so I don't know if anything has changed and that's why everybody is now speculating?

Originally Posted by Sales@Gintani.com

Here's some ballpark pricing, we are expecting the kit to be anywhere from $15,000 - $18,000.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=351

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

...Also, a 6MT will be "in boost" longer because of the gearing (not comparing aftermarket gearing swaps).

Huh? This would not be true of final drive swaps, and only true for true internal gear ratio swaps. I'm not aware of any internal gear ratio swaps. Do you have any data or spec sheets you can provide about this? Final drive swaps don't change the ratios, and therefore don't change the RPM drops, and therefore don't change the amount of time in each gear, and therefore don't change the amount of time the car will be "in boost" (relative to RPM). If you run the math on RPM drops on the stock final drive, you will find if you change the final drive that all of the RPM drops between gears will stay the same.

[Jonjt]

Originally Posted by okusa

Wonder how many forum members had that same thought at one point...

Originally Posted by Hujan

Famous last words before you slip into the modding abyss.

I remember before I got my M3 I thought that I would never mod it. Mod a 335i, sure, but never an M3. Ha!

My argument may not hold water for most but, the cost of entry will surely price some out. FBO on a 335i is cheap. Even if you throw in the cost of wheels and tires, it's far less than the cost of the cheapest supercharger kits on the market.

Buying an LCI S65 today would cost at least 45k. Add the cost of taxes, insurance, registration on top of the ~15k you'd have to spend on a supercharger, wheels and tires and you've got a convincing argument to leave the car NA.

[ridin135]

Originally Posted by Lucrecio84

Ummmm I HIGHLY doubt there are any cts-v's or even vette's for that matter running 1000hp on 91

I hope your being sarcastic there have been many V's especially vettes in the 1,000+ whp range for years let alone 1,000bhp. Hell there are 2,000 hp corvettes out there. I really adore BMW's but they are not made for big power. If your looking for big power American cars are the cheapest to get there.

[GQ_335xi]

Interesting to see how far this goes.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Jonjt

My argument may not hold water for most but, the cost of entry will surely price some out. FBO on a 335i is cheap. Even if you throw in the cost of wheels and tires, it's far less than the cost of the cheapest supercharger kits on the market.

Buying an LCI S65 today would cost at least 45k. Add the cost of taxes, insurance, registration on top of the ~15k you'd have to spend on a supercharger, wheels and tires and you've got a convincing argument to leave the car NA.

But the cheapest supercharger kit will easily outrun any FBO 335, and also wheels are not necessary, just a good set of rubber will do! IMHO a ~150hp gain for $6-8k is a pretty good deal for a car like the M3!

[pbonsalb]

You may be satisfied with a stage 1 centrifugal, but there will always be those who want more. There will also always be people who mod their cars without much regard for whether the cost of the mod makes sense in terms of what they could sell the car or mod for later or what faster car they could buy instead.

I like the used centrifugal as the bang for the buck option, but there is no doubt the turbo has more power under the curve. I ran a centrifugal on my E36M3 in stage 1 and 2 and 3 form before changing to a turbo and the daily driving difference is dramatic since you need not wait until redline to get full boost.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Lucrecio84

Ummmm I HIGHLY doubt there are any cts-v's or even vette's for that matter running 1000hp on 91

We have built 3 of them

[Lucrecio84]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

Guess again we have built 3 of them

On 91 octane????? Ill believe it when I see it

[Jonjt]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

But the cheapest supercharger kit will easily outrun any FBO 335, and also wheels are not necessary, just a good set of rubber will do! IMHO a ~150hp gain for $6-8k is a pretty good deal for a car like the M3!

Right but, the initial investment is still much higher. You can get an LCI 335 for about 10k less than an M3. The N54 335is are even cheaper. Add FBO and you've got a very fast car (and you spent about 4k). Spend about 12k more and then you have a supercharged M3. Sure, it's much faster but, it's also 12k more expensive, not including insurance, registration and taxes.

My point was the cost-of-entry is much higher for the M3. That's all.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Jonjt

Right but, the initial investment is still much higher. You can get an LCI 335 for about 10k less than an M3. The N54 335is are even cheaper. Add FBO and you've got a very fast car (and you spent about 4k). Spend about 12k more and then you have a supercharged M3. Sure, it's much faster but, it's also 12k more expensive, not including insurance, registration and taxes.

My point was the cost-of-entry is much higher for the M3. That's all.

I won't get into a 335 vs M3 debate but I'll say this, when you pay 10k more for an M3 instead of a 335, it's not more straight line accelaration that you pay for, it's a complete package, if you don't care for that package, don't buy an M3 IMO!

But if you care for that package, the M3 is a deal compared to modding a 335!

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Lucrecio84

On 91 octane????? Ill believe it when I see it

As per the "About" portion when viewing the video on YouTube:

"55' Chevy with 454 cubic inch big block with Whipple 8.3 liter fuel injected supercharger making 1000hp on 91 octane pump gas."

[Lucrecio84]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

As per the "About" portion when viewing the video on YouTube:

That is very impressive but c'mon man that thing is a hair short of being a drag car. I chimed in because someone mentioned the finals numbers on a stock motor with a very conservative tune being dissappointing and you throw that video at me? Lol Im sure an m3 with a fully built motor and bigger turbos would be just as impressive with 50% less displacement then that car not to mention probably much more daily driver friendly.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Lucrecio84

That is very impressive but c'mon man that thing is a hair short of being a drag car.

DD x2
91 + Meth = 1025hp non-drag car.

1999 Chevy Camaro ,1020 rwhp and 957.8 rwtq on 17.5psi with 91 octane pump gas. 408 LSx 91mm Turbo

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

You may be satisfied with a stage 1 centrifugal, but there will always be those who want more. There will also always be people who mod their cars without much regard for whether the cost of the mod makes sense in terms of what they could sell the car or mod for later or what faster car they could buy instead.

I like the used centrifugal as the bang for the buck option, but there is no doubt the turbo has more power under the curve. I ran a centrifugal on my E36M3 in stage 1 and 2 and 3 form before changing to a turbo and the daily driving difference is dramatic since you need not wait until redline to get full boost.

I'm also one that always wants more but I'm also limited in budget so I went with the best bang for the buck with the S65 and will try to leave it like that. Going with a intercooled kit running more boost would probably mean the need for rod bearings replacement and then the $/hp ratio would drop dramaticly compared to my simple VT1+test pipes, and honestly my VT1 is not lacking anything at high RPM, it's down low that a bit more would be appreciate!

So instead of dropping more money into the M, I bought an Evo X MR(wanted a winter beater) and brought it around 400hp/400tq with less then $2k of mods. So now I have a really fun daily beater with DCT, nice sound and lots of low end torque and a 575hp high revving V8 for the more special occasions, I can't be happyer! It's the first time I own two cars at the same time, and honestly, constantly switching between the two and the fact that both cars are so different(DCT 4banger turbo vs manual high rev scdV8) really makes me aprreciate them more for what they are!!

[Jonjt]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I won't get into a 335 vs M3 debate but I'll say this, when you pay 10k more for an M3 instead of a 335, it's not more straight line accelaration that you pay for, it's a complete package, if you don't care for that package, don't buy an M3 IMO!

But if you care for that package, the M3 is a deal compared to modding a 335!

You've missed the point. This was never a 335ivsM3 debate. It's about not having enough money to buy an M3. Desire has nothing to do with it. If you dont have the money, you dont have it. Period

I said this from the beginning. I have reservations about spending all that money on any car, M3 or otherwise. I will be the first to say that an M3 is a better choice than even an FBO 335i but, an FBO 335i is still the cheaper car. I can put the difference into something as simple as an index fund and watch my money grow. A supercharged M3 will always be a bad investment, worse than a 335i, any way you cut it. It will never make me any money.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Lucrecio84

On 91 octane????? Ill believe it when I see it

I realize you didn't say this explicitly, but you imply it with that comment. It sounds like you would believe 1000hp on something like 93 octane, and that means you'll also believe something like 950hp on 91 octane (which would be a guestimate of the difference between the two). But it's that extra 50hp that is hard to believe?

I'm not sure I follow that reasoning. If that's not what you meant, then please explain.

Within two months of the CTSV's release, there was a shop in SoCal (Church's Automotive) that dyno's 950whp right before SEMA. That would be approximately 1080 crank horsepower. I was there the day after and they were all talking about it. And that was only two or three months after the car was released. I don't know what gas they used however.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Jonjt

You've missed the point. This was never a 335ivsM3 debate. It's about not having enough money to buy an M3. Desire has nothing to do with it. If you dont have the money, you dont have it. Period

I said this from the beginning. I have reservations about spending all that money on any car, M3 or otherwise. I will be the first to say that an M3 is a better choice than even an FBO 335i but, an FBO 335i is still the cheaper car. I can put the difference into something as simple as an index fund and watch my money grow. A supercharged M3 will always be a bad investment, worse than a 335i, any way you cut it. It will never make me any money.

Point taken!

But one thing I disagree is that an M3 is a worst investment then a 335, it will always depends what year and condition you buy but generally, a 335 will have a bigger % of depreciation then an M3, and theoricly, the M3 should also be more reliable!

[Soorena]

1175 HP with 1100 TQ using pump gas and 1650 HP with 1600
TQ using race gas at only 14 PSI.

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/p..._454lsx_tt.pdf
It's a LSX small block.