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09-01-2010, 08:47 AM | #45 |
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I recently was in the same position as the OP. I couldnt decide between M3 or S4
A good friend of mine bought the new S4 and I have to say that audi's interior is very impressive. They are two completely different cars tho. In the end I went with the M3 because I personally find it more aggressive. In the end like mentioned before you can't go wrong with either. Both are amazing vehicles. |
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09-01-2010, 02:20 PM | #46 |
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This thread is bugging me.... are we honestly comparing a M3 against a 335i competitor for almost the same $$ as the M3? You lease guys are switching to an inferior Audi (vs M3)?
A S5 I might understand....but a S4? |
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09-01-2010, 02:51 PM | #47 | |
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I agree that they shouldn't be directly compared but the performance numbers and the odd pricing makes it an attractive comparision.
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09-01-2010, 03:33 PM | #48 | |
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In terms of acceleration the M3 records 1/4 mile speeds between 111-116 mph, all stock. The S4 is nowhere near that. The S4 (and 335i for that matter) may seem fast by the seat of the pants but that doesn't mean they are faster. What you feel during a regular test drive is far from the true potential of the M3 - it leads some to think it's a little overhyped. But when this happens, you're not even scratching 50% of the performance envelope. When the S4 and 335i are reaching the end of their reserves and capabilities, the M3 is just getting started. It may sound elitist or snobbish, but it's the pure truth - when driven really hard, the M3 is frighteningly fast and can do things that are not in the S4/335i repertoire. I agree with you on S4 pricing though - it's on the high side.
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09-01-2010, 06:39 PM | #49 | |
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The S5 Coupe still has the crappy old 4.2 V8. The S4 outperforms the S5 in all but sound of engine.
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09-01-2010, 06:40 PM | #50 | |
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Base S4 starts at 51k here in Canada and base M3 at 71k... Not even close here.
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09-01-2010, 09:02 PM | #51 |
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Yeah I'm not sure how an S4 is only a few thousand less. It's only like that in the US if you get a fully loaded S4 against a stripper M3. I priced out a fully loaded S4 (with discount) at 51k. Comparably equipped M3 is no where near that.
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09-01-2010, 09:39 PM | #52 | |
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Here's the breakdown: 2011 S4 (MSRP) - Prestige S4 with S-tronic - $54,300 Phantom Black Pearl Paint - $475 Two-tone Nappa Leather - $1000 Audi Drive Select - $3950 Rear side airbags - $350 Destination - $875 Total (without TTL) - $60,950 Total less 5% for ED (without TTL) - $57900 2011.5 M3: Base Sedan ED Invoice - $47,400 Jerez Black Metallic Paint - $500 Competition Package - $2250 Convenience Package - $2640 Premium Package 2 - $2275 M DCT - $2640 Heated Front Seats - $455 Moonroof - $955 Destination - $875 Gas Guzzler - $1300 Total (without TTL) - $61290 Total (less $500 discount for being BMW CCA member + $500 quoted dealer fee for processing deal) - $61290 Difference - $3390 Granted, if I decide to add in the Premium sound package for the M3, it will add an additional $1730 to the bill and widen the gap some. There's more though. Finance or lease, either way it evens the tally more. The residual on the BMW is 54% (36 month with 12k/yr allocation) and the Audi is 47%, with roughly equivalent MF. The finance rates are 1.9% for BMW (or if you're willing to do less than 36 month, 0.9%), and 3.9% for Audi. If you go with an independent finance company, the APR gets a little closer for the Audi with 2.99%. So running the finance option through a loan calculator, the monthly payment for each is (assuming 5 year loan @ 1.9% for the M3 and 2.99% for S4): S4 - $1102.54 M3 - $1134.23 My lease calculations were giving me monthly payments on the order of: S4 - $1010.XX M3 - $918.00 But assuming we go with the loan, that's roughly $30 a month less for the S4. So I would say the prices are close. Adding in the Premium sound option for the M3 would widen it another $30/month or so, but it's still not that compelling. I wouldn't call the M3 a stripper by any stretch as it currently is, either, it's pretty well loaded really. And we haven't completely loaded the S4 either (no lane change warning feature, Titanium package, inlays, etc). Addressing the comment about how the S4 and M3 aren't competitors for a moment, I've never cared much about what car companies or automotive rags consider proper competition. I'll grant that I didn't actually take the cars to the track, but I definitely went on some very thorough test drives in which I put the cars through their paces pretty well. I'm definitely no expert, but I've got about 10-15 track events under my belt and I typically run in the advanced groups (though it's been a couple years), so I'm not totally ignorant (just mostly ) of how to drive a car. My honest opinion is that two people in these two cars running on back roads would have to be operating at vastly different skill levels for either one to pull ahead. And with that said, driver skill could easily put the S4 in the lead. Even talking about the rest of the car (which I've already done in detail I suppose), though I feel that the S4 interior materials appear and feel slightly inferior to the M3, overall it's pretty competitive there too. On the track during a time trial, sure, the M3 wins hands down. And even when it's doing it's thing on the back roads, it _feels_ a hell of a lot better, but to me, I still think the S4 offers at least _reasonable_ competition to the M3. In fact, after test driving the MB C63 AMG tonight, I think the S4 is a better competitor than the real competition.
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09-01-2010, 09:40 PM | #53 |
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Incidentally, I've decided on the M3.
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09-02-2010, 09:06 AM | #54 |
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Congrats!!
It was a no brainer anyway.
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09-02-2010, 09:19 AM | #55 |
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Would you mind sharing your impressions of the C63? I'm curious...
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09-02-2010, 10:30 AM | #56 |
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A dark black tinted out S4 stepped up to me late afternoon yesterday at a red light. I am not through my break in period so I did not want to push it hard. It didn't take pushing it hard much to shame the S4. With the road winding up ahead and some traffic around, the handling on the M3 was a clear win vs the S4. Either that or the other driver was a completely and utter failure.
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09-02-2010, 10:51 AM | #57 |
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No problem. Here you go
Overall it was a great car, but not adequate next to the M3 or even S4., imo.
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09-02-2010, 03:12 PM | #58 |
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Did you consider lightly used RS4?
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09-02-2010, 08:51 PM | #59 |
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Very detailed writeup; I've agreed with just about everything you've said neon.
I recently joined this forum, as I'm also considering a s4 or a used m3 to replace my beloved b5 s4. I'm crazy about the shape of the s5, but I'm not really interested in it's v8, thus my interest in another s4. However, the s4 does seem somewhat pedestrian in the wow department compared to the s5, and certainly the m3. Easy solution: have Audi finally put the s4 engine in the s5, add APR's new tune to give it what she's lacking up top, and an exhaust to wake it up. The m3 is a visceral animal. What has me still unsure is the low rpm torque difference you mentioned. I like the low lump of torque; my current stage 2 s4 is similar to your previous 335 setup. When the m3 is pushed, there is no doubt its a performer...but I don't know how often I'd get to take full advantage of her (or if I did, my license would be in jeopardy). I'm also considering a used Cayman S, but that's another story... |
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09-03-2010, 02:33 PM | #60 |
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What? Nobody's yet mentioned the RS5? Oh, yeah, you wanted four doors.
Still, it's something I'd consider if you can wait until it comes to the US. (It is coming, isn't it?) The S4, even though Audi's done a good job of masking it, is still too nose heavy. Perhaps it only comes out during very "spirited" driving so maybe its not a very valid point. Good luck. Cheers.
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09-03-2010, 06:54 PM | #61 | |
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09-03-2010, 09:13 PM | #63 | |
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09-03-2010, 09:15 PM | #64 | |
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09-03-2010, 09:37 PM | #65 |
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Hey Neon,
Your posts got me very curious about the S4. I was wondering if this car was really that special for you to have so much difficulty choosing between it and the M3. Well, today I went to the Audi dealership and took one out for a spin. Within a few moments of driving it I said to myself WTF is so special about this car that someone would seriously debate choosing this over the M3 for the same kind of monthly payment?? In all honesty, I could not find the answer to that question. There was absolutely nothing in the S4 that made me think the M3 was inferior in any way. Nothing...... FWIW, I think you chose the right car in the end but damn you should consider working for Audi..... or do you already? Last edited by TailHappyM3; 09-04-2010 at 11:11 AM.. |
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09-04-2010, 08:43 AM | #66 | |
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The boys on the S4 forums have the same complaints about the plastic dash trim. One guy trimmed it to match the alcantera in the base seats. Not my cup of tea, but I am sure there will be aftermarket options to fix that on the Audi. The M3 however, incorporating the EDC buttons etc, the only solution is going to come from BMW, and I bet dollars to doughnuts they will only sell those replacement parts to people with Individual VIN's. I'm still ridding the fence on the same decision as you. In Canada ED has no discount, and the price difference for me similarly equipped is $12,000. Those who say there is no comparison, have a very clear idea in their minds of their personal requirements in a car, and one fits like a glove, the other may feel like a kids mitten. I agree that the S4 and the M3 are worthy of comparison, at the end of the day there are only so many "sports sedans" we can choose from, especially in North America. For me I want a quality, fast, fun, luxury sports sedan. How far up the scale you go, or down which path your journey is skewed is a personal choice. In truth, if I ask myself the no regrets question. The M3 is the only car that meets that criteria.
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