991 C4S

[414M3]

I recently had the opportunity to drive a 2015 4S at the local Porsche dealership. Going into the test drive, I was pretty excited as I've always heard great things about the 911 platform.

My first impressions as the salesman brought out the car was that the exhaust sounded horrible at idle, almost like a lawnmower. I had the same criticism when I drove a M4 a few months ago.

Stepping inside the cabin, the black interior looked great, with aluminum trim and comfortable 18 way seats. I felt more connected to the car than the E92 cabin. Obviously, the 911 seemed much compact in the drivers seat than my E92 and therefore, more nimble.

At low speeds, the PDK was very responsive and smoother than my DCT. The Sports Exhaust sounded much better inside the cabin and while on the throttle. The burble when you let off the throttle also sounded great.

However, my major criticisms with the car were handling, steering feel and power. I've never driven a rear-engined car before and I wasn't able to go on very spirited roads as the dealership is in the middle of suburbia. However, I did have some slightly winding roads and a few places to really push the car.

At low speeds, the suspension did not seem that tight (in Sport Plus) and my M3 seemed more connected to the road. Also, at low speeds the electric steering seemed artificial. I know I'm spoiled with the hydraulic rack in the M3 but the steering was devoid of feel and seemed very artificial. The wheel also wasn't heavy even in Sport Plus at lower speeds. The sales guy mentioned that the car was equipped with Power Steering Plus which makes the wheel lighter at low speeds but it seemed comically bad.

Lastly, the car did not feel very fast with two passengers in the car. I realize there was an extra 150-200 pounds in the car than normally would be but even launch control did not leave me amazed. I wasn't expecting the car to be very fast because on paper, it shouldn't be much faster than my M3 but it was disappointing on a car that MSRP's for 130k loaded.

Overall, I felt the car wasn't that much more of a car than my current E92. I'll admit that the cabin luxury, transmission, and road comfort were a tad better than the M3 but I wasn't blown away. For almost double the price, I was expecting more of a car.

Has anyone else driven a C4S after owning the M3 and not been blown away? I'm also considering a Jaguar F-type Coupe R or maybe stepping up to a 911TT. Would either of these cars give me the excitement I didn't feel in the C4S?

[pooyab]

I think the F-Type R will put a bigger smile on your face. Some of my friends put the R against a GTR in a rolling run and it keeps up. Wouldn't be too bad in a launch either, old on had traction problems but new one is AWD.

[sgrinavi]

I agree, the 991 does feel tame, but I think you would be surprised at how much faster it is on a track than your M3. 997 is more visceral car with that epic Porsche road feel.

[clar]

Originally Posted by 414M3

I recently had the opportunity to drive a 2015 4S at the local Porsche dealership. Going into the test drive, I was pretty excited as I've always heard great things about the 911 platform.

My first impressions as the salesman brought out the car was that the exhaust sounded horrible at idle, almost like a lawnmower. I had the same criticism when I drove a M4 a few months ago.

Stepping inside the cabin, the black interior looked great, with aluminum trim and comfortable 18 way seats. I felt more connected to the car than the E92 cabin. Obviously, the 911 seemed much compact in the drivers seat than my E92 and therefore, more nimble.

At low speeds, the PDK was very responsive and smoother than my DCT. The Sports Exhaust sounded much better inside the cabin and while on the throttle. The burble when you let off the throttle also sounded great.

However, my major criticisms with the car were handling, steering feel and power. I've never driven a rear-engined car before and I wasn't able to go on very spirited roads as the dealership is in the middle of suburbia. However, I did have some slightly winding roads and a few places to really push the car.

At low speeds, the suspension did not seem that tight (in Sport Plus) and my M3 seemed more connected to the road. Also, at low speeds the electric steering seemed artificial. I know I'm spoiled with the hydraulic rack in the M3 but the steering was devoid of feel and seemed very artificial. The wheel also wasn't heavy even in Sport Plus at lower speeds. The sales guy mentioned that the car was equipped with Power Steering Plus which makes the wheel lighter at low speeds but it seemed comically bad.

Lastly, the car did not feel very fast with two passengers in the car. I realize there was an extra 150-200 pounds in the car than normally would be but even launch control did not leave me amazed. I wasn't expecting the car to be very fast because on paper, it shouldn't be much faster than my M3 but it was disappointing on a car that MSRP's for 130k loaded.

Overall, I felt the car wasn't that much more of a car than my current E92. I'll admit that the cabin luxury, transmission, and road comfort were a tad better than the M3 but I wasn't blown away. For almost double the price, I was expecting more of a car.

Has anyone else driven a C4S after owning the M3 and not been blown away? I'm also considering a Jaguar F-type Coupe R or maybe stepping up to a 911TT. Would either of these cars give me the excitement I didn't feel in the C4S?

I test drove a C2S with the intention of replacing my E92 M3 with it, but was very disappointed with it. My complain was mostly with the engine. It sounded like a sewing machine and din pull hard either. Steering feel was lack lustre. It felt more nimble though. I expected much more for that asking price and legendary status.

[New2Roundel]

I've spent some time in a 997 C2, 997 C2S, and several 991 carreras. I 've also spent some time behind the wheel of a 987 Boxster and a 981 Cayman S. None of the Carreras felt nearly as special as I would have hoped, given the decades long praise that is heaped upon pretty much every generation of 911. Personally, I liked my time in the Boxster/Cayman as they felt a lot more lively and engaging than the Carreras.

If I was looking for something to replace the M3 with, I'd avoid the Carrera and Carrera S.

[Ezio]

the performance is nothing to talk about. But when you add in the looks, feel, and performance the car starts to become from appealing. You also gotta want that name.

[JTO24]

I dunno I loved my C2 and C2S test drives last summer.. a 991.1 C2S is high on my list for my next car if my budget allows it.

[dparm]

Just curious why you didn't drive a C2S back-to-back? What about a Cayman?

[Longboarder]

The problem is that you are coming from an e92 DCT M3, which as I drive more and more high end cars I'm coming to the conclusion that it is one of the best cars ever made.

[heartcolorgrey]

Originally Posted by 414M3

My first impressions as the salesman brought out the car was that the exhaust sounded horrible at idle, almost like a lawnmower.

However, my major criticisms with the car were handling, steering feel and power.

At low speeds, the suspension did not seem that tight (in Sport Plus)

Lastly, the car did not feel very fast with two passengers in the car.

Overall, I felt the car wasn't that much more of a car than my current E92. I'll admit that the cabin luxury, transmission, and road comfort were a tad better than the M3 but I wasn't blown away. For almost double the price, I was expecting more of a car.

Has anyone else driven a C4S after owning the M3 and not been blown away?

I test drove a caymanS and C4S 2014 a while back, and just recently an Alfa 4c.

I really think it depends on the transmission and how hard you pushed the car. I wasn't impressed with the caymanS at all. It handled nice, but it was PDK and nowhere near the Power of the e92.
But then I drove the c4s 7MT, and absolutely loved it.

I have the MPE/Green Filter combo on my car and found the 991 exhaust/engine sound very much to my liking. Remember, after our cars are warm, they dont have much idle either.

I don't see how you can even compare the handling, the 911 wins hands down in road handling.

I think what you mean to say is you very much miss the hydraulic steering racks like we all do.

That "Fast" feeling is there in the 991, just needs to be pushed to obtain, just like we need to wind out our engines. You may need to experience a true test drive before writing it off.

[LarThaL]

So after over 3 months of ownership of my Cayman GTS, I can tell you that it is FAR more capable on a twisty road than the M3. The steering definitely feels a little artificial but if the e92 M3 steering gets a grade of 100, then the Porsche is a 95.

In terms of chassis control, body dynamics, etc, the Cayman is simply in a different league. Likewise with the overall fit and finish of the interior, exterior body panels, etc.

The PSE sounds better than the M3 when you are running, even with the MPE, but it does not sound as good at idle.

The S65 engine, however, feels much better than the Porsche flat 6. The sound, the free-revving feel. It is still the best engine I have ever experienced.

Overall, I do much prefer my Cayman in GTS trim, but the S65 engine is simply a masterpiece, no doubt.

It is interesting on people's comments about power. Objectively the Cayman S/GTS are pretty much even with the e9x M3 in terms of straight line performance. This is a fact. The M3's motor revs faster and, as such, has a more frenetic feel to the experience. Keep the revs up in the Porsche, however, and it definitely feels fast also. A 911 on the other hand, is significantly faster than an e9x.

I think most people's feeling is that while Posche definitely offers an overall superior driving experience, the e9x M3 is a tremendous bang for the buck car, with an engine that is just a jewel compared to anything, at any price.

[clar]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

The problem is that you are coming from an e92 DCT M3, which as I drive more and more high end cars I'm coming to the conclusion that it is one of the best cars ever made.

Completely agree! Here I am driving my Speciale with the best na V8 engine the world has ever seen and I'm wishing it could sound as good as the S65 in my prev E92 M3. The S65 only gives away top end power when compared to the Speciale, but never character and aural pleasure! The DCT in the M3 also leaves nothing much to be desired. I wished for the longest time for BMW to put that engine or the S85 in a more focused sports car, but they couldn't be bothered. I will say I was forced to jump ship to higher end cars.

[Harry Da Hamster]

Originally Posted by clar

Completely agree! Here I am driving my Speciale with the best na V8 engine the world has ever seen and I'm wishing it could sound as good as the S65 in my prev E92 M3. The S65 only gives away top end power when compared to the Speciale, but never character and aural pleasure! The DCT in the M3 also leaves nothing much to be desired. I wished for the longest time for BMW to put that engine or the S85 in a more focused sports car, but they couldn't be bothered. I will say I was forced to jump ship to higher end cars.

Wow that made me feel nice and tingly inside knowing the S65 can be compared with a 458 Speciale.

I'd still rather own a Carrera S or GTS over a M3 though.

[clar]

Originally Posted by FNG

Wow that made me feel nice and tingly inside knowing the S65 can be compared with a 458 Speciale.

I'd still rather own a Carrera S or GTS over a M3 though.

It can, but only if u can see beyond the badge.

[ONEOF40 FS M3]

Originally Posted by 414M3

I recently had the opportunity to drive a 2015 4S at the local Porsche dealership. Going into the test drive, I was pretty excited as I've always heard great things about the 911 platform.

My first impressions as the salesman brought out the car was that the exhaust sounded horrible at idle, almost like a lawnmower. I had the same criticism when I drove a M4 a few months ago.

Stepping inside the cabin, the black interior looked great, with aluminum trim and comfortable 18 way seats. I felt more connected to the car than the E92 cabin. Obviously, the 911 seemed much compact in the drivers seat than my E92 and therefore, more nimble.

At low speeds, the PDK was very responsive and smoother than my DCT. The Sports Exhaust sounded much better inside the cabin and while on the throttle. The burble when you let off the throttle also sounded great.

However, my major criticisms with the car were handling, steering feel and power. I've never driven a rear-engined car before and I wasn't able to go on very spirited roads as the dealership is in the middle of suburbia. However, I did have some slightly winding roads and a few places to really push the car.

At low speeds, the suspension did not seem that tight (in Sport Plus) and my M3 seemed more connected to the road. Also, at low speeds the electric steering seemed artificial. I know I'm spoiled with the hydraulic rack in the M3 but the steering was devoid of feel and seemed very artificial. The wheel also wasn't heavy even in Sport Plus at lower speeds. The sales guy mentioned that the car was equipped with Power Steering Plus which makes the wheel lighter at low speeds but it seemed comically bad.

Lastly, the car did not feel very fast with two passengers in the car. I realize there was an extra 150-200 pounds in the car than normally would be but even launch control did not leave me amazed. I wasn't expecting the car to be very fast because on paper, it shouldn't be much faster than my M3 but it was disappointing on a car that MSRP's for 130k loaded.

Overall, I felt the car wasn't that much more of a car than my current E92. I'll admit that the cabin luxury, transmission, and road comfort were a tad better than the M3 but I wasn't blown away. For almost double the price, I was expecting more of a car.

Has anyone else driven a C4S after owning the M3 and not been blown away? I'm also considering a Jaguar F-type Coupe R or maybe stepping up to a 911TT. Would either of these cars give me the excitement I didn't feel in the C4S?

I own both (2012 E92 M3 Frozen Silver Edition w/ MPE and 2014 991 C2S MT w/ PPE) and in a few words....the E92 engine is more unique but the 991 is a much better performance car and more capable overall than the E92 M3. Both engines sounds are magnificent, it is not a matter of which one is better, thats all subjective; they are just different sounds and loudness does not equal to good sound.

If I had to choose one car, glad I dont have to , it would be the 991 all day all night.

New 2016 991 GTS coming in two months

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

So after over 3 months of ownership of my Cayman GTS, I can tell you that it is FAR more capable on a twisty road than the M3.

You're comparing a car with a FR layout based a chassis that starts at least $10k less than the MR sports car comparator. It goes back to the argument of how much you can afford to or want to sacrifice practicality.

Originally Posted by ONEOF40 FS M3

I own both (2012 E92 M3 Frozen Silver Edition w/ MPE and 2014 991 C2S MT w/ PPE) and in a few words....the E92 engine is more unique but the 991 is a much better performance car and more capable overall than the E92 M3.

As it should be! The 991 in any guise doesn't compete the the e9x M3--which according to BMW's own literature, is a 997 competitor. Personally, I didn't find the 997 any more engaging than the M3 when driven sanely on the road. Could be a different story on the track however.

[Dave07997S]

Ill be honest, I considered going back into a PCar. I sold my 07 997S to get into my 2011 M3. At the end of the lease for the 11 M3 I went to go drive a 991S as they had great 27 mos. lease specials on the car making the payment only a few hundred dollars more per month than what I was paying with the M3. I liked it, but not enough to make the change. My FBO 2011 M3 felt much more visceral. My 07 997S was a FBO (X51 headers, Plenum, X51 intake and AWE 200 cpi cats) and it was a screamer, but still didn't have the urgency of my FBO 2011 M3. I ended up back in a 2013 M3 and I am thrilled with it. In fact the only car I would even consider right now to get me out of this thing would be a GT350 and that would be a tough sell.

One thing about the 911s, they don't feel that fast but you get someone who knows how to drive it and they will embarrass you with it. The M3 feels like a better 8/10s car while the 911 lives to live at the limit.

Dave

[omegaSMP300]

I'm moving to a 991 4s. Interior and infotainment system I see as an upgrade (personal presence of course). The hydrolic steering in the 997s and e9xs feels much better than the new Porsche electronically assisted steering. However, I do think Porsche did better job than BMW did with their eps F8xs, which I find to be too artificially weighted. The 991 variants are superior in my eye but I do love the m3 and think they are great cars.

[8k3]

Originally Posted by 414M3

I recently had the opportunity to drive a 2015 4S at the local Porsche dealership. Going into the test drive, I was pretty excited as I've always heard great things about the 911 platform.

My first impressions as the salesman brought out the car was that the exhaust sounded horrible at idle, almost like a lawnmower. I had the same criticism when I drove a M4 a few months ago.

Stepping inside the cabin, the black interior looked great, with aluminum trim and comfortable 18 way seats. I felt more connected to the car than the E92 cabin. Obviously, the 911 seemed much compact in the drivers seat than my E92 and therefore, more nimble.

At low speeds, the PDK was very responsive and smoother than my DCT. The Sports Exhaust sounded much better inside the cabin and while on the throttle. The burble when you let off the throttle also sounded great.

However, my major criticisms with the car were handling, steering feel and power. I've never driven a rear-engined car before and I wasn't able to go on very spirited roads as the dealership is in the middle of suburbia. However, I did have some slightly winding roads and a few places to really push the car.

At low speeds, the suspension did not seem that tight (in Sport Plus) and my M3 seemed more connected to the road. Also, at low speeds the electric steering seemed artificial. I know I'm spoiled with the hydraulic rack in the M3 but the steering was devoid of feel and seemed very artificial. The wheel also wasn't heavy even in Sport Plus at lower speeds. The sales guy mentioned that the car was equipped with Power Steering Plus which makes the wheel lighter at low speeds but it seemed comically bad.

Lastly, the car did not feel very fast with two passengers in the car. I realize there was an extra 150-200 pounds in the car than normally would be but even launch control did not leave me amazed. I wasn't expecting the car to be very fast because on paper, it shouldn't be much faster than my M3 but it was disappointing on a car that MSRP's for 130k loaded.

Overall, I felt the car wasn't that much more of a car than my current E92. I'll admit that the cabin luxury, transmission, and road comfort were a tad better than the M3 but I wasn't blown away. For almost double the price, I was expecting more of a car.

Has anyone else driven a C4S after owning the M3 and not been blown away? I'm also considering a Jaguar F-type Coupe R or maybe stepping up to a 911TT. Would either of these cars give me the excitement I didn't feel in the C4S?

Spot on. I hated the steering, absolutely no feedback, the car did not respond while laser sharp reaction either. Had adequate power however.

The GTS Cayman on the other hand BLEW my socks off. The handling was sublime, the power was more than exciting, and the pdk was insane. Best car I drove sub 100k hands down.

[quicktwinturbo]

Many 997 owners felt the same way about 991. I personally like the feel of my MK2 S (PDK) better than E92 M3.. 991 felt more comfortable but did not have that driver/road connection feeling..

[STALKER]

I sold my modded M3 for a 991 C4S. The Pcar is an entirely different league both on the road and the track IMO.

M3 is a great car at the price though. My M3 msrp was 50Gs less, so that does need to be taken into account.

I've since moved onto a GT3.