E92 M3 ZCP in SCCA Solo F Street

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by dkexige

Thoughts on proposed STU changes? No recording/link to STAC town hall on ST yesterday yet, but its mostly based on the April proposal:
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_fi...pdf?1584737978

Newer forced induction BMW M and Audi RS cars coming into STU. Most of the significant rule changes otherwise are around forced induction. NA RWD gets 315 tires (if we can even fit that), but I'm not sure I see it competitive against a prepped M2 on 295, or even a 981 Cayman S...?

Lots of people already fitting 295 front 315 rear A7/R7's on 18x11 in TT3 builds. Plenty of examples around here.
315 Square is going to be a difficult fit without cutting things.
Transmission tuning for DCT folks like myself would be great.
Prepped N55 M2 on 295 still probably a wildcard and could have a pretty good advantage but hard to really know without testing and those builds don't really exist yet. A couple of f80 ones do exist and they don't seem to be too fast.

[CSBM5]

Does anyone have any info on when the RE-71RS will be available in the US?

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Does anyone have any info on when the RE-71RS will be available in the US?

Last year they said it wasn’t coming here, but sounds like the RE71r is out from the people I’ve been talking to so if I had to guess I would think December/January? In the meantime rt660’s are looking like a good buy still.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Last year they said it wasn’t coming here, but sounds like the RE71r is out from the people I’ve been talking to so if I had to guess I would think December/January? In the meantime rt660’s are looking like a good buy still.

Thanks. Besides the obvious improvements of the new design, I'm also interested in the sizes shown (in Aussie market anyway) for the RE-71RS for next year on the M2C: 275/30-19 and 295/30-19. Currently running 255/35-19 and 275/35-19. It's probably a trade-off somewhat in responsiveness versus marginal increase in total grip, and maybe not one worth following...the taller 275/35-19 rear might even be a bit better at putting the power down over the 295/30-19.

[Neuner]

Any news on FS moves or changes for '21 or beyond? I've tuned out of autocross drama in the past 6mos and there aren't enough letters in 'BMW M3 FS' for search to work well..

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Neuner

Any news on FS moves or changes for '21 or beyond? I've tuned out of autocross drama in the past 6mos and there aren't enough letters in 'BMW M3 FS' for search to work well..

So far nothing, and I hope it doesn't change, but I have heard chatter about moving the "super ponies" (gt350 etc) down to FS. Nothing for sure yet but I'm hoping the BMW continues to stay.

[Richbot]

The superponies belong in FS where they can be the class leaders. It's dumb to have a domestic manufacturer step up and make an awesome track-special package and then bury it IMO

If a reasonably practical four-place foreign car occasionally is able to catch up to them, great, class it there too, but IMO, GT350 and 1LE and etc. belong in FS where the fastest-suspensioned always were until the Street transition

[Neuner]

Originally Posted by Richbot

The superponies belong in FS where they can be the class leaders. It's dumb to have a domestic manufacturer step up and make an awesome track-special package and then bury it IMO

If a reasonably practical four-place foreign car occasionally is able to catch up to them, great, class it there too, but IMO, GT350 and 1LE and etc. belong in FS where the fastest-suspensioned always were until the Street transition

I don't necessarily disagree with your logic but the other 90% of (un-super) pony riders might.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by Richbot

The superponies belong in FS where they can be the class leaders. It's dumb to have a domestic manufacturer step up and make an awesome track-special package and then bury it IMO

If a reasonably practical four-place foreign car occasionally is able to catch up to them, great, class it there too, but IMO, GT350 and 1LE and etc. belong in FS where the fastest-suspensioned always were until the Street transition

So you're just arbitrarily deciding that the super ponies deserve to win and the M3 doesn't? The newest super ponies are significantly more expensive and I can't possibly see how it will help participation to bury the M3 while also pulling those cars out of BS where they are competitively classed as it is. And with the GT350 now allowed to use the factory option camber plates, it'll be even more competitive.

[Richbot]

I'm not arbitrarily deciding anything, I don't have that power, sadly. But the 1LE and "hot" Mustangs have always been in FS. Then the Street transition happened and we lost our damn minds collectively, but things are a bit more settled now and I think it's pretty clear the PP2/Bullitt/1LE, at minimum, belong in FS, and if they belong in FS, are they any slower than the GT350, really? Field of dreams stuff, maybe, but worth finding out when the E9x has had its day

You're talking to one of the 2-3 people who *built out an AS E9xM* and *competed nationally (a couple times) in it* then wrote one of the letters that got it classed in F Stock. It's not like I'm not a fan of the platform. I think it's time for it to sunset out of FS as soon as somebody makes a 4-place RWD coupesedan thing that can take on the job. So far, it's not happened, except the superponies might be the thing. I'd support moving the entire sedan-car BS contingent down to FS. Time waits for no car

I also think this should be a 2023 proposal. 10 years from the last car rolling off the line.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I also think this should be a 2023 proposal. 10 years from the last car rolling off the line.

This part I could get behind.

[Tommysalami]

All this is with the caveat that I'm incredibly biased, obviously.

But as the M3s are getting even more affordable, and the ZCP still relatively easy to find, we kill it off? What will BS become after super ponies are moved out? Supras and M2s? I'd agree the Tesla shouldn't have been in BS but the other cars have a fair place to play already so I don't see the benefit in messing with it, even though maybe BS doesn't have as much of an "identity" at the moment.

There's also a line to be drawn in terms of performance. Just because newer faster variants of the Mustang and Camaro have come out doesn't mean they should be in FS. By that logic the latest hot version of any car deserves to be classed with its predecessor. So the newer M2 competition in BS. As well as the 2021 Supra, right?

I disagree with the idea of sunset as long as a car is available and affordable. If cars deserved to be sunset then what should ES turn into right now? or STS? Or should only German cars be sunset?

Unfortunately what I predict will happen is that due to the predicted volatility of FS, nobody is going to buy E92s to compete and participation will drop. That will then lead to changes to the class. I'd be content with locking it for a few years to see how things shake up with the super ponies in other classes and people figure out a change that improves both FS and BS (assuming cars would be pulled from BS). But right now it just seems that things are changing without a great reason.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Unfortunately what I predict will happen is that due to the predicted volatility of FS, nobody is going to buy E92s to compete and participation will drop. That will then lead to changes to the class. I'd be content with locking it for a few years to see how things shake up with the super ponies in other classes and people figure out a change that improves both FS and BS (assuming cars would be pulled from BS). But right now it just seems that things are changing without a great reason.

Maybe I am in a minority here but I actually want an FS M3 that's nicely optioned and un-modified like my current car. Ideally a comp pack 6MT with lower miles than the car I have now that can just be an autocross toy/weekend car and I'm starting to build a Spece46 racecar. So maybe my STU car will be for sale later this year. Not sure yet but, taking my current car backwards when its not the ideal spec already seems silly.
But prices on 6MT ZCP's are going up up up (40k right now seems to be the benchmark with low miles) and I really think a good way to do a legal ZCP conversion is going to be the only way to keep it affordable from an FS standpoint.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

All this is with the caveat that I'm incredibly biased, obviously.

But as the M3s are getting even more affordable, and the ZCP still relatively easy to find, we kill it off? What will BS become after super ponies are moved out? Supras and M2s? I'd agree the Tesla shouldn't have been in BS but the other cars have a fair place to play already so I don't see the benefit in messing with it, even though maybe BS doesn't have as much of an "identity" at the moment.

There's also a line to be drawn in terms of performance. Just because newer faster variants of the Mustang and Camaro have come out doesn't mean they should be in FS. By that logic the latest hot version of any car deserves to be classed with its predecessor. So the newer M2 competition in BS. As well as the 2021 Supra, right?

I disagree with the idea of sunset as long as a car is available and affordable. If cars deserved to be sunset then what should ES turn into right now? or STS? Or should only German cars be sunset?

Unfortunately what I predict will happen is that due to the predicted volatility of FS, nobody is going to buy E92s to compete and participation will drop. That will then lead to changes to the class. I'd be content with locking it for a few years to see how things shake up with the super ponies in other classes and people figure out a change that improves both FS and BS (assuming cars would be pulled from BS). But right now it just seems that things are changing without a great reason.

I think the E90M, in particular, might be the best dual-duty daily/Stock-class autocross car ever built. I would support an entire spec class just for that car, with retrofits to ZCP allowed for all E90M's, and maybe a camber plate up front to knock tire costs down a bit.

What I don't support is forcing people to buy a used car when the manufacturers who actually still *make* track-focused, autocross-ready, V8 powered pony cars can't even get their track-packs into a competitive position. What I'm focused on is keeping V8 noises alive in Stock class for as long as possible. I'm not worried about E9XM so much, what I'm worried about is the next generation Camarostang that is a hybridized 4-cylinder or similar, the "base" model being classed in FS and dominating. No more V8's. Everyone's sad. Porsches all over the place in SS/AS, hybrid turbo powertrains ruling FS, not on my watch. This is my gift to you, America

Note I will not be writing any letters on this subject this time, I'm just shitposting and if I ever go back to solo in my E90M it'll be in STU or whatever for funsies

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

Maybe I am in a minority here but I actually want an FS M3 that's nicely optioned and un-modified like my current car. Ideally a comp pack 6MT with lower miles than the car I have now that can just be an autocross toy/weekend car and I'm starting to build a Spece46 racecar. So maybe my STU car will be for sale later this year. Not sure yet but, taking my current car backwards when its not the ideal spec already seems silly.
But prices on 6MT ZCP's are going up up up (40k right now seems to be the benchmark with low miles) and I really think a good way to do a legal ZCP conversion is going to be the only way to keep it affordable from an FS standpoint.

Yeah I bought this car because it's so good without having to do anything to it.

[fsmtnbiker]

I agree that the FS M3 is a pretty epic daily/autocrosser.

I also agree with putting the superponies in FS. They are enormous. I don't think they kill off the M3 immediately. Maybe after a couple years of development the ponies start to consistently win. At that point the M3s are 10+ years old and someone can get them kicked out of ESP or go win STU again.

[Neuner]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

Yeah I bought this car because it's so good without having to do anything to it.

Me too.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

I agree that the FS M3 is a pretty epic daily/autocrosser.

I also agree with putting the superponies in FS. They are enormous. I don't think they kill off the M3 immediately. Maybe after a couple years of development the ponies start to consistently win. At that point the M3s are 10+ years old and someone can get them kicked out of ESP or go win STU again.

Seriously. They have to go an extra 10 feet through any given slalom element

[Kelse92]

I got to drive my student's new gt500 for a couple of laps on track this weekend... wow that car is massive and I thought these M3's were piggy.
Car handled nicely considering and wow all of that power on tap... but the size... oof.
That one is probably too much car for FS but I think the gt350 has a similar size and definitely at a disadvantage if that is the case.

[Richbot]

GT500's traction control system is supposedly much better too

[theBeardd]

Finally found the car I was looking for. Hopefully I'll see some of you at the Vegas Tour. One of our local venues got turned into a covid vaccination site, so unfortunately it looks like I won't get any practice in the new car before then.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by theBeardd

Finally found the car I was looking for. Hopefully I'll see some of you at the Vegas Tour. One of our local venues got turned into a covid vaccination site, so unfortunately it looks like I won't get any practice in the new car before then.

See you there!