newbie with a hub centric ring question

nickl630 · 02-28-2015, 08:52 PM

Howdy everyone!

Just recently picked up an E92 M3 coupe, having owned several BMW M's in the past (most recently an E60 M5) and I absolutely love it... besides one problem that's been killing me.. the car vibrates at 60+ mph almost violently sometimes in the steering wheel.

The car has aftermarket wheels that look like competition reps that are the factory size and look decent with new tread on them, the dealer mentioned it had hideous aftermarket wheels on them with bald tires so they replaced them with these.

The car has been to the shop 4+ times being balanced, new tie rods, new alignment etc until FINALLY they found the problem.. it needed some hub rings due to some minor play in size.

Heres the issue... I took my wheels off last night to clean them.. and guess what.. after putting the wheels back on the vibration came back! The spacers were plastic also and looked either mashed/damaged and too small (they were all cut so they could fit around the hub, too small maybe?)

I dont want this issue every time I take my wheels off... however it gets more complicated as the stock size of the E92 hub is 72.56 if im reading correctly.. and my wheels are 72.60. Would .04 mm make a difference? And is it even possible to find spaces that measure that size? The smallest ive seen is 72.6 to 74.1

Am I stuck with this issue every time I take my wheels off? This has been so frustrating! Thanks for the help in advance!

Chhr · 02-28-2015, 09:47 PM

I'm not an expert but yes .04mm does matter. It might be so small but you have to think about your wheel spinning at 2k-8k ram. . That multiples the off fitment on the hub which causes vibration. . Get new wheels or get outlet fitting hub rings. Obviously the are safety issues too.

HXS · 02-28-2015, 10:08 PM

When you put your wheels back on, why don't you see if it rests perfectly on the hub? I mean rest it on the hub without any wheel bolts. It should fit snug.

nickl630 · 02-28-2015, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HXS

When you put your wheels back on, why don't you see if it rests perfectly on the hub? I mean rest it on the hub without any wheel bolts. It should fit snug.

They do, however there is a pretty strong vibration from 60 to 80mph. Even the manufacturer of the wheels has said it shouldn't need a hub ring since the difference is marginal but so far that's the only thing that's solved it.

Helmsman · 03-01-2015, 10:43 AM

"Violent steering wheel vibration" - ouch, not good for any part of the front chassies bro. I'd search up a set of good used OEM rims and invest, right away.

Good luck

CIFUM3 · 03-01-2015, 11:49 AM

I bet you a beer its your rotors

nickl630 · 03-01-2015, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CIFUM3

I bet you a beer its your rotors

I'd agree with you but they resolved it when they put some rings on the wheels. My concern is when I removed my wheels to clean them they were damaged and undersized... however I cant seem to find the proper size or clearance of only .04mm and most people are saying .04 shouldn't make a difference but clearly it does.

W Cole · 03-01-2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CIFUM3

I bet you a beer its your rotors

I've had some minor vibration since bmw replaced mine. Is there a company that balances rotors? What can be done?

CIFUM3 · 03-01-2015, 01:46 PM

The reason I said rotors is because mine was having the same issues as OP described, I tried balancing, and new alignments and nothing. A friend recommended to get my rotors turned and they were warped beyond repair! New these suckers are too expensive so I bought some used ones with a claimed 5k miles on them, but the I installed those rotors the vibrations went away and haven't had them since, I plan on buying the two piece ECS rotors so just so I can have brand new rotors.

alpina-527 · 03-01-2015, 04:42 PM

.04mm of clearance is a perfect fit. Nothing at all wrong there.

My money would firmly be on the quality of the rep wheels. How many weights on the wheels?

Does the tyre run true when you spin the wheel by hand? No amount of balancing will cure a lumpy tyre.

nickl630 · 03-01-2015, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpina-527

.04mm of clearance is a perfect fit. Nothing at all wrong there.

My money would firmly be on the quality of the rep wheels. How many weights on the wheels?

Does the tyre run true when you spin the wheel by hand? No amount of balancing will cure a lumpy tyre.

This is my concern too, the fronts have a bunch of weights, once time 3 rows deep on one of the balances. Im trying to get the dealer I bought it from to replace the wheels with stocks... as I know it will solve my issues.

alpina-527 · 03-01-2015, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickl630

This is my concern too, the fronts have a bunch of weights, once time 3 rows deep on one of the balances. Im trying to get the dealer I bought it from to replace the wheels with stocks... as I know it will solve my issues.

That's your problem then.

**ben@tirerack** · 03-03-2015, 11:50 AM

The clearance definitely sounds too tight for a ring to be a viable solution. Nothing that thin is going to have any durability unless it's made of some exotic materials.

Here's another idea:
Maybe the wheels are designed to be hubcentric, but are just slightly imperfect in the machining of the centerbore. The M3 is very sensitive to that type of thing, so it wouldn't have to be much.

You might try treating them like wheels that are lug-centric. Torque them down in the star pattern with the weight of the vehicle supported by the jackstands or lift (and something wedged under the wheel to keep it from turning.) This will let the lugs pull the wheel centered. You may not get it perfect every time, but you may get it good-enough.

trbo94 · 03-13-2015, 10:41 PM

NickL630.. Wheel/tires were my living from 2005-2012 (just some background so that my answer can have come weight to it)

Look inside your wheels lug holes. And feel inside as well. There are 2 different types of seating for the lugs/bolts for wheels. ball and conical.

Ball is just as it sounds it would be like a ball or circle so the degree of taper would change just like a circle. The other is conical so the taper of the seat for the lug/bolts would be a constant (most common is 60 degree)

Your wheels being 72.6 and not 72.56 is not the issue I promise that. In the USA to sell a aftermarket wheel the wheel has to be DOT approved. And DOT standards for the US require the wheel to be load rated off the lugs/bots and not the hub. So aftermarket wheels have to fit correctly off the lugs/bots and not need the hub at all in short.

So I think you might have ball seat wheels and be using conical seat bolts. Or the reverse. If that is the case hub rings could stop the vibration but then the bolts that hold all the weight would not be seated correctly. Or I have seen (to many times for my liking) over spray in the lug holes. You could have some degree or paint in the lug/bolt holes that is not letting your bolts center the wheels.

Just some thoughts but from my experience I think it is one of those. Hope it helps.

02-28-2015, 08:52 PM	#1
nickl630 Captain 500 Rep 712 Posts Drives: 18 M3CS, 09 GTR Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Tampa, FL iTrader: (1)	newbie with a hub centric ring question Howdy everyone! Just recently picked up an E92 M3 coupe, having owned several BMW M's in the past (most recently an E60 M5) and I absolutely love it... besides one problem that's been killing me.. the car vibrates at 60+ mph almost violently sometimes in the steering wheel. The car has aftermarket wheels that look like competition reps that are the factory size and look decent with new tread on them, the dealer mentioned it had hideous aftermarket wheels on them with bald tires so they replaced them with these. The car has been to the shop 4+ times being balanced, new tie rods, new alignment etc until FINALLY they found the problem.. it needed some hub rings due to some minor play in size. Heres the issue... I took my wheels off last night to clean them.. and guess what.. after putting the wheels back on the vibration came back! The spacers were plastic also and looked either mashed/damaged and too small (they were all cut so they could fit around the hub, too small maybe?) I dont want this issue every time I take my wheels off... however it gets more complicated as the stock size of the E92 hub is 72.56 if im reading correctly.. and my wheels are 72.60. Would .04 mm make a difference? And is it even possible to find spaces that measure that size? The smallest ive seen is 72.6 to 74.1 Am I stuck with this issue every time I take my wheels off? This has been so frustrating! Thanks for the help in advance!
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02-28-2015, 09:47 PM	#2
Chhr Private 18 Rep 97 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ZCP Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: 626 iTrader: (1)	I'm not an expert but yes .04mm does matter. It might be so small but you have to think about your wheel spinning at 2k-8k ram. . That multiples the off fitment on the hub which causes vibration. . Get new wheels or get outlet fitting hub rings. Obviously the are safety issues too.
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02-28-2015, 10:08 PM	#3
HXS Licensed Drug Dealer 742 Rep 2,269 Posts Drives: F10 M5 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (7)	When you put your wheels back on, why don't you see if it rests perfectly on the hub? I mean rest it on the hub without any wheel bolts. It should fit snug.
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03-01-2015, 10:43 AM	#5
Helmsman Major General 4465 Rep 7,109 Posts Drives: 2011 AW E90 M3 ZCP Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Stockholm, Sweden iTrader: (0)	"Violent steering wheel vibration" - ouch, not good for any part of the front chassies bro. I'd search up a set of good used OEM rims and invest, right away. Good luck
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03-01-2015, 11:49 AM	#6
CIFUM3 Captain 103 Rep 999 Posts Drives: 08 E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Goodyear iTrader: (0)	I bet you a beer its your rotors __________________ Performance ESS 625 VT2 Supercharger - CAE Shifter - Revinora race+ axle back - Macht Schnell down pipes - SOSI X-pipe Looks M colors grill - CF trunk - Sapphire Blue Forgestars F14
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03-01-2015, 01:46 PM	#9
CIFUM3 Captain 103 Rep 999 Posts Drives: 08 E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Goodyear iTrader: (0)	The reason I said rotors is because mine was having the same issues as OP described, I tried balancing, and new alignments and nothing. A friend recommended to get my rotors turned and they were warped beyond repair! New these suckers are too expensive so I bought some used ones with a claimed 5k miles on them, but the I installed those rotors the vibrations went away and haven't had them since, I plan on buying the two piece ECS rotors so just so I can have brand new rotors. __________________ Performance ESS 625 VT2 Supercharger - CAE Shifter - Revinora race+ axle back - Macht Schnell down pipes - SOSI X-pipe Looks M colors grill - CF trunk - Sapphire Blue Forgestars F14
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03-01-2015, 04:42 PM	#10
alpina-527 Private First Class 35 Rep 100 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: England iTrader: (1)	.04mm of clearance is a perfect fit. Nothing at all wrong there. My money would firmly be on the quality of the rep wheels. How many weights on the wheels? Does the tyre run true when you spin the wheel by hand? No amount of balancing will cure a lumpy tyre.
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03-03-2015, 11:50 AM	#13
ben@tirerack M3Post Supporting Vendor 87 Rep 964 Posts Drives: 740i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Bend, IN iTrader: (0)	The clearance definitely sounds too tight for a ring to be a viable solution. Nothing that thin is going to have any durability unless it's made of some exotic materials. Here's another idea: Maybe the wheels are designed to be hubcentric, but are just slightly imperfect in the machining of the centerbore. The M3 is very sensitive to that type of thing, so it wouldn't have to be much. You might try treating them like wheels that are lug-centric. Torque them down in the star pattern with the weight of the vehicle supported by the jackstands or lift (and something wedged under the wheel to keep it from turning.) This will let the lugs pull the wheel centered. You may not get it perfect every time, but you may get it good-enough. __________________ _______________________________________________ I have accepted a new position at Tire Rack and am no longer in the sales department. gary@tirerack.com is available to assist with M3 questions.
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03-13-2015, 10:41 PM	#14
trbo94 Registered 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: E92 m3 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: st.charles IL iTrader: (0)	NickL630.. Wheel/tires were my living from 2005-2012 (just some background so that my answer can have come weight to it) Look inside your wheels lug holes. And feel inside as well. There are 2 different types of seating for the lugs/bolts for wheels. ball and conical. Ball is just as it sounds it would be like a ball or circle so the degree of taper would change just like a circle. The other is conical so the taper of the seat for the lug/bolts would be a constant (most common is 60 degree) Your wheels being 72.6 and not 72.56 is not the issue I promise that. In the USA to sell a aftermarket wheel the wheel has to be DOT approved. And DOT standards for the US require the wheel to be load rated off the lugs/bots and not the hub. So aftermarket wheels have to fit correctly off the lugs/bots and not need the hub at all in short. So I think you might have ball seat wheels and be using conical seat bolts. Or the reverse. If that is the case hub rings could stop the vibration but then the bolts that hold all the weight would not be seated correctly. Or I have seen (to many times for my liking) over spray in the lug holes. You could have some degree or paint in the lug/bolt holes that is not letting your bolts center the wheels. Just some thoughts but from my experience I think it is one of those. Hope it helps.
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