Subaru BRZ - Light RWD 6MT

[ajvee]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e_first_drive/

Sounds like this might make for a great track car!

[Erhan]

This and Toyota FT86.. This is the more powerful one. I've been following this car. It is promising that some companies make lightweight (literally) cars.

[ajvee]

Originally Posted by erhanh

This and Toyota FT86.. This is the more powerful one. I've been following this car. It is promising that some companies make lightweight (literally) cars.

Hey do you happen to know any other good links about the cars?

[Zba]

Check out http://www.ft86club.com/
They have all the info you could ever want on these babies!

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by ajvee

Hey do you happen to know any other good links about the cars?

Check jalopnik. Also:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2119

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096

[stefan]

From what I've been reading of test drives at the track, the chassis is fairly incompetent. I can understand a lack of power.. 200hp is more than enough for the weight. But to have so much body roll and the lack of communication is troublesome. Are we going to have to put sway bars and larger tires on right away? Sounds like it.

Either way, it is a step in the right direction. I'm really interested to see where this goes. We all should be.. since we are all always complaining about weight, referencing the E30, etc. This is pretty close to that concept.

What I find most impressive is that a BBK, sways, sport suspension, and forged wheels are factory options.

[Erhan]

If the chassis is not good, bigger tire will make things worse. Hope they get this car right, because it is a very promising car.

[Mookster]

What HP will the Toyota version have?

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Skullbussa

Where did you read this? This is disappointing.

Why do car companies keep missing the mark? People who buy sport cars do not want uncommunicative steering and body roll. Is it that hard for them to figure out?

Read it in Car UK. But that's exactly my point. They've hit the nail on the head that power isn't everything, and "lightness" is key. But the reviewer found body roll and understeer. Like you said... why is this? It isn't particularly costly to set the car up with less roll and more neutral to oversteering characteristic. Seems like typical Toyota crap to me, concerning comfort and safety.

At least you will have the option to add factory sways, BBK, and such. In a low-power setup, neutral and competent chassis is KEY.

Anyway here's the link:http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...2-CAR-review-/

Here's a quote:

Originally Posted by Carmagazine.co.uk

However, at higher speeds I found the balance less pleasing. In fast third-gear turns, for instance, the front end feels too soft and errs towards understeer – it could be pointier, firmer and more positive. Under provocation, the rear then comes around, but the FT-86 is so short that this transition can be very quick. Two factors then come into play: the first is the Torsen diff, which is more refined in day-to-day driving, but less precise than a mechanical differential when the rear tyres are struggling for purchase, so the level of control you have over the sliding rear end is compromised; the second point is the lack of power: adding power during slides helps you to bring things back under control, but in a high-speed FT-86 you’re more in the hands of momentum than you are able to dictate things with the throttle.

edit: more info: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2070
More a Subaru product than a Toyota product. $28K USD though too.. Ouch. Doesn't sound that hot though. Not for nearly $30K.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Mookster

What HP will the Toyota version have?

Low 200s.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by stefan

Read it in Car UK. But that's exactly my point. They've hit the nail on the head that power isn't everything, and "lightness" is key. But the reviewer found body roll and understeer. Like you said... why is this? It isn't particularly costly to set the car up with less roll and more neutral to oversteering characteristic. Seems like typical Toyota crap to me, concerning comfort and safety.

It is an overall good and positive review. They only say the problem is at high speeds, and this is a pre-production car. So maybe these will be addressed? I'm still hopeful of this car. 7500rpm redline doesn't sound bad too btw.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by erhanh

It is an overall good and positive review. They only say the problem is at high speeds, and this is a pre-production car. So maybe these will be addressed? I'm still hopeful of this car. 7500rpm redline doesn't sound bad too btw.

True that. I am going to still follow this thing's development like crazy because I am seriously considering it.. though $30K is too much. So is 2900lb for that matter.

7500rpm is nice.. but if you've ever driven a Subaru you'll know that the boxer falls flat on its face after its peak hp. So really, after 6500rpm you'll literally feel it die on you. But certainly is a step in the right direction. Specs from the article:

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by stefan

True that. I am going to still follow this thing's development like crazy because I am seriously considering it.. though $30K is too much. So is 2900lb for that matter.

7500rpm is nice.. but if you've ever driven a Subaru you'll know that the boxer falls flat on its face after its peak hp. So really, after 6500rpm you'll literally feel it die on you. But certainly is a step in the right direction. Specs from the article:

Weight is a disappointment because earlier it was told to be 2600lbs. At 2900lbs, I have no interest really. Maybe the Toyota version is 2600lbs?

I also remember reading close to 300bhp for Subaru version..

2600lbs, LSD, ~300bph for 30k$ is a good deal.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by erhanh

Weight is a disappointment because earlier it was told to be 2600lbs. At 2900lbs, I have no interest really. Maybe the Toyota version is 2600lbs?

I also remember reading close to 300bhp for Subaru version..

2600lbs, LSD, ~300bph for 30k$ is a good deal.

Agreed. Unfortunately the two cars are going to be identical. Hell if they drop a turbo onto that engine I might just be in (with that boxer and the WRX turbo, should be ~260hp which would be nice, but Masuda has gone on-record stating "if you want horespower, buy an STi"). FWIW it is supposed to have a Torsen diff.. which.. meh.. its not bad at least!

Key points from the C&D article.
- 210hp@6500rpm and 170lb.ft at 4000rpm
- 7500rpm redline
- 0-60mph: 6.0sec, 1/4 mile 14.8 sec
- Torsen-type rear diff
- 2900lb
- $28,000 USD
- Scion and Subaru version will look completely identical save for badge
- Subaru did 90% of the development
- 2+2 coupe, no hatchback
- Aluminum hood,. block, heads. Steel everything else
- Starts production in May 2012

[Erhan]

There is some more info at Jalopnik:

The FR-S/FT-86 has a lower center of gravity than the Porsche Cayman, Nissan GT-R and Mitsubishi Lancer Evo. The F/R weight distribution is 53/47 and the cD of 0.27 is better than a Honda CR-Z and almost as good as a Toyota Prius.

And:

The most anticipated statistic is weight, and this manual lists it as 1210kg (2662 pounds) for the base manual and 2706 pounds for the higher spec manual. An automatic adds 20kg in either trim level. Horsepower is listed as 147kw (200ps) / 200hp @7000rpm and torque as 205nm (151 lb/ft) @ 6600rpm.

[Nine]

Price is too high, should be in the 22k range, let the young tuner generation access it.

[esqu1re]

Agree that price is a couple of grand on the high side. Regarding body roll, they might figure that a majority are going to want a softer, more compliant ride, and those who want to track the car will likely replace the factory suspension anyway, regardless of how taut the factory spec is. Kind of reminds me of the 2003 civic si coming out with 15 inch rims--- people were going to replace with 17 or 18s anyway, so why make the cost go up by offering factory 16s.

That said...I have high hopes for this car. I hope it can be as much of a cheap fun car as the miata.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by esqu1re

Agree that price is a couple of grand on the high side. Regarding body roll, they might figure that a majority are going to want a softer, more compliant ride, and those who want to track the car will likely replace the factory suspension anyway, regardless of how taut the factory spec is. Kind of reminds me of the 2003 civic si coming out with 15 inch rims--- people were going to replace with 17 or 18s anyway, so why make the cost go up by offering factory 16s.

That said...I have high hopes for this car. I hope it can be as much of a cheap fun car as the miata.

Agreed on all points. Especially the last... without the "stigma" the Miata carries

[Z K]

The Miata sells for $26K or so... if they can get it down to that kind of price, it's not a bad deal. A slightly faster car with the same kind of appeal.. but not convertible.

But you have the 330hp 370Z coming in at $32K and the 306hp (soon to be 330hp) Genesis V6 R-spec coupe at an amazing $27K, that's some stiff competition to throw this car in at the same price points!

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Z K

The Miata sells for $26K or so... if they can get it down to that kind of price, it's not a bad deal. A slightly faster car with the same kind of appeal.. but not convertible.

But you have the 330hp 370Z coming in at $32K and the 306hp (soon to be 330hp) Genesis V6 R-spec coupe at an amazing $27K, that's some stiff competition to throw this car in at the same price points!

But the 370Z is 3200lbs (IIRC), where as this car is supposedly 2600lbs. That's a huge difference. That being said, the 370Z is a one nice car.

[ajvee]

DRIVEN!

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...6_first_drive/

[Vybz]

Motortrends review of the BRZ is filled with nothing but promise. I haven't read any direct reviews of the FT-86... but from what I've read on the BRZ the chassis issues, handling, and body roll previously mentioned for the FT-86 are not existent in the BRZ.

The additional thought of them adding an STI version is also promising for the future of the car. I'm disappointed though that it's Toyota equivalent doesn't meet the same standard at this point in time.