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      08-20-2018, 04:54 PM   #1
Raindoh
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Back to the drawing board, BBK?

So I've done a couple of track days this summer and brakes have been a major issue. Originally I was using a performance brake fluid but it boiled quite easy and the pedal went very mushy. I was using Hawk HPS brake pads and experienced pretty bad fade. So I upgraded to Castrol SRF fluid and the pedal feel was quite good and consistent so I was happy with that change. I changed the pads to Hawk Street/Race pads which are supposed to be right under their dedicated track pads. They however did not seem to perform well. My first 2-3 laps were fine but soon the pads were screeching and I was getting very bad shudder and the wheel would go crazy under hard braking. I brought the car in after lap 10 and the brakes were smoking. My question is did I find the limit of the pads or the rotors?

I'm looking at upgrading the whole brake package as I find this cars brakes don't match the weight. My options I'm considering are, the AK brembo caliper upgrade with stock rotors, the M5 caliper and rotor upgrade through ECS, or going for an actual BBK possibly Stoptech as almost 9000 dollars for a brembo kit for 4 corners seems too much for how much I track the car.

Any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
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      08-20-2018, 05:48 PM   #2
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I did the Slonik Brembo kit in front with a set of F80 front rotors and the braking is now excellent.

I also had a terrible first few experiences with the stock brakes. The shuddering is the rotors warping temporarily after they overheat.

You only need to replace the front brakes. The rears are big enough for whatever.
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      08-20-2018, 06:47 PM   #3
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Weakest link is the oem rotors, not the calipers. Consider that when looking at brake "upgrades" that don't replace the rotors. The rotors are responsible for getting rid of heat. The calipers job is to squeeze and keep the heat out.
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      08-20-2018, 07:55 PM   #4
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Would the M5 or M3/M4 ECS kit be enough to manage temps. For 3800 dollars for everything you need seems reasonable but want something that can hold up to track days.
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      08-21-2018, 09:25 AM   #5
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$3700 gets you a PFC kit. That's where my money would go
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      08-21-2018, 04:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raindoh View Post
Would the M5 or M3/M4 ECS kit be enough to manage temps. For 3800 dollars for everything you need seems reasonable but want something that can hold up to track days.
for not much more, you can get a serious setup where it is easy to swap pads, and stop messing around with bandaid solutions.

here is a gently used setup for sale on this forum that i'm not affiliated with. https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1323357
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      08-21-2018, 07:18 PM   #7
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I opted for the AK Motorsports setup and changed my fluid, lines and pads. I'm running the Hawk DTC 60 front and rear. I also changed my front rotor to Stoptech Aero rotors.

Overall performance has been exceptional. I can't comment on it in comparison to other setups, however I do have other friends who track with considerable more experience who loves the setup (They also track E9X M3's)

The downside is it is a bit of a Franken-kit

But considering the price, it worked for me.

If I was to do it again I would maybe consider the Slonik kit with F80 rotors. Price is a factor for me too.
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      08-22-2018, 11:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raindoh View Post
Would the M5 or M3/M4 ECS kit be enough to manage temps. For 3800 dollars for everything you need seems reasonable but want something that can hold up to track days.
for not much more, you can get a serious setup where it is easy to swap pads, and stop messing around with bandaid solutions.
I have the ECS M5 (Brembo)set-up on the front of my M3 and I find it to be awesome - bias & balance are good ... no heat issues! I also have a 255 PSS on the front as well. Rear brakes are stock.
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      08-22-2018, 01:57 PM   #9
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Why would you mess about with all these thrown together sets when you can buy a properly integrated solution for the same money? You can pickup a Stoptech ST-40 front kit for $2,400, or if you are willing to spend more get a PFC Z54 kit for $3,600.

If you want to stick with the stock brake setup as others have said, get the PFC DDv3 rotor and PFC pad kit from bimmerworld. Loads of people in the track forum have run this with great results, you then have a massively upgraded setup for $1200. If I was doing occasional track work this is what I would go for.
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      08-22-2018, 10:14 PM   #10
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http://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/Br...-Compound.html

This is what I plan to start with.
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      08-23-2018, 12:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raindoh View Post
Would the M5 or M3/M4 ECS kit be enough to manage temps. For 3800 dollars for everything you need seems reasonable but want something that can hold up to track days.
for not much more, you can get a serious setup where it is easy to swap pads, and stop messing around with bandaid solutions.
I have the ECS M5 (Brembo)set-up on the front of my M3 and I find it to be awesome - bias & balance are good ... no heat issues! I also have a 255 PSS on the front as well. Rear brakes are stock.
That's Andrew's old car. Enjoy!
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      08-23-2018, 12:35 AM   #12
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[/quote]
That's Andrew's old car. Enjoy![/quote]

you bet ... awesome ride!
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      08-23-2018, 07:55 AM   #13
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Our Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL setup is the most advanced and capable setup available at any price. If you want to do it once and do it right the first time, it's the choice.

On these cars, the front brakes are the primary concern, and you'll be far better served going with the absolute best front solution you can afford vs. going with a mediocre solution at all four corners. Most people burn through several sets of front pads for every rear set they consume. A good front kit that is properly designed and integrated with the OEM rear will give you the best return on your money spent.

I'd recommend our CP9660/372mm kit if you're running standard 20-30 minute HPDE sessions. This system fits inside many 18" wheels. The Radi-CAL calipers are the current state-of-the-art in caliper technology, ultra lightweight, a million pad choices, and are stiffer and run cooler than anything else. The AP J Hook discs have 84 vanes, flow a ton of air, and reasonably priced to replace when you eventually crack them. We also hold a lot of inventory, so you don't have to worry about not being able to get them when you need them.

If you want a thicker pad, you can go with our CP9668/372mm kit that features a 25mm thick pad. Wheel fitment isn't as good with that one though.

You can see lots more on our brake kits in this thread:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=essex

We have tons of e92 M3s all over the world running our setup successfully. They've run the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, have won many races and time trials, and are essentially the same as what is being run on the TCR cars in Pirelli World Challenge. They will take any abuse you can throw at them and ask for more.

You can see some of them in action on our blog on all different types of cars: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog

StopTech is a budget choice, and doesn't have anywhere near the features of the AP equipment. The PFC setup is based around twenty year old caliper technology, and almost as expensive. Both of those kits will also weigh more than the AP Racing setup, and spares won't be as accessible and will cost at least as much.

Our systems are widely considered the final solution for most people. They come to us when they're tired of fooling around with their car and want something that they no longer have to think about.

If you have more questions, feel free to PM or email me.

Here are some pics of them on cars so you can see how they look:











Over the years the vast majority of factory-built BMW racecars come with AP Racing Radi-CALs as well, and that's at all levels of motorsport:









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      08-23-2018, 09:24 AM   #14
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If you have done a couple of track days I don't think you want or need a $5000 bbk. Especially one that isn't suitable for street driving( AP Racing) . PFC is 1000x better for this regard alone. You'll never need more braking power than that kit and it functions perfectly on the street. The rotor kit or the pfc z54 kit are your two best options in my opinion.
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      08-24-2018, 12:54 AM   #15
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[quote=nycplumber;23630090]If you have done a couple of track days I don't think you want or need a $5000 bbk. Especially one that isn't suitable for street driving( AP Racing).

why isn't ap racing suitable for the street?
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      08-24-2018, 12:56 PM   #16
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No dust boots
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      08-24-2018, 03:45 PM   #17
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for occasional track use the PFC DD v3 rotors (a rotor-only upgrade kit) paired with typical track pads is a massive upgrade vs stock

a front only BBK is also very nice but few people are fast enough to actually 'need' that vs the Direct Drive PFC option
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      08-25-2018, 06:22 AM   #18
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No dust boots
doesn't matter.
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      08-25-2018, 07:33 AM   #19
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I would think no dust boots would be a problem for cars that are driven. My car sees dirt, rain, snow, salt, etc.
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      08-25-2018, 07:51 AM   #20
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the seals are designed to handle the heat and pressure of being on a racing brake. they can handle a little mud, snow, and water. somehow this myth keeps getting perpetuated. i have never heard of anyone ruining their piston seals.
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      08-25-2018, 12:53 PM   #21
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I do need a solution that addresses the front and rear brakes. When I came in after my first session where I was driving (100% to me &#128527 the rear brakes had smoke pouring off them. So the rears definitely went past the limit as well. The rest of the day I had to coast into corners, felt like a waste.

The local track to me is notorious for being a brake killer. You have a main straight that you brake from 110-120MPH down to 25MPH which then leads onto a small straight from 80-90 down to 20-25 with more slow corners leading back onto the main straight so the brakes never get a break(no pun intended) or even a good spot to cool down on the track.

Would a st40 front and rear throw off the bias too much, could I find a st40 kit for the front that would have larger rotor for the front?

Last edited by Raindoh; 08-25-2018 at 01:07 PM.
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      08-25-2018, 02:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raindoh View Post
I do need a solution that addresses the front and rear brakes. When I came in after my first session where I was driving (100% to me ) the rear brakes had smoke pouring off them. So the rears definitely went past the limit as well. The rest of the day I had to coast into corners, felt like a waste.

The local track to me is notorious for being a brake killer. You have a main straight that you brake from 110-120MPH down to 25MPH which then leads onto a small straight from 80-90 down to 20-25 with more slow corners leading back onto the main straight so the brakes never get a break(no pun intended) or even a good spot to cool down on the track.

Would a st40 front and rear throw off the bias too much, could I find a st40 kit for the front that would have larger rotor for the front?
Have your tried a higher temp track pad? PFC11 or PFC08?
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