Can I afford an M3?

[LTJohn]

constructively speaking, I made a mistake when I was first a Dr.

One of my friends graduated at the same time, and he bought a used Prelude for $5K (2000 was the year we graduated). He moved into a townhouse and lived LEAN! He lived this way for 6-7 years.
I graduated with a similar income as you, and I bought an E46 M3 right out of school. I bought a house (my wife made similar money as me). Went on vacations and such (driving schools)

Ok, let's fast forward to today. i have owned a bunch of porsches and other nice things. I still live in the same house and now I live LEAN. I can't even see how I could afford to have kids....My student loans are still deep 6 figures.
My friend has a Beach-house, 2 sports cars, a fully paid-off business, Paid-off student loans and 3 kids. He lives a great life and spends a month on vacation each year.
Well, he did it right. he is not "lucky", nor do I resent him. I "lived for today" and now my life is harder.
My advice is to go LEAN for a few years, get a 2004 Boxster S, have fun, get moving in life.
BTW, disregard this whole post if you have a rich family. It does change things!

[Templar]

I think you've already decided, so looks like you're set. Save up some and you'll be fine. I'm single too, so bringing in the money I am every month I feel comfortable and have nice things. I have plenty of spending money every month, and can afford my monthly bills, insurance, rent, and everything else. I have a few expensive hobbies too (buying rifles and guns, modding my M3, the newest video games) and I am still living comfortably.

Also, selling your car currently (with the loan you have on it) could be a bad idea, especially at a dealership. Chances are they'll give you crap for trade in so they can turn over a huge profit, and you could go upside down on the loan. You'd have to wheel and deal them, they can be douches.

I've been doing some research because I was thinking about selling my second car and picking up a truck. I decided against it though, because it would be better for me to just pay down my debt. I don't have a lot (only owe a little on the other car) so it's not a big deal, but I am looking at a job change in the next few years, so it doesn't make sense to dig myself deeper now.

Bottom line, you really need to look as far out as the loan on the vehicle would take you. If you see things might change in 5-6 years, it might not be smart to have a massive amount of debt and no savings. Build up your savings, put it somewhere it can earn some interest and just let it sit there, or invest it wisely and let it grow. Once you have a base, you can look at where you have room to make for other things (like a M3).

Good luck!

[booch]

Originally Posted by Blu_Frg

Cliffnotes:
- 22-years-old; graduated this past May
- Fully employed, making good money: ~$70K
- After 401k contributions, health insurance, etc, my take home pay is ~$3200
- I rent for $900 a month, includes all utilities
- $14K in debt from financing an 04 330i zhp 6 speed (which I bought less than 3 months ago lol)
- I am confident that I can sell it back to someone for $15K or even $16K because I bought it for such a steal.
- Insurance costs me around $150 a month for the ZHP
- I fill up once a month, for around $60

So, assuming I sold off my ZHP, my monthly expenses are:

$3200 - $900 (rent) - $800 (food & entertainment) = $1,500 for a car payment, insurance, gas, and savings.

I really regret going to the dealership and test driving an M3 because now it's all I can think about. I'm addicted to the thought of owning one.

What are my options here? I'm thinking about doing the BMW Select Financing with a brand new car that's spec'ed to my liking.. or I can purchase a used one.. but I really do want the competition package. There was an AW 11 model at my dealer with 3K miles and the comp package for $65K.

In the truest sense of the word, no, I cannot 'afford' this car because I cannot pay cash for it. But I can 'afford' to make payments. Should I do it? I'm thinking that if I do do it, it'll be after winter.

I'm also toying with the idea of purchasing a condo next year. I want to take advantage of the buyer's market and historically-low mortgage rates, but at the same time, everyone in my family says I need to wait longer because the market is so uncertain. Further, one of my co-workers who purchased a house as rental income out of college says that, while she doesn't regret doing it, she would have waited a couple more years if she could do it again. So I'm not too committed to the idea of buying a condo until I'm say, maybe 25 or 26.

What do you guys think? Should I go for it?!

i'm not going to tell you whether or not to buy an m3, but i wanted to point out that you may want to think a bit more about your budget.

there are a lot of other costs that go into living independently, and they add up fast, trust me!

examples would be:

-clothes
-travel (e.g. holidays)
-transitions (e.g. extra few days of rent/mortgage for a move)
-gifts
-accidents (e.g. deductibles)
-medical care (e.g. out of pocket)
-hobbies

i'm a firm believer in spending your money where you want, but you may want to take a few months to better determine what your true discretionary income is.

take care.

[ClutchThese]

Originally Posted by username11

22 and making 70K and want to drive a 50-70K luxury sports car? What a joke. At this stage in life you shouldn't even have the fuckin' time to consider doing something so stupid.

Sorry dude, 70K is not good "good money." It's adequate because you're single, are currently employed, living in a rat infested hole in the wall with other dudes for $900/mo (location says Boston), have zero net worth, no long term savings, and have no significant investments.

You're not even making six figures! Lease a Kia Optima for $150/mo, save and INVEST (everything's on sale in this economy) the rest of your money, and when you're making real money once you've progressed in your career (or whatever) spend a small fraction of it on the toys.

Spending a significant portion of your take home pay on a car payment is one of the most stupid things you can do. How about doing the basic shit first? Max out your 401K (16.5K/yr), determine your investment strategy, setup and fund your after tax investment accounts, figure out cost of living for minimum six months and save this amount, work hard on getting to your next job so you can make at least 100K, etc.



Yes.

I did the above... i invested into Bernie Madoff's fund. See where that got me. It's always easy to tell others to invest....

Do what you feel is good for you.

Just remember, those who die with the most "stuff" Wins!!!

[Nine]

This is an interesting topic, looking back a 4-5 years ago, I was in your position and I went with the car, I wouldn't do the same today.

You really have to think about your priorities here, if you would like to have roomates and drive a really nice car, and you are ok with that then sure. But if you want to live alone, maybe in a nicer apt, or whatever...

Out of college, Vacations were something I missed out on. I couldn't fly to vegas and blow 5k in a weekend because of my car situation, or I couldn't spend a weekend in a nice hotel in NY.

You are young, there are going to be parties, football games, girls, ordering shots, buying clothing, accessories, nice dinners, cigars, ...just plain living. The M3 will always be there, at your age enjoy being social, spend the extra money on traveling to places like Italy, Germany, Japan, road trips in the USA, having fun and living life. A large car payment, or being upside down on your car will be an anchor to your life, think about your priorities.

If your life is all about cars, I mean all about cars...DO IT, your life is already molded around great sacrifices related to cars, so you'll make it, and you'll eventually make more money and afford it, it will always be a bit of a stretch in the beginning.

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

Blu Frg,

You can then afford a ring for your wife

There's about the worst investment on the planet. With this logic after 5yrs your statistically more likely to be ahead investing in the car over a ring for a wife.

Sorry, I think the money people waste on wedding jewelry for marriages that are statistically more likely to fail than succeed is insane. I don't get why men have caved to women's desires for big jewelry so they can show their friends they've landed a guy with money..

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by matthewk

There's about the worst investment on the planet. With this logic after 5yrs your statistically more likely to be ahead investing in the car over a ring for a wife.

Sorry, I think the money people waste on wedding jewelry for marriages that are statistically more likely to fail than succeed is insane. I don't get why men have caved to women's desires for big jewelry so they can show their friends they've landed a guy with money..

I think the smaller and simpler the better, we had only 2 guests ... I rented a Chev for my 1 week honeymoon in the local mountains and we just last month had our 50st wedding anniversary yes ... smaller is better in some instances anyway

[SamS]

I can't believe all you guys railing on the OP for making $70K (not bad money at all) and wanting a nice car! Sure, it's a bad idea, and he really can not afford it. But the guy is making decent money for 22 years old, and at this rate, a new M3 at age 30 could be a real possibility.

I give him props for graduating, getting a job, driving a cool 330i, and making a good living out of college. So what he set his sights a bit high. He'll get there, eventually.

[goto35]

finance a used m3 and go with penfed for financing kid.

[WRXXX]

Originally Posted by username11

22 and making 70K and want to drive a 50-70K luxury sports car? What a joke. At this stage in life you shouldn't even have the fuckin' time to consider doing something so stupid.

Sorry dude, 70K is not good "good money." It's adequate because you're single, are currently employed, living in a rat infested hole in the wall with other dudes for $900/mo (location says Boston), have zero net worth, no long term savings, and have no significant investments.

You're not even making six figures! Lease a Kia Optima for $150/mo, save and INVEST (everything's on sale in this economy) the rest of your money, and when you're making real money once you've progressed in your career (or whatever) spend a small fraction of it on the toys.

Spending a significant portion of your take home pay on a car payment is one of the most stupid things you can do. How about doing the basic shit first? Max out your 401K (16.5K/yr), determine your investment strategy, setup and fund your after tax investment accounts, figure out cost of living for minimum six months and save this amount, work hard on getting to your next job so you can make at least 100K, etc.



Yes.

Username11...A bit harsh don't u think? Chances are some one will make more then you so does that mean they get to dump on your face?

Anyways to the op...to put it nicely it is good that u are at least asking if u can afford it before taking the plunge irrationally. We all want to drive nice cars and live life to the fullest. That is why the economywent down the toilet due to high debts. Right now u just graduated from school. $70k is great for someone just out of school and in this economic climate. But u need to factor in the maintenance costs, building up equity, work a little longer to see if the job is stable ...etc before jumping into such a big purchase. Trust me, most of us have been thru this early in our lives. All I can say is good things come to those who wait. You are only 22. Plenty of time to get the car of your dreams down the road.

[Raptor251]

What if you die tomorrow? Dont you at least want to drive the e9x? Life is short, the key it to find the right balance between saving and fun!

[WRXXX]

What if u lost your job tomorrow and have no savings?

Honestly if u were to die tmw would it haunt u into being a ghost for eternity because u didn't get to own a M3? Its this whole "What if I die tmw? I should live for the moment and live it to the fullest because I deserve all the fine things in life just like the guy next door..." mentality that is killing our economy and sense of reality.

[mdosu]

personally, I would not do it yet. I would wait until you're in the $90k income range. It sounds like you're barely on the line of comfort level (rainy day issues)

Again, that's just me and my level of comfort with my finances. I was in a similar situation 2 years ago, old car worth about $13k, $700 in rent pro rated, post 401K and other savings. No debt. I did not feel comfortable picking up an M3 at 70k income.

I suggest getting a pre-owned one for around 46k if you MUST have one.

[stefan]

I would allot a maximum of 25% of your monthly income to your car. I have found this to be a "comfy" setting. You could probably do more but I wouldn't bother. I agree with the above poster.. $90K income is going to be a nice place to be.

Do you have a balloon financing option? That might work well for you particularly if you take really good care of your vehicles and don't drive much. A CPO'ed M3, balloon financed with low interest, might even be cheaper for you than an E46 M3 on a line of credit.

[matthewk]

IMHO the time of purchase price of your car should be no more than 1/3 your gross annual income. So ~$70k car, ~$210k income. Yes, you can manage to buy it with less income, but that's not really being able to afford it.

Stretching yourself like that, poses risk like everyone else has already mentioned, but it also doesn't let you really enjoy life too. How are you going to travel and experience the rest of the world? How are you going to be able to afford a love for art, wine, scotch, fine food, culture, etc... With your plan you're likely to wind up being a guy with a nice car and a lot of stories about how you spent your time at home...

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by W12x

One of my friend is leasing it because he don't want to deal with the headache of selling the car when he wants a new one.

This...

I lease. As far as I am concerned I'm renting the car. I want a new one every three years, the milage works for me and I will never own a car out of warranty...

It's simply a fixed expense in my budget that I am comfortable with. But, not very one sees it like this nor is it something that works for them.

[Erhan]

Don't do it. Save up some more. It is also better to move up on cars slowly rather than taking big jumps. Get used to you 330 (which is a very nice car and I'm considering to buy one to make track day car), then move to M3 or even something in between.

Also $60/month for gas seems like you're driving 300-400 miles a month. I would even ask why do you even have a car? I know owning a car is all nice, but maybe zip car or something like that works better for you?

[F82_SID]

Originally Posted by username11

22 and making 70K and want to drive a 50-70K luxury sports car? What a joke. At this stage in life you shouldn't even have the fuckin' time to consider doing something so stupid.

Sorry dude, 70K is not good "good money." It's adequate because you're single, are currently employed, living in a rat infested hole in the wall with other dudes for $900/mo (location says Boston), have zero net worth, no long term savings, and have no significant investments.

You're not even making six figures! Lease a Kia Optima for $150/mo, save and INVEST (everything's on sale in this economy) the rest of your money, and when you're making real money once you've progressed in your career (or whatever) spend a small fraction of it on the toys.

Spending a significant portion of your take home pay on a car payment is one of the most stupid things you can do. How about doing the basic shit first? Max out your 401K (16.5K/yr), determine your investment strategy, setup and fund your after tax investment accounts, figure out cost of living for minimum six months and save this amount, work hard on getting to your next job so you can make at least 100K, etc.

Yes.

CHILL THE F OUT! I bet most people on here dont make >100k. I am all about saving and investing for the future but honestly, at 22 the OP is doing very good for himself. Most people dont get to the 70k range until their mid to late 20s (if that). I know plenty of people in their 40s who would love to be making 70k.... You are acting as if this guy is trying to retire in the next 5 years. I am pretty sure he is not. As long as he has a 401k or some type of investments even started then I dont see anything wrong with choosing to spend a good chunk of his disposable income on a car. Yes its not necessarily doing the "smart" thing but buying a car never is. At 22 if he wants to reward himself for the acomplishments that he has made at his young age then I say go for it! I agree though that the OPs math might be a little bit on the low side (60 for gas a month ) but as long he can pay all his bills and not have to eat rammen to afford the car then I am behind him.

I will say this though, OP you might want to go for a lease or select financing on something used instead. A new M3 might be out of your price range as hard as that is to hear. I know when I was making 60-70k I bought a new 335 for 45k (payments of 640). I always knew that I wanted the M3 and the 335 was just a stepping stone to get to it. I told myself that once I made 100k a year then I would get my M3 and that is exactly what I did

[CMW33]

I'd go with an E46 M3. It's not hard to find a very nice example for $25-27k. Plus, because it's used, it won't depreciate too much more. It's tough living with "the itch", but people are right when they say to save more, be patient and let your income catch up. At least with the E46, you'll have a beautiful, fairly affordable ride that will tide you over for a while. Who knows? You might even forget about the E92 for a bit...

[Eau Rouge]

@ OP: There is a lot of good, sound financial advice in this thread (e.g. DocJohn). Use it for your own benefit.

For what it's worth, if in your shoes, my first order of business would be to "stop the bleeding" (i.e. get out of the rent situation) in favor of buying a house. We're in the midst of the Mother of All Home Buyer's markets which means sweet deals abound. Find one, buy it to keep that rent money from becoming someone else's cash.

There's no disgrace in being 22 driving something other than a car that costs a year's worth of salary. Good things come to those that make wise choices in life. You're at a crossroads. Choose wisely.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

I think the fault is primarily due to the banks and investment institutions ... lending money to people that really cannot afford some of the things they purchased / acquired like houses, condos and cars etc ... just look around you what you can get today (more so a few years back) with no money down ... it's ridiculous ... I feel sorry for the people that simply fall for this

Really? Blame the banks? Seriously, are people so retarded they need someone else to tell them 10-15 is not 0? If you need a bank to tell you that your take home pay is right at what your bills are that you shouldn't buy, then you deserve to be bankrupt. PERIOD.


Hate the "its always someone else's fault" attitude of this country, and world. Sorry Dieter, not trying to attack you just frustrated by the lack of accountability.

Cheers,
e46e92

[Rekrul]

Originally Posted by Blu_Frg

Cliffnotes:
- 22-years-old; graduated this past May
- Fully employed, making good money: ~$70K
- After 401k contributions, health insurance, etc, my take home pay is ~$3200
- I rent for $900 a month, includes all utilities
- $14K in debt from financing an 04 330i zhp 6 speed (which I bought less than 3 months ago lol)
- I am confident that I can sell it back to someone for $15K or even $16K because I bought it for such a steal.
- Insurance costs me around $150 a month for the ZHP
- I fill up once a month, for around $60

So, assuming I sold off my ZHP, my monthly expenses are:

$3200 - $900 (rent) - $800 (food & entertainment) = $1,500 for a car payment, insurance, gas, and savings.

I really regret going to the dealership and test driving an M3 because now it's all I can think about. I'm addicted to the thought of owning one.

What are my options here? I'm thinking about doing the BMW Select Financing with a brand new car that's spec'ed to my liking.. or I can purchase a used one.. but I really do want the competition package. There was an AW 11 model at my dealer with 3K miles and the comp package for $65K.

In the truest sense of the word, no, I cannot 'afford' this car because I cannot pay cash for it. But I can 'afford' to make payments. Should I do it? I'm thinking that if I do do it, it'll be after winter.

I'm also toying with the idea of purchasing a condo next year. I want to take advantage of the buyer's market and historically-low mortgage rates, but at the same time, everyone in my family says I need to wait longer because the market is so uncertain. Further, one of my co-workers who purchased a house as rental income out of college says that, while she doesn't regret doing it, she would have waited a couple more years if she could do it again. So I'm not too committed to the idea of buying a condo until I'm say, maybe 25 or 26.

What do you guys think? Should I go for it?!

Buy a CPO 08/09. I would think that's a more sound buy, and if you need to sell it you wont lose nearly as much deprecation wise.