Metal VANOS Cover Failure - MUST READ!

nah dude · 08-05-2023, 12:54 AM

nevermind

rcracin · 08-05-2023, 06:17 AM

If anyone is going the cover plate route from Carbahn or similar, in addition to timing, I believe the bolts are one time use so be mindful of that.

Soden82 · 08-05-2023, 07:32 AM

I’d be curious what a reputable shop would charge to re-time the engine after installing the Carbahn plates compared to the cost of the Slon covers (if the Slon covers need to be continually checked and ultimately fail down the road).

EnVe46 · 08-05-2023, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soden82

I’d be curious what a reputable shop would charge to re-time the engine after installing the Carbahn plates compared to the cost of the Slon covers (if the Slon covers need to be continually checked and ultimately fail down the road).

Maybe I’ve been out of the E9x M3 game for too long but I can’t imagine this being terribly expensive. Figure double the cost of an E46 M3? To me, Carbahn option seems the best way to limit potential failure, that’s not to say Slon or any legit option isn’t good. To me, I’d rather spend a little now to prevent a complete rebuild unnecessarily

exVtekGuy · 08-05-2023, 09:57 AM

Just FYI, MPorium has a nice looking solution as well.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937182

Decisions decisions...

Honestly, I only blame BMW for poor design.

Ajolives · 08-05-2023, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drwankel

I was able to get a flat head screwdriver in there and was able to push pry the clip back into position.

It is entirely possible this is a natural failure, or its also possible that the thing was installed wrong from the start, and just wore down the tab.

Anyway, at this point I guess I need to stop driving the car, and look at changing to a washer style solution. My piggy bank is not going to be happy...

FWIW I did find a loose clip on mine like two months after install and did the same thing you did with the flat head. I’m going to be checking after every drive again to make sure mine are all intact. Could very well be an install thing - at least that’s what I told myself

drwankel · 08-05-2023, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajolives

FWIW I did find a loose clip on mine like two months after install and did the same thing you did with the flat head. I’m going to be checking after every drive again to make sure mine are all intact. Could very well be an install thing - at least that’s what I told myself

To be clear, yours are SLON, correct? Keep us posted!

Ajolives · 08-05-2023, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drwankel

To be clear, yours are SLON, correct? Keep us posted!

Yea I’ve got one of the first SLON sets that were available when this topic originally blew up. Installed mine around the same time, 11/2021

Johnny E92 · 08-05-2023, 10:57 AM

Firstly, I will state I not flaming any manufacturer etc, but is there any feedback on the Evolve vanos covers and any issues, not saying they are good or bad, just no mention of them.

The reason I ask is my M3 has just clicked over 150,000km and I was planned on getting the vanos covers done as well as the throttle actuators as ‘preventative maintenance’ during the next service.

Thanks, great info on this forum.

Move Over · 08-05-2023, 11:11 AM

Wanted to quickly chime in here. I have two personal sets of Slon covers since early 2020 and one other set in my neighborhood (which I installed early 2021). One set of these covers has nearly 11,000 track only miles, the other has roughly ~5000 street miles and a couple of track days on it.

After following this topic both on FB and on here, I wanted to do a full inspection of my own covers to ease the mind of myself others with Slon covers. I cannot speak to any other brand, failing or not. I know there has been much tension around the variances of these covers, and yes there is room for all vendors to make what they need to make. There are other solutions in both a snap in style and bolt on style. Explore all your options!

I pulled both sets of valve covers on my personal cars and happy to report that all 24 clips on both engines were fully seated. I had my neighbor come over this morning, and I checked his passenger side clips through the oil fill. We bumped his starter couple of times to check all clips on the passenger side, and all were still clipped in. He has 8K miles on his covers.

Now, the caveat here is that since I was the one who personally installed these, I absolutely can say for certain that all 24 clips were installed properly on both engines (and any engine that I touch). I spin the crank bolt so each clip is visible to the eye, I do not guess. So I am 100% certain that all of mine were fully clipped in from the beginning. I missed one clip on each bank of my original install before spinning the crank. Again, they are easy to miss.

I will be the first to admit that when you are installing these, the clips are VERY easy to miss if you do not visibly see each one. I tell every person who asks for tips to please rotate the engine manually using the crank bolt on the crankshaft pulley to visibly see all clips. Whether this is being done during the time of install is up to them. Unless we are all checking that every single clip is visibly secured at the time of install, I'm not sure we can say the covers are failing, or if they were not fully seated from the beginning. This is something that should be standard practice for any DIYer, or shop that is installing these, IMO. You never really know what is being done at the shop.

While anything is possible, these covers are very tight and secure when installed properly, but it has to be just that, installed properly, double and triple checked. I really do not see how it would be possible for a clip to just jump off or fail. I've poked around under the oil cap a couple of times after a track session (engine still 200+), and these covers stay tight. My .02c.

kolosy · 08-05-2023, 01:02 PM

anybody have the dimensions of one of these covers by any chance? specifically looking for the volume of of one of those clips and diameter of the whole thing. i was curious what kind of centripetal load it sees at redline, and plugging in a 7cm radius for the cap (totally made that up from a memory of what it looked like), it's experiencing a good amount of centripetal force at 8400 rpm. since they're individual clips and not a contiguous piece like the stock one, I wonder if it's possible for the teeth to experience enough centripetal force to deform a little and slip off...

and agreed -- it's real easy to miss a clip when installing. i installed a SLON set when i did my e92 and remembered going around with a mirror and continuing to find clips that I had missed.

shimmy23 · 08-05-2023, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exVtekGuy

Just FYI, MPorium has a nice looking solution as well.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937182

Decisions decisions...

Honestly, I only blame BMW for poor design.

this is the route i would take. i personally was never a fan of any of the snap on solutions

Ajolives · 08-05-2023, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy23

this is the route i would take. i personally was never a fan of any of the snap on solutions

Group buy time.

Tommysalami · 08-05-2023, 03:03 PM

sooooo what's the brand that failed in the initial post? this thread is pointless if the brand isn't named

Ervin87 · 08-05-2023, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

sooooo what's the brand that failed in the initial post? this thread is pointless if the brand isn't named

This is all speculation. To say a specific brand failed is not possible, as this could easily have been installation error.

Move Over · 08-05-2023, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

sooooo what's the brand that failed in the initial post? this thread is pointless if the brand isn't named

To my knowledge there has been 1 set of slon covers shipped into Malaysia - and that was redds. So, the failure does not look like a slon failure. The others look like they may have been install error. I looked at all my shipping history and I have sent 0 to Malaysia.

In the original Facebook post, they said the cover vanished into a thin dust. I’m not sure I buy that. Raw Aluminum doesn’t just grind up and show up in an oil filter. Something smells funny here.

Redd · 08-05-2023, 06:32 PM

The Malaysia set that failed completely was a China set. It was that first incident that got everyone in a panic and everyone started to check their covers. That's when we saw all the loose clips.

Yes I also find it strange that there were no large pieces. Because when the first plastic vanos cover failed in the other Malaysia car, there were large chunks which blocked the oil intake pipe.

But the mech who installed all these covers also installed my Slon cover. He's probably the best S65 mech in the country and very well versed with engine. I saw the fine dust in the oil filter, and swarf in the affected engine. I also specifically asked him where are the big pieces and he said there were none. To this day I am not sure how that is possible.

Initially I did not rule out installation error. But if you see the YouTube video in my original post, that kind of looseness with the clip is not due to installer error. The cover could have been installed perfectly, but if the clip is loose it will pop off by itself. Fwiw, the cover in that video is a China set.

This thread was not about whose brand of cover is better/worse. It's asking owners to check their covers to make sure all the clips are tight.

Move Over · 08-05-2023, 07:04 PM

The case of the vanishing vanos caps! I don’t see how it’s possible but I guess we’ve seen crazier things. Maybe chinesium is really made from flour. Lol!

All jokes aside, appreciate you bringing this to the forefront. As I said in my original response, when we start to make copies of copies of copies, tolerances get lost and every fraction of a MM counts in a product like this. Not saying Slon is perfect but at least the “original” aftermarket solution and the hand measurements came from him. Gotta be worth something.

I’d encourage people not to freak out, but check to make sure your covers are clipped properly and cannot stress enough to install them properly. There are 1000’s of these covers out there now with 0 documented failures.

e92dud · 08-05-2023, 07:15 PM

I feel like resorting to bolt on covers is a little early without trying a different clip design. Why didn’t bmw make the oem ones bolt on? Is there a way we can can get a fool proof clip on design? Is it not possible to make the clips larger so they can’t back off? Or maybe exact replacements of the oem plastic ones?

PYE46M3 · 08-05-2023, 07:20 PM

What are these vanos covers made out of ? and how much do they expand and contract in extreme heat of the engine compared to the vanos itself? too many variables at play. Bolt on covers is the safest bet for a peace of mind.

JobanM · 08-06-2023, 09:50 AM

Well I checked my SLON covers as well and they appear to be fine. I didn't check all the clips though. I will keep an eye out from now on. I was also one of those early adapters when they were first released. My plastic cover was already missing a chunk. Like Move Over I did the install with the help of my buddies who are much more mechanically inclined than I am.

We also spun the motor by hand and verified each clip was indeed sitting correctly. I have done about 15 track days now, so fingers crossed.

rhyary · 08-06-2023, 03:33 PM

For what it is worth.
I bought a Slone set and was planning to install that last winter. But my engine blew and I got a rebuilt engine from Carbahn. So I don’t think I will be needing the Slone set as I don’t think Carbahn uses the OEM plastic.

If anyone interested in brand new Slone set, let me know.

08-05-2023, 12:54 AM	#45
nah dude Pingu 237 Rep 484 Posts Drives: White V8 Sedan Car Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: US iTrader: (1)	nevermind Last edited by nah dude; 08-05-2023 at 02:01 AM..
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08-05-2023, 06:17 AM	#46
rcracin Major 1243 Rep 1,288 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NYC iTrader: (3)	If anyone is going the cover plate route from Carbahn or similar, in addition to timing, I believe the bolts are one time use so be mindful of that.
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08-05-2023, 07:32 AM	#47
Soden82 Major 479 Rep 1,196 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Boston iTrader: (1) Garage List 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	I’d be curious what a reputable shop would charge to re-time the engine after installing the Carbahn plates compared to the cost of the Slon covers (if the Slon covers need to be continually checked and ultimately fail down the road). __________________ 2009 BMW 335i 6MT big single (eventually) For now... MHD tuned VRSF Race IC DCI ATM exhaust
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08-05-2023, 09:57 AM	#49
exVtekGuy Second Lieutenant 115 Rep 284 Posts Drives: none yet Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0)	Just FYI, MPorium has a nice looking solution as well. https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937182 Decisions decisions... Honestly, I only blame BMW for poor design.
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08-05-2023, 10:57 AM	#53
Johnny E92 Private 92 Rep 82 Posts Drives: BMW E92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Firstly, I will state I not flaming any manufacturer etc, but is there any feedback on the Evolve vanos covers and any issues, not saying they are good or bad, just no mention of them. The reason I ask is my M3 has just clicked over 150,000km and I was planned on getting the vanos covers done as well as the throttle actuators as ‘preventative maintenance’ during the next service. Thanks, great info on this forum.
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08-05-2023, 11:11 AM	#54
Move Over Colonel 1258 Rep 2,492 Posts Drives: M3 6MT Join Date: May 2015 Location: Peninsula iTrader: (9)	Wanted to quickly chime in here. I have two personal sets of Slon covers since early 2020 and one other set in my neighborhood (which I installed early 2021). One set of these covers has nearly 11,000 track only miles, the other has roughly ~5000 street miles and a couple of track days on it. After following this topic both on FB and on here, I wanted to do a full inspection of my own covers to ease the mind of myself others with Slon covers. I cannot speak to any other brand, failing or not. I know there has been much tension around the variances of these covers, and yes there is room for all vendors to make what they need to make. There are other solutions in both a snap in style and bolt on style. Explore all your options! I pulled both sets of valve covers on my personal cars and happy to report that all 24 clips on both engines were fully seated. I had my neighbor come over this morning, and I checked his passenger side clips through the oil fill. We bumped his starter couple of times to check all clips on the passenger side, and all were still clipped in. He has 8K miles on his covers. Now, the caveat here is that since I was the one who personally installed these, I absolutely can say for certain that all 24 clips were installed properly on both engines (and any engine that I touch). I spin the crank bolt so each clip is visible to the eye, I do not guess. So I am 100% certain that all of mine were fully clipped in from the beginning. I missed one clip on each bank of my original install before spinning the crank. Again, they are easy to miss. I will be the first to admit that when you are installing these, the clips are VERY easy to miss if you do not visibly see each one. I tell every person who asks for tips to please rotate the engine manually using the crank bolt on the crankshaft pulley to visibly see all clips. Whether this is being done during the time of install is up to them. Unless we are all checking that every single clip is visibly secured at the time of install, I'm not sure we can say the covers are failing, or if they were not fully seated from the beginning. This is something that should be standard practice for any DIYer, or shop that is installing these, IMO. You never really know what is being done at the shop. While anything is possible, these covers are very tight and secure when installed properly, but it has to be just that, installed properly, double and triple checked. I really do not see how it would be possible for a clip to just jump off or fail. I've poked around under the oil cap a couple of times after a track session (engine still 200+), and these covers stay tight. My .02c. __________________ 2010 E92 M3 DCT Last edited by Move Over; 08-05-2023 at 11:38 AM..
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08-05-2023, 01:02 PM	#55
kolosy Colonel 1491 Rep 2,021 Posts Drives: over potholes Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chicago iTrader: (2)	anybody have the dimensions of one of these covers by any chance? specifically looking for the volume of of one of those clips and diameter of the whole thing. i was curious what kind of centripetal load it sees at redline, and plugging in a 7cm radius for the cap (totally made that up from a memory of what it looked like), it's experiencing a good amount of centripetal force at 8400 rpm. since they're individual clips and not a contiguous piece like the stock one, I wonder if it's possible for the teeth to experience enough centripetal force to deform a little and slip off... and agreed -- it's real easy to miss a clip when installing. i installed a SLON set when i did my e92 and remembered going around with a mirror and continuing to find clips that I had missed. __________________ Current '21 DG X5MC, '22 X5M50i, '11 E90 M3 Recent Past '12 E92 M3 ZCP, '08 E93 M3, '18 F80 ZCP, '04 E46 M3 I think I have an M3 problem.
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08-05-2023, 03:03 PM	#58
Tommysalami Lieutenant 564 Rep 465 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	sooooo what's the brand that failed in the initial post? this thread is pointless if the brand isn't named
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08-05-2023, 06:32 PM	#61
Redd Brigadier General 3900 Rep 4,165 Posts Drives: 2010 BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Malaysia iTrader: (0)	The Malaysia set that failed completely was a China set. It was that first incident that got everyone in a panic and everyone started to check their covers. That's when we saw all the loose clips. Yes I also find it strange that there were no large pieces. Because when the first plastic vanos cover failed in the other Malaysia car, there were large chunks which blocked the oil intake pipe. But the mech who installed all these covers also installed my Slon cover. He's probably the best S65 mech in the country and very well versed with engine. I saw the fine dust in the oil filter, and swarf in the affected engine. I also specifically asked him where are the big pieces and he said there were none. To this day I am not sure how that is possible. Initially I did not rule out installation error. But if you see the YouTube video in my original post, that kind of looseness with the clip is not due to installer error. The cover could have been installed perfectly, but if the clip is loose it will pop off by itself. Fwiw, the cover in that video is a China set. This thread was not about whose brand of cover is better/worse. It's asking owners to check their covers to make sure all the clips are tight. Last edited by Redd; 08-05-2023 at 06:38 PM..
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08-05-2023, 07:04 PM	#62
Move Over Colonel 1258 Rep 2,492 Posts Drives: M3 6MT Join Date: May 2015 Location: Peninsula iTrader: (9)	The case of the vanishing vanos caps! I don’t see how it’s possible but I guess we’ve seen crazier things. Maybe chinesium is really made from flour. Lol! All jokes aside, appreciate you bringing this to the forefront. As I said in my original response, when we start to make copies of copies of copies, tolerances get lost and every fraction of a MM counts in a product like this. Not saying Slon is perfect but at least the “original” aftermarket solution and the hand measurements came from him. Gotta be worth something. I’d encourage people not to freak out, but check to make sure your covers are clipped properly and cannot stress enough to install them properly. There are 1000’s of these covers out there now with 0 documented failures. __________________ 2010 E92 M3 DCT
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08-05-2023, 07:15 PM	#63
e92dud Private 62 Rep 81 Posts Drives: e92 m3 Join Date: Mar 2023 Location: Chattanooga tn iTrader: (0)	I feel like resorting to bolt on covers is a little early without trying a different clip design. Why didn’t bmw make the oem ones bolt on? Is there a way we can can get a fool proof clip on design? Is it not possible to make the clips larger so they can’t back off? Or maybe exact replacements of the oem plastic ones?
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08-05-2023, 07:20 PM	#64
PYE46M3 Captain 855 Rep 659 Posts Drives: E46 M3, E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	What are these vanos covers made out of ? and how much do they expand and contract in extreme heat of the engine compared to the vanos itself? too many variables at play. Bolt on covers is the safest bet for a peace of mind.
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08-06-2023, 09:50 AM	#65
JobanM Enlisted Member 74 Rep 34 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: GTA iTrader: (0)	Well I checked my SLON covers as well and they appear to be fine. I didn't check all the clips though. I will keep an eye out from now on. I was also one of those early adapters when they were first released. My plastic cover was already missing a chunk. Like Move Over I did the install with the help of my buddies who are much more mechanically inclined than I am. We also spun the motor by hand and verified each clip was indeed sitting correctly. I have done about 15 track days now, so fingers crossed. __________________ Instagram: prius_m3
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08-06-2023, 03:33 PM	#66
rhyary Colonel 1563 Rep 2,869 Posts Drives: 2013 M3 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Albany, NY iTrader: (0)	For what it is worth. I bought a Slone set and was planning to install that last winter. But my engine blew and I got a rebuilt engine from Carbahn. So I don’t think I will be needing the Slone set as I don’t think Carbahn uses the OEM plastic. If anyone interested in brand new Slone set, let me know.
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