E92 M3 - Metallic clunk / grind on cold start (With 3 Videos + Image of Noise)

L4ces · 07-31-2014, 06:31 AM

I threw the old spark plugs away.
The sounds is exactly the same as yours. Sometimes it isn't as loud and harsh and I am not sure what factors into that.

I will go out this morning and pull them and put them back in before starting.

Key point is that I now have the exact sound as you. Other than they the car appears to run fine.

L4ces · 07-31-2014, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I would have thought that starting the car with one coil disconnected for a short time wouldn't do any harm at all...it would just run on 7 cylinders.

I thought the same. I want to believe that there is but in protection for such idiot errors.

L4ces · 07-31-2014, 06:51 AM

I did a search for "what happens if you run with one spark plug missing". From what I take for others experience is that it could be just fine and not guaranteed to result in engine damage. Hopefully that is my case.

bradleyland · 07-31-2014, 09:14 AM

Running one cylinder down isn't going to hurt anything. It'll run rough, but that's it.

You guys are way out of your depth here. I'm not trying to be insulting, but engines are complex piece of mechanical engineering. They make a lot of sounds that might seem related to the layman, but are actually something very different.

If you post a video of your car on startup (with the noise), I can help you determine if your problem is the same as the OP.

anom3 · 07-31-2014, 10:22 AM

just fyi:

i'm 100% taking your advice regarding not really going further until i get someone who is a true professional to diagnose the issue.

i have found someone about 100km away who specializes in bmw vanos systems. so thats the next step for me. quite a few posts regarding this being vanos related so thats the direction i've decided to go.

its in polish (i'm currently located in poland) so none of it will probably mean anything to you, but this is where i'll be taking it:

http://www.klinika-bmw.pl/

they are bmw certified for what its worth.

and have also done work on the e92 m3 specifically in the past which is a plus (our cars are not all that common especially here, so your typical bmw shop usually hasnt laid hands on one) http://www.klinika-bmw.pl/e92-m2/#more-1718.

like i said, they are 100km+ from me, so unfortunately... this will at minimum involve me going there at about 5am (1+ hour commute) parking the car at their shop, having a rest in the city where they are located, returning at about 3-4pm, and HOPEFULLY have the noise happen. will of course go in full detail with what was done so far (and hasn't worked) as well as playing back the audio samples etc etc etc.

cant speak for anyone else here, but i'm not finding you to be insulting at all. good to have a little bit of realistic push back

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Running one cylinder down isn't going to hurt anything. It'll run rough, but that's it.

You guys are way out of your depth here. I'm not trying to be insulting, but engines are complex piece of mechanical engineering. They make a lot of sounds that might seem related to the layman, but are actually something very different.

If you post a video of your car on startup (with the noise), I can help you determine if your problem is the same as the OP.

L4ces · 07-31-2014, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Running one cylinder down isn't going to hurt anything. It'll run rough, but that's it.

You guys are way out of your depth here. I'm not trying to be insulting, but engines are complex piece of mechanical engineering. They make a lot of sounds that might seem related to the layman, but are actually something very different.

If you post a video of your car on startup (with the noise), I can help you determine if your problem is the same as the OP.

I am certain it is the same. In the video I am posting, the sound is more faint because the phone is near the engine bay. Had I recorded from within the cabin the noise in question would be more distinct. It goes without saying that one has to listen carefully to pick it up.

anom3 · 07-31-2014, 11:10 AM

what i can say for sure is the timing is the same.

start button -> starter spin -> ignition -> 0.5-1 sec or so -> clunk!

same sequence in my case. the noise happens about 0.5-1 sec AFTER the engine starts.

and as far as the sound it self, pretty much spot on with what i hear. sometimes worst, sometimes better, usually the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L4ces

I am certain it is the same. In the video I am posting, the sound is more faint because the phone is near the engine bay. Had I recorded from within the cabin the noise in question would be more distinct. It goes without saying that one has to listen carefully to pick it up.

///M Power-Belgium · 07-31-2014, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L4ces

I am certain it is the same. In the video I am posting, the sound is more faint because the phone is near the engine bay. Had I recorded from within the cabin the noise in question would be more distinct. It goes without saying that one has to listen carefully to pick it up.

Yes , i'm 100 % sure ! That's the clunk noise , and exactly the same clunk noise that we have !

bradleyland · 07-31-2014, 04:07 PM

Yeah, that sounds like anom3's videos. It's actually a rapid series of taps, not a single clank.

L4ces · 07-31-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yes , i'm 100 % sure ! That's the clunk noise , and exactly the same clunk noise that we have !

I am happy to be among the elite.

///M Power-Belgium · 07-31-2014, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L4ces

I am happy to be among the elite.

Don't believe you !

I hate it...you hate it... and everyone hates the damn clunk noise !
BTW...i know someone with a 6 months old engine and has the clunk noise too,and i can tell you...he hates it even more than we do !

Minator · 08-01-2014, 09:56 AM

brake procedure seems to work for me...This car has 5k on the clock and made the chain/lifter noise and the single clack noise since new..I was amazed since my '09 did the same thing.

Maybe pumping the brakes does something in the startup procedure...takes the slack out of vanos chain?

All I know is it seems to work as crazy as it sounds!

Hopefully someone figures it out.....it just a PIA!

///M Power-Belgium · 08-01-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minator

brake procedure seems to work for me...This car has 5k on the clock and made the chain/lifter noise and the single clack noise since new..I was amazed since my '09 did the same thing.

Maybe pumping the brakes does something in the startup procedure...takes the slack out of vanos chain?

All I know is it seems to work as crazy as it sounds!

Hopefully someone figures it out.....it just a PIA!

Exactly !
I said it more than ones..The brake procedure works for DCT cars !
I said it also at my BMW/Dealer and they looked me in a very strange way

Jab555 · 08-02-2014, 03:08 PM

I've been reading this thread the past few days just out of curiosity. Then today my car did it on start up. This is the first time I have ever heard this on my car. I bought it roughly 2 months ago. The only thing I've done since then is add an extra quart of 10w60 oil (this was over a month ago). Other than that, no changes. The car was sitting for roughly 14 hours and it did this. I drove to the store and when I was done I started it back up with no noise (car was almost warmed up). I have a 2008 6mt with 56k miles.

anom3 · 08-02-2014, 04:08 PM

as you probably know from reading this thread, it happens only when the car is cold started and only once.

curious if you will hear it next time it has been sitting for 12+ hours.

mine is a 2008 (north american 2008 that is, 2007.07 production, its sold as a 2007 here in europe) with slightly less miles then yours, 43k miles (69k KM).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jab555

I've been reading this thread the past few days just out of curiosity. Then today my car did it on start up. This is the first time I have ever heard this on my car. I bought it roughly 2 months ago. The only thing I've done since then is add an extra quart of 10w60 oil (this was over a month ago). Other than that, no changes. The car was sitting for roughly 14 hours and it did this. I drove to the store and when I was done I started it back up with no noise (car was almost warmed up). I have a 2008 6mt with 56k miles.

anom3 · 08-02-2014, 04:13 PM

ugh i wish bmw would just release a bulletin or something regarding how to fix this. i dont mind spending the dough (out of my own pocket)... just bloody tell me what to fix for fucks sake.

this is clearly a wide spread issue that isnt normal, as some would argue... i mean... that would mean cars that DONT make this noise are not 'normal'... seriously?

///M Power-Belgium · 08-02-2014, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anom3

ugh i wish bmw would just release a bulletin or something regarding how to fix this. i dont mind spending the dough (out of my own pocket)... just bloody tell me what to fix for fucks sake.

this is clearly a wide spread issue that isnt normal, as some would argue... i mean... that would mean cars that DONT make this noise are not 'normal'... seriously?

Indeed !
My car was sitting 4 day's in my garage >brake procedure>no clunk noise !
But I know.... and will try next time to start the car without brake procedure..that i will hear the clunk noise again !
Conclusion....
Brake procedure works for DCT cars....why ? Beat me to dead ?!?! And i'm sure that even BMW don't know why !

Race_Doc11 · 08-02-2014, 07:36 PM

Is there a way to contact M division regarding this? I'm sure if it reaches the right people we will have an explanation and a fix. It looks like it is impossible to pass the dealer here in the US

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Indeed !
My car was sitting 4 day's in my garage >brake procedure>no clunk noise !
But I know.... and will try next time to start the car without brake procedure..that i will hear the clunk noise again !
Conclusion....
Brake procedure works for DCT cars....why ? Beat me to dead ?!?! And i'm sure that even BMW don't know why !

anom3 · 08-03-2014, 03:39 AM

i have googled extensively...

any online communication points towards dealerships / "find a dealer nearest you"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by racedoc11

Is there a way to contact M division regarding this? I'm sure if it reaches the right people we will have an explanation and a fix. It looks like it is impossible to pass the dealer here in the US

s85e90 · 08-03-2014, 09:28 AM

Jesus. Still going. Why does this happen cold? Okay:

1. When cold the oil drains from the heads into the pan causing the car to almost have a second of a somewhat dry start.

Ever change your own oil? As soon as you start the car the car will knock for a second while it builds oil pressure. This is very similar although it does sound more like a starter knock not pulling back right away. In any event I hear it on most cold m3. Again I wouldn't worry, as I have had my m3s for about 3+ years, but I am curious as to your findings; or better yet how much money people will spend chasing a minor issue.

SenorFunkyPants · 08-03-2014, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s85e90

Jesus. Still going. Why does this happen cold? Okay:

1. When cold the oil drains from the heads into the pan causing the car to almost have a second of a somewhat dry start.

Ever change your own oil? As soon as you start the car the car will knock for a second while it builds oil pressure. This is very similar although it does sound more like a starter knock not pulling back right away. In any event I hear it on most cold m3.

Hmmm except it doesn't account for why the engine starts quiet waits a second or two then makes the noise.
It "could" be a function of oil pressure, as it could equally be a function of engine temperature.

Jab555 · 08-03-2014, 04:36 PM

I started up my car again this morning after sitting for 12+ hours and there was no noise. Weird.

So basically nothing changed between yesterday when it made a noise and today when it did not make a noise. (I am positive this was the same noise that I've seen in all the videos of this thread ~.5 seconds after start up)

07-31-2014, 06:31 AM	#287
L4ces Major 337 Rep 1,489 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Alpine White Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NJ - NY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00]	I threw the old spark plugs away. The sounds is exactly the same as yours. Sometimes it isn't as loud and harsh and I am not sure what factors into that. I will go out this morning and pull them and put them back in before starting. Key point is that I now have the exact sound as you. Other than they the car appears to run fine.
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07-31-2014, 06:51 AM	#289
L4ces Major 337 Rep 1,489 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Alpine White Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NJ - NY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00]	I did a search for "what happens if you run with one spark plug missing". From what I take for others experience is that it could be just fine and not guaranteed to result in engine damage. Hopefully that is my case.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-31-2014, 09:14 AM	#290
bradleyland TIM YOYO 1504 Rep 3,283 Posts Drives: 2013 M3 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Vero Beach, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW R1250GS [0.00] 2013 BMW X3 xDrive28i [0.00]	Running one cylinder down isn't going to hurt anything. It'll run rough, but that's it. You guys are way out of your depth here. I'm not trying to be insulting, but engines are complex piece of mechanical engineering. They make a lot of sounds that might seem related to the layman, but are actually something very different. If you post a video of your car on startup (with the noise), I can help you determine if your problem is the same as the OP. __________________ His: *2019 R1250GS* - Black Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport**
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07-31-2014, 04:07 PM	#295
bradleyland TIM YOYO 1504 Rep 3,283 Posts Drives: 2013 M3 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Vero Beach, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW R1250GS [0.00] 2013 BMW X3 xDrive28i [0.00]	Yeah, that sounds like anom3's videos. It's actually a rapid series of taps, not a single clank. __________________ His: *2019 R1250GS* - Black Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport**
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08-01-2014, 09:56 AM	#298
Minator Whatever 10 Rep 149 Posts Drives: 2013 E92 M3 DCT '09 E92m3 sold Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Palm Harbor Florida iTrader: (0)	tap tap tap brake procedure seems to work for me...This car has 5k on the clock and made the chain/lifter noise and the single clack noise since new..I was amazed since my '09 did the same thing. Maybe pumping the brakes does something in the startup procedure...takes the slack out of vanos chain? All I know is it seems to work as crazy as it sounds! Hopefully someone figures it out.....it just a PIA!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-02-2014, 03:08 PM	#300
Jab555 Private 17 Rep 53 Posts Drives: Jerez Black Metallic E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Kirkland, WA iTrader: (1)	I've been reading this thread the past few days just out of curiosity. Then today my car did it on start up. This is the first time I have ever heard this on my car. I bought it roughly 2 months ago. The only thing I've done since then is add an extra quart of 10w60 oil (this was over a month ago). Other than that, no changes. The car was sitting for roughly 14 hours and it did this. I drove to the store and when I was done I started it back up with no noise (car was almost warmed up). I have a 2008 6mt with 56k miles.
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08-02-2014, 04:13 PM	#302
anom3 Captain 260 Rep 955 Posts Drives: F30 335ix Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Behind the wheel iTrader: (0)	ugh i wish bmw would just release a bulletin or something regarding how to fix this. i dont mind spending the dough (out of my own pocket)... just bloody tell me what to fix for fucks sake. this is clearly a wide spread issue that isnt normal, as some would argue... i mean... that would mean cars that DONT make this noise are not 'normal'... seriously?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2014, 09:28 AM	#306
s85e90 Brigadier General 192 Rep 3,633 Posts Drives: black e90 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: everywhere iTrader: (2)	Jesus. Still going. Why does this happen cold? Okay: 1. When cold the oil drains from the heads into the pan causing the car to almost have a second of a somewhat dry start. Ever change your own oil? As soon as you start the car the car will knock for a second while it builds oil pressure. This is very similar although it does sound more like a starter knock not pulling back right away. In any event I hear it on most cold m3. Again I wouldn't worry, as I have had my m3s for about 3+ years, but I am curious as to your findings; or better yet how much money people will spend chasing a minor issue.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-03-2014, 04:36 PM	#308
Jab555 Private 17 Rep 53 Posts Drives: Jerez Black Metallic E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Kirkland, WA iTrader: (1)	I started up my car again this morning after sitting for 12+ hours and there was no noise. Weird. So basically nothing changed between yesterday when it made a noise and today when it did not make a noise. (I am positive this was the same noise that I've seen in all the videos of this thread ~.5 seconds after start up)
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