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05-22-2013, 06:56 PM | #67 | |
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From the thread linked above by whats77inaname:
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05-22-2013, 07:01 PM | #68 | ||
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So do I think the price is a bit high? For an air-to-water intercooled kit coming right out of the market that could potentially compete with the likes of a vt-625 or vf620, it might be a little bit high, however I think consumers would pay that small premium ($1300 more than an ESS VT-625 kit sourced from EAS, or $500 less than a vf620 kit) to have this new, innovative kit with a twin-screw response and power delivery -- obviously pending quality of the kit, performance, and overall reliability.
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05-22-2013, 07:16 PM | #69 |
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The "anemic" torque is already fixed with the centrifugals. No, it doesn't feel like a big block motor or like it might with this roots/vane-type blower, but you aren't going to be able to use all that power anyway. Just ask any Stage 2 S/C M3 owner about the issues they are already experiencing putting the power to the ground.
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05-22-2013, 08:15 PM | #70 | |
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I dont wish to argue this over and over. Tq is Tq, and below 8k rpms, the S65 is lacking. Look at any other V8 with boost and its apparant that the M3 is lacking it, doesnt need to be a "big block" Compare a dyno like this to a centri. somehow, these cars seem to use that power.. I guess some people just prefer to have the most power all over, compared to peak RPM. Hence this is an option for them |
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05-23-2013, 07:58 PM | #72 | |
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05-23-2013, 08:52 PM | #73 | |
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The fact is that traction is already at it's limit with the centrifugals. If you think our M3's can handle an additional 100 RWTQ in the low to mid range without traction issues, then good luck to you but you have been warned.
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05-23-2013, 10:23 PM | #74 | |
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Secondly, Judging by the #1 vocalized shortcoming of the S65 owners, the response is lack of low end grunt. This solves that problem. Again, I would assume less than 10% of time in the M3 is above even 7K, let alone 83-8600 rpms, its going to be nice to have more power, earlier. |
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05-23-2013, 11:48 PM | #75 |
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I agree that opinions on the need for low end torque greatly differs across the board. However, traction is traction. Centrifugals lose it early and lose it often. The idea of a roots style blower is cool, but best of luck getting power to the pavement.
Personally, I don't mind downshifting to get my power on the NA s65. However, an ess-625 may be in my very near future...
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05-24-2013, 12:17 AM | #76 |
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I just realized this video was shot in my neck of the woods Interesting to see the gains at this elevation...thanks for sharing!
Last edited by SAINT VAN ROCK; 05-24-2013 at 12:28 AM.. |
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05-24-2013, 01:05 AM | #77 | |
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05-24-2013, 09:02 AM | #78 |
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Nice! You're welcome.
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05-24-2013, 09:15 AM | #80 |
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05-24-2013, 11:36 AM | #81 | |
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Go checkout the RB turbo guys making over 500 RWHP/TQ. I love running them because even with drag radials, they can't get traction on the initial hit on a 40-50 mph roll-on and I can pull a car or two immediately.
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05-24-2013, 01:13 PM | #82 |
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Well, you just wrote that traction was a joke with about 450 lbs rwtq UNTIL you added LSD and wider wheels, which means traction was OK after that. So the traction issues associated with greater torque can be addressed.
I do agree that massive torque that breaks the tires loose can make it next to impossible to regain traction after that without backing way off the throttle. I have a 3200 lb E36M3 with a GT3582R turbo that makes 500 lbs rwtq by 4000 rpm and can fit only 255 wide tires. There is nothing I can do if I want to maintain that torque other than to cut the arches and run flares and much bigger tires and maybe a higher lock LSD. Or I can reduce torque to maintain traction -- one way would be to run a traction control system that cuts fuel like the Racelogic. Another would be to go to a slower spooling turbo like a GT4094R that would give a more centrifugal supercharger like power curve -- so I understand your comment about how the centrifugal can help traction. But massive torque is so much fun in a daily driver. |
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05-24-2013, 01:19 PM | #83 |
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Traction can be modulated. It's not all about stomping on the pedal and hoping for the best.
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05-24-2013, 06:41 PM | #84 |
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It's not? Should I open my eyes also?
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05-24-2013, 07:31 PM | #85 | |
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My gen2 lvl 3 put down 275 wtq at 3000rpm, 300 wtq at 3500 rpm, 375 wtq at 4500 rpm, 400 wtq at 6200 rpm and 410 wtq at 7500 rpm. I am extremely happy with this tq curve and driveability feel on and off the track.
Dyno Dynamics. Quote:
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05-24-2013, 08:03 PM | #86 |
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I'm game for gobs of torque down low
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05-24-2013, 09:23 PM | #88 | |
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I did it with my 335 by being able to utilize the features within the Procede to create a customized boost map by targeting boost at 500 RPM intervals. This way when I went to the track, I had a linear power band. For non-track driving, I didn't just target max psi at 3,000 RPM as I knew that would create tire spin...so I kept boost down to 10-12 psi until 4,500 RPM and then it progressively ramped up to 18psi and then tapered to 16.5psi at redline. Did this work? Heck yeah I could cut 0-60 times of 3.5 seconds in street conditions. My buddies Serge (Sick335) and Dave (SRanch335) both have RB turbo 335's with LSDs and drag radials/slicks, they are STILL spinning on the initial hit. Oh, and Serge busted his half shaft a few months ago as well. Why? 500+RWTQ. from 3,000 RPM to 4,500 RPM. I'd love to see what happens to a DCT with a powerband like that. Oh wait you can....just see all the problems the guys are having with the 335is with upgraded turbos.
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