Rod bearing class action update

[bkdore]

It would be nice if BMW would step up to the same level as Porsche did for the GT3 and offer a 10 year 120,000 mile engine warranty.

[bmwfst1]

I second that.

[srmast1]

That sounds awesome. But I just don't think this will happen. From what I remember, the e46 m3 failures were much more prevalent than the e9x failures. The e46 m3 just had some problems.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by bkdore

It would be nice if BMW would step up to the same level as Porsche did for the GT3 and offer a 10 year 120,000 mile engine warranty.

Man if they did that. I would go ahead and buy the M3 right away.

I'm still on the fence just for this. I know you can change rod bearings, but even with that in mind, I am still on the fence for some reason, with some people mains RIPing.

[srmast1]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Man if they did that. I would go ahead and buy the M3 right away.

I'm still on the fence just for this. I know you can change rod bearings, but even with that in mind, I am still on the fence for some reason, with some people mains RIPing.

Look into a c63 amg or a fast audi if you are that nervous about the rod bearing thing. Those cars have their own problems but for sheer street supremacy in stock form, it's hard to beat the c63 amg.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by srmast1

Look into a c63 amg or a fast audi if you are that nervous about the rod bearing thing. Those cars have their own problems but for sheer street supremacy in stock form, it's hard to beat the c63 amg.

Yeah! But no manual for the C63... and RS5 are very sparse and expensive plus only AWD. Closest would be S5 but that's not in the same leauge.

Like the M3 E9X is the perfect car I always dreamt but then there's this issue.

[srmast1]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah! But no manual for the C63... and RS5 are very sparse and expensive plus only AWD. Closest would be S5 but that's not in the same leauge.

Like the M3 E9X is the perfect car I always dreamt but then there's this issue.

Ahhh...you are like me with the need for the 6mt. Ever considered a CTS-V? By all accounts the manual in that is better than the e9x manual. That and the CTS-V is also a street supremacy machine, but does have its own issues. One of those issues is...it's not a handsome car. Also what about a Lexus F car, like an ISF with the staggered quad exhaust..not sure if they come in 6mt though?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by srmast1

Ahhh...you are like me with the need for the 6mt.

At first, I didn't want to do anything with manuals. But then after owning my first manual car; 2004 330ci, I want everything in manual now

Originally Posted by srmast1

Ahhh...you are like me with the need for the 6mt. Ever considered a CTS-V? By all accounts the manual in that is better than the e9x manual. That and the CTS-V is also a street supremacy machine, but does have its own issues. One of those issues is...it's not a handsome car. Also what about a Lexus F car, like an ISF with the staggered quad exhaust..not sure if they come in 6mt though?

I kinda forgot about the CTS-V, but lol indeed, as you mention it's not a style I find fitting.

Lexus either I didn't think off. Altough I prefer 2 door, old IS F looks nice. But they're really rare here, only one in my province and it's a automatic.

But the E92 M3... maybe I'm overreacting. If I do the rod bearing change, most people here did them and they're fine right. I did find a shop who do they, with VAC bearings and the ARP bolts. I could afford that as soon as I get the car. It is mostly, the only thing that's wrong with the engine right.

But then, I am scared something is done wrong by the shop. But it is a reputable shop so. See. I'm always thinking about the worst..

[HomoPirate]

subbed

[Koo]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah! But no manual for the C63... and RS5 are very sparse and expensive plus only AWD. Closest would be S5 but that's not in the same leauge.

Like the M3 E9X is the perfect car I always dreamt but then there's this issue.

If it's the perfect car you've always wanted to buy, spending another $2500 on rod bearing replacement shouldn't be a problem. I'm average, you'll spend $1-$2k on maintenance every year anyways, so this shouldn't break the bank for you. If you are planning on keeping the car long term, you can't afford not to replace rbs.

[vincE92M3]

Originally Posted by bkdore

It would be nice if BMW would step up to the same level as Porsche did for the GT3 and offer a 10 year 120,000 mile engine warranty.

One can dream. The volume M3/4 can't be compared to the GT3. Nor is it in the same price range. You'd better believe that that "included" engine warranty would then be baked into the base price of the car; $90-100k stripper M3

I definitely think BMW should do it for an M4 GTS though. Comparable prices to the GT3.

[bkdore]

Mazda also extended the RX-8 engine warranty to 8 years 100,000 miles when they had issues. I had very high expectations when I bought a BMW M car from a dealer. Their astounding incompetence in handling the BMW assist discontinuation issues (refused to let me renew, then no remedy allowed because I wan't a subscriber), airbag issues, just getting around to doing the fuse box recall from 2013 on the M3, and other minor things has alienated me. I understand they don't have a legal liability to address throttle actuators or rod bearing issues on cars outside of warranty, but it's the kind of thing I expect a premium brand to do to without customers having to resort to filing lawsuits.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars

I'm not sure what to expect. Will it be a lifetime warrenty on bearings? A preemptive replacement?

Let's say I keep my car another 10 years. They don't exactly have a warehouse full of S65 short blocks of my engine explodes. So how can they replace my engine?

If I had to guess...it would be a rod bearing recall and an extended warranty on the engine for rod bearing related failures.

For BMW, it will come down to what's cheaper. To settle? Or keep fighting it?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Koo

If it's the perfect car you've always wanted to buy, spending another $2500 on rod bearing replacement shouldn't be a problem. I'm average, you'll spend $1-$2k on maintenance every year anyways, so this shouldn't break the bank for you. If you are planning on keeping the car long term, you can't afford not to replace rbs.

Like I mentioned, that is already planned to do. All the shops nearby do VAC with ARP bolts. But still, I'm worried. There was some people whose mains went and engine still died.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Like I mentioned, that is already planned to do. All the shops nearby do VAC with ARP bolts. But still, I'm worried. There was some people whose mains went and engine still died.

Usually SC'd cars.

[srmast1]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

Usually SC'd cars.

See Midnight, a big problem with e9x failures is that there were people who would supercharge their car very shortly after purchase. We also now know that one s65 engine has potentially different rod bearing clearances than another s65. The ones with the narrower clearances have higher chance of engine failure due to oil starvation problems. Main issue is there is really no practical way to know if the s65 engine in question has these issues. So next, an s65 with marginally acceptable bearing clearance would/could potentially be ok for a long time UNLESS, you tune it aggressively and supercharge it, then it's failure rate is increased/life shortened since our high compression motor was never meant for FI. It can work with FI applications, but bearings must be switched and dropping the compression ratio as well as addressing other weak points. I would also do pistons because they can break under the extra torque created by FI, add a CAI, exhaust and a decent tune. (I am not allowed to do any of this but one can dream)

So then the problem is that alot of people did not do it this way. Some were fine, some were not. Some e9x had such low clearances that they had catastrophic engine failure even without supercharging, others were on the edge and the supercharger pushed it over and killed it. Main bearing failure is not so prevalent however. But, in all these threads, I have only seen a couple of guys admit they were supercharged before engine failure, the rest goes like this; " I was just driving at 3000 rpm and then my car just died.", but their is no way to know if it was SC'D or not. Because of this, the data is so skewed due to all these "confounders" where owners will not admit they were supercharged before failure.
Because of this, I believe BMW will get this thing dropped in court or have a very easy settlement simply due to an unknown number of failed m3's that were supercharged, and owners not coming forward. Because of this we will NEVER know the natural failure rate of these cars.

On this forum they say it's about 1% failure rate, but many e9x owners are not on this forum, and many will not report the failure, just fix it, and definitely never attribute their engine failure to supercharging. This is because if BMW finds out somehow that your car is/was aggressively tuned and supercharged, you will get ZERO good will from them..and who wants that? There is a long thread on rod bearing failures, and no body admits to being supercharged.

[srmast1]

If you want some peace of mind, just do the rod bearings or add a decent aftermarket warranty. They aren't cheap, but seem to be quite handy after reading posts by forum members stating how their warranty company covered the cost or most of the cost of the parts and labor. I have a warranty from National, purchased through a BMW dealer. It covers many, many things including main/rod bearing failure. Mine also covers a/c, electric seats, moonroof, but alot of drivetrain, powertrain, electrical, rotating assembly, lubricated parts especially, but also covers some maintenance things like door switches, window motors, etc.. But not clutch unfortunately, much of the transmission but not clutch assembly. It covers me until either 100k miles or 4 yrs, started January of this year. It was $3600 and i have 52k miles on my m3, bought 10/22/15. This is why my car is stock. Mods and tunes will negate parts of or the entire warranty. Double edged sword eh? You could just do the bearings..But the more miles, the worse the warranties become. You would want to buy a m3 with less than 50k miles for a decent warranty. I got mine at 49k.

[raptorman5174]

Subbed

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by srmast1

See Midnight, a big problem with e9x failures is that there were people who would supercharge their car very shortly after purchase. We also now know that one s65 engine has potentially different rod bearing clearances than another s65. The ones with the narrower clearances have higher chance of engine failure due to oil starvation problems. Main issue is there is really no practical way to know if the s65 engine in question has these issues. So next, an s65 with marginally acceptable bearing clearance would/could potentially be ok for a long time UNLESS, you tune it aggressively and supercharge it, then it's failure rate is increased/life shortened since our high compression motor was never meant for FI. It can work with FI applications, but bearings must be switched and dropping the compression ratio as well as addressing other weak points. I would also do pistons because they can break under the extra torque created by FI, add a CAI, exhaust and a decent tune. (I am not allowed to do any of this but one can dream)

So then the problem is that alot of people did not do it this way. Some were fine, some were not. Some e9x had such low clearances that they had catastrophic engine failure even without supercharging, others were on the edge and the supercharger pushed it over and killed it. Main bearing failure is not so prevalent however. But, in all these threads, I have only seen a couple of guys admit they were supercharged before engine failure, the rest goes like this; " I was just driving at 3000 rpm and then my car just died.", but their is no way to know if it was SC'D or not. Because of this, the data is so skewed due to all these "confounders" where owners will not admit they were supercharged before failure.
Because of this, I believe BMW will get this thing dropped in court or have a very easy settlement simply due to an unknown number of failed m3's that were supercharged, and owners not coming forward. Because of this we will NEVER know the natural failure rate of these cars.

On this forum they say it's about 1% failure rate, but many e9x owners are not on this forum, and many will not report the failure, just fix it, and definitely never attribute their engine failure to supercharging. This is because if BMW finds out somehow that your car is/was aggressively tuned and supercharged, you will get ZERO good will from them..and who wants that? There is a long thread on rod bearing failures, and no body admits to being supercharged.

Those who already swapped RBs, and then instead blew the main were SC'd, IIRC.

Yet to see a report of a stock/near stock E9X blow a new RB or the main after the RB swap.

[srmast1]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

Those who already swapped RBs, and then instead blew the main were SC'd, IIRC.

Yet to see a report of a stock/near stock E9X blow a new RB or the main after the RB swap.

That's exactly right...supercharging is just risky for a motor that wasn't meant for it at all.

[STooK]

How long would we have to wait to see the verdict? I have extended warranty until 2019 so I'm going to wait regardless but would be interesting to see what comes out of this.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by srmast1

If you want some peace of mind, just do the rod bearings or add a decent aftermarket warranty. They aren't cheap, but seem to be quite handy after reading posts by forum members stating how their warranty company covered the cost or most of the cost of the parts and labor. I have a warranty from National, purchased through a BMW dealer. It covers many, many things including main/rod bearing failure. Mine also covers a/c, electric seats, moonroof, but alot of drivetrain, powertrain, electrical, rotating assembly, lubricated parts especially, but also covers some maintenance things like door switches, window motors, etc.. But not clutch unfortunately, much of the transmission but not clutch assembly. It covers me until either 100k miles or 4 yrs, started January of this year. It was $3600 and i have 52k miles on my m3, bought 10/22/15. This is why my car is stock. Mods and tunes will negate parts of or the entire warranty. Double edged sword eh? You could just do the bearings..But the more miles, the worse the warranties become. You would want to buy a m3 with less than 50k miles for a decent warranty. I got mine at 49k.

Yeah I was looking into warranty options. What I didn't like is, they forced you to do oil change very 5k or 3 months.

But then I looked at BMW dealership used cars and do offer more, "normal" warranties. I can still do the work myself if I keep receipts and all that. Was looking at a car in my budget it had 107 000 KM. Warranty was 3500$ for 4 years or 30 000km. I'm thinking going that route. A rod bearing change is 3k so I'm not really loosing much. And that extra 500$ would cover a throttle actuator for example. And in that time I could save up real slow over the years for the rod bearing change.

I dunno really. Not sure yet.