DIY: S65 Throttle Actuator

[eswaroop]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I've never looked at mine during ignition but I can't imagine why they'd exercise. I mean when you start the car it's the idle air control valve that controls the idle, so unless the computer cant see the throttle position why would it exercise? Just thinking out loud, but I'm pretty sure mine doesn't do that..

Not sure - maybe re-initializing or calibrating the range ? Note this is NOT when turning the engine on ( which happens on 2nd power button press with clutch depressed ) but rather with 2nd power button press without clutch depressed

[eswaroop]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I've never looked at mine during ignition but I can't imagine why they'd exercise. I mean when you start the car it's the idle air control valve that controls the idle, so unless the computer cant see the throttle position why would it exercise? Just thinking out loud, but I'm pretty sure mine doesn't do that..

Maybe some folks can try and report back - easy to observe the linkages on the passenger side when someone inside turns power on ( press power twice - manual tranny only )

[eswaroop]

Ok, long story on my 09 M3.. Car was running fine, but coming up on 54k miles. Wanted to rebuild the TA's ahead of complete failure, so took the risk of taking them out and swapping out the gears.

Got myself a pair of used TA's (with at least one known bad one) to first learn how to rebuild the TA's and swapped out the gears myself on that pair first.

When I pulled my TA's instead of then rebuilding my own pair, I used the mechanicals(gear and spring assembly, the bottom part of the TA's except the boards) from the set I found used, and paired them with the good boards on my original TA's (probably first mistake) - tested the motors on both to be at least operational.. Put everything back together and car ran fine for at least a 1000 miles.


Now I got a little greedy I guess as I had read the TA linkages may be stiffening up and eventually cause the gears to fail, so decided to open the car back up to clean and lube them.. This is when things started going south.

When I lubed the throttle linkages. first I lubed bank 2, I used a penetrating lubricant (Wurth HHS-K) - the bank seemed to get a lot smoother and easier to operate the valves (at least by hand). But after a few minutes, I realized that this lubricant is also somewhat adhesive like when it dries, and gets a unique adhesive like consistency.. Anyways I panicked and did not use the same lube on Bank 1, instead opted for a different lube (penetrating lithium grease). Bank 2 got smoother as well, but was slightly stiffer - not as easy as bank 1 to operate.

Also when I was lubing the linkages, I moved the shafts longitudinally a bit to loosen them up (and possibly hurt the TA sensors? Not sure)

Anyway, I put everything back together, fired the car up and started getting error codes.. the same ones someone gets when a TA goes bad.. Bank 1 started failing pre-drive check at least once but then I turned off and started the car and unfortunately it went into limp mode.. I turned off the car, cleared the codes thinking maybe the linkage position was not calibrated and so reset codes, and restarted the car. Luckily, no codes appeared, so I assumed the error was a fluke and that all was good and put everything back together. Car drove fine for about 100 miles but then went into limp mode when driving today. Both bank 1 and bank 2 gave me errors.

Bank 1 - failed pre-drive check 2B21
Bank 2 - 2B16

Guess I panicked again, as I thought the mechanicals I used from the other set may be faulty, So I pulled out the TA's, rebuilt the original mechanicals of the TA's I had on the car with new gears, and put the TA's back on (essentially, back to original TA's with new gears) - And as my bad luck would have it, same errors still appeared

Bank 1 - failed pre-drive check 2B21
Bank 2 - 2B16

I almost gave up hope, but I tried one last step and swapped out bank 2 TA board for one from the used set I got and put everything back together.

The faults cleared and I was able to start her up normally once. But now I was weary with the intermittent nature of this whole exercise, so let her cool off and waited to try and re-test.

Sure enough, try to cycle again (No engine start, just power on to initiate the pre-drive checks and bank 1 fails pre-drive check)

Bottom line, I have one or more possible failure modes.

1) One ore more of the TA's are bad
2) Bank 1 is failing pre-drive check.

I am struggling a bit to decipher if the bad TA's are causing the bank 1 pre-drive check fail or if the tighter linkage is causing the check to fail.

What are my options forward? I am a bit worried that repeated pulling of the TA's may cause further induced failures eventually (bad connectors etc)

I could get a new set of TA's and swap them out to at least eliminate that possiblity of bad TA's but I doubt if it will fix the problem.

I am worried that the tighter linkage on bank 1 could cause the new TA's to fail prematurely.. Maybe try lubing it again until I can get it somewhat close to Bank 2? (I already tried cleaning it out and re-lubing, no luck)

Thoughts? Ideas? I am also operating a bit blind - a good troubleshooting software would go a long way here? What should I get?

[XKxRome0ox]

what parts do i need?
just the Throttle body actuators?
No other connected doohickey or wire or something?
about to order the rebuilt TA's to install next saturday

[da jemster]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

what parts do i need?
just the Throttle body actuators?
No other connected doohickey or wire or something?
about to order the rebuilt TA's to install next saturday

Just the unit themselves. But since you're in there and you've got the plenum off, if your thermostat needs replacing.

[XKxRome0ox]

managed to swap out both TA's today
took way longer because had difficulty reaching places and disconnecting a bunch of stuff
but at least it got done

but ... did i mess something up while i was swapping out the TA's?
or was it just time?
i ran diagnostic and got this error
2AF9 - coolant temperature sensor

Originally Posted by da jemster

Just the unit themselves. But since you're in there and you've got the plenum off, if your thermostat needs replacing.

when you say thermostat, are you referring to the coolant temperature sensor?
where exactly is it located? is it in the photo i put up?

[drrust]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5204faa5_z.jpg[/img]
[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ed11a74d_z.jpg[/img]
managed to swap out both TA's today
took way longer because had difficulty reaching places and disconnecting a bunch of stuff
but at least it got done

but ... did i mess something up while i was swapping out the TA's?
or was it just time?
i ran diagnostic and got this error
2AF9 - coolant temperature sensor

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b2b841a4_z.jpg[/img]

when you say thermostat, are you referring to the coolant temperature sensor?
where exactly is it located? is it in the photo i put up?

The temperature sensor is a small connector on the top front of the motor. It is located in the thermostat housing (the large coolant hoses feed into it). One needs to disconnect the sensor when getting slack in the wires to remove the actuators. If you look at about the 4:50 mark in this DIY video he points it out.

DIY: Thermostat & Waterpump (Video) https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1024830

[Yugo]

Is there a way to confirm if it's bank 1 or 2 based on the following codes:

U011E
P1628
P161F

I am suspecting bank 2, but would like to confirm before replacement. Thanks

[DanMpower]

Did anybody use a scan tool to reset throttle adaptations after changing these out? Necessary?

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by M and Ms

Did anybody use a scan tool to reset throttle adaptations after changing these out? Necessary?

No need. Just swap them out and drive off.

[kidvalor]

W/// Bro I just want to say thank you so much! I have been a long time M3 fan and after 5 years of saving I brought my first E90 M3.. It's my dream car and for the last 3 months its been my everything but a few weeks ago It started to go into limp mode and I panicked.

I found this article along with a few videos and I was able to complete this repair within about 2-2 and a half hours. I didn't find it to be very hard if you had the proper tools and this is legit my first time ever doing any type of work on an engine.

I have always dreamed of owning and working on M's and thanks to this guide I'm pretty confident I can tackle a number of repairs going forward if I have issues.

Don't even know if you still check this Forum but I would just like to say THANK YOU SO MUCH! Car is officially back on the road with no errors and my baby is purring like the day I got her!!! Couldn't have done it without your help!

[E46tknv]

Ordered myself a throttle actuator yesterday after seeing the exact same symptoms and looking at my ODO as well. I took out the old actuator today while waiting for new actuator to come in 2 days.

Took about 45min total with hand tools only . Thank you for the write up.

By the way, besides remove limp mode from the car, do you feel a difference in driving? Throttle response?

[W///]

Originally Posted by kidvalor

W/// Bro I just want to say thank you so much! I have been a long time M3 fan and after 5 years of saving I brought my first E90 M3.. It's my dream car and for the last 3 months its been my everything but a few weeks ago It started to go into limp mode and I panicked.

I found this article along with a few videos and I was able to complete this repair within about 2-2 and a half hours. I didn't find it to be very hard if you had the proper tools and this is legit my first time ever doing any type of work on an engine.

I have always dreamed of owning and working on M's and thanks to this guide I'm pretty confident I can tackle a number of repairs going forward if I have issues.

Don't even know if you still check this Forum but I would just like to say THANK YOU SO MUCH! Car is officially back on the road with no errors and my baby is purring like the day I got her!!! Couldn't have done it without your help!

It's my pleasure, and I'm glad to hear that this DIY has helped so many people over the years!

Like you, it was my dream to own an E92 M3. I actually skipped class in college to watch the live unveiling of the concept car online. Funnily enough, like you, my TVA decided to crap out about 1 month into the ownership. Back then, only the V10 DIY was out so I had to improvise a little bit with the S65.

This is actually probably not the easiest DIY to start with and you did it in pretty good time. That's how a lot of us started learning, just changing air filters, spark plugs and oil changes. You're off to a good start.

Thanks for the kind words and enjoy your M!

[Deadmon]

Went to the mechanic last week after getting my first "engine malfunction" light. 80k miles on my 2011. Haven't seen it since though.

They confirmed it was a 2B15, so bank 1. Labor was expensive of course, so I'm glad I found this thread to boost my confidence of DIY (read all 40 pages!).

Trying to figure out what else I should change while I have the plenum off aside from spark plugs. My mechanic gave me a list of other items to replace because they saw some oil leaking: valve cover O-ring, valve cover gaskets, oil separator gaskets, position sensor and the spark plug tube. Not sure how severe the leaking is, but is it worth the extra labor to replace all the gaskets?

Also trying to get a good list of exact tools people have used and measurements. I read the Torx bolts need T30? Any other recommended tools (aside from a long magnetic pole?)

I'll probably order TAs early next week and start grabbing tools this week. This will be my first DIY under the hood so I'm nervous/excited to learn. Hoping to knock it out on Memorial weekend.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by Deadmon

Went to the mechanic last week after getting my first "engine malfunction" light. 80k miles on my 2011. Haven't seen it since though.

They confirmed it was a 2B15, so bank 1. Labor was expensive of course, so I'm glad I found this thread to boost my confidence of DIY (read all 40 pages!).

Trying to figure out what else I should change while I have the plenum off aside from spark plugs. My mechanic gave me a list of other items to replace because they saw some oil leaking: valve cover O-ring, valve cover gaskets, oil separator gaskets, position sensor and the spark plug tube. Not sure how severe the leaking is, but is it worth the extra labor to replace all the gaskets?

Also trying to get a good list of exact tools people have used and measurements. I read the Torx bolts need T30? Any other recommended tools (aside from a long magnetic pole?)

I'll probably order TAs early next week and start grabbing tools this week. This will be my first DIY under the hood so I'm nervous/excited to learn. Hoping to knock it out on Memorial weekend.

if i had a little more time to prep and do the TA swap, i would have changed out the thermostat, water pump, and all the connected cooling system parts
belts and pulleys

because in order to do those other parts, you gotta open up the same area anyway

[Deadmon]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

if i had a little more time to prep and do the TA swap, i would have changed out the thermostat, water pump, and all the connected cooling system parts
belts and pulleys

because in order to do those other parts, you gotta open up the same area anyway

Appreciate the recommendation! I'll have to see if all those parts fit into my budget for this project. Thermostat for sure is one I forgot about (and the price difference from Genuine vs OE on FCPEuro is huge).

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by Deadmon

Went to the mechanic last week after getting my first "engine malfunction" light. 80k miles on my 2011. Haven't seen it since though.

They confirmed it was a 2B15, so bank 1. Labor was expensive of course, so I'm glad I found this thread to boost my confidence of DIY (read all 40 pages!).

Trying to figure out what else I should change while I have the plenum off aside from spark plugs. My mechanic gave me a list of other items to replace because they saw some oil leaking: valve cover O-ring, valve cover gaskets, oil separator gaskets, position sensor and the spark plug tube. Not sure how severe the leaking is, but is it worth the extra labor to replace all the gaskets?

Also trying to get a good list of exact tools people have used and measurements. I read the Torx bolts need T30? Any other recommended tools (aside from a long magnetic pole?)

I'll probably order TAs early next week and start grabbing tools this week. This will be my first DIY under the hood so I'm nervous/excited to learn. Hoping to knock it out on Memorial weekend.

I believe the TA torx bolts are T27 unless they changed depending on MY. Flat blades in a variety of different lengths and or a 4mm will help with plenum removal. VC cover gaskets and hardware is a bigger job compared to TA replacement but FCP do a kit for that too.

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by Abdul@mpowermotorsports

I've sold units to customers who had as low as 25k miles on their units. That's just ridiculous.

40k-60k miles is the average lifespan on these flawed OEM units.

Regards.

What happens if you drive with bad TA's ? Bank 1 gave signal twice in 4 months and lights went off and never came back.

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by TrAcK TRaP

What happens if you drive with bad TA's ? Bank 1 gave signal twice in 4 months and lights went off and never came back.

You won't necessarily damage the engine by driving with a faulty actuator. The only problem is that it will eventually go into complete limp mode. It starts with the code coming on briefly and then going away when you start the car again. Then it becomes more frequent. Then a time comes where the car is in complete limp mode.

So the wise thing to do is to order the units when you first get the code/Xmas lights. So you can avoid scrambling last minute if it goes into complete limp mode a week before track day etc. No point on kicking the tire down the road.

Just my humble opinion.

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by Abdul@mpowermotorsports

You won't necessarily damage the engine by driving with a faulty actuator. The only problem is that it will eventually go into complete limp mode. It starts with the code coming on briefly and then going away when you start the car again. Then it becomes more frequent. Then a time comes where the car is in complete limp mode.

So the wise thing to do is to order the units when you first get the code/Xmas lights. So you can avoid scrambling last minute if it goes into complete limp mode a week before track day etc. No point on kicking the tire down the road.

Just my humble opinion.

Thanks for the reply Abdul..

[drivetolive]

In the middle of this and almost at the finish line but hoping to get advice on a possible hiccup.

The "nipples" that attach to the TAs (highlighted in orange below) are not aligning with my TAs unless I move the nipple on the TA itself (thus moving the gear inside). Is this normal?

The new TAs are from M Power Motorsport if that makes a difference (rebuilt).

[TX]

Originally Posted by drivetolive

In the middle of this and almost at the finish line but hoping to get advice on a possible hiccup.

The "nipples" that attach to the TAs (highlighted in orange below) are not aligning with my TAs unless I move the nipple on the TA itself (thus moving the gear inside). Is this normal?

The new TAs are from M Power Motorsport if that makes a difference (rebuilt).

It's been a few years since I did mine, but if I remember correctly, The actuators will have spring tension on it when the butterflies are closed (off). You will need to pull up on the arm to make them line up. Then push the ball end back over the fitting.