My new M4 track review

[CanAutM3]

For those interrested, I did a write up of my first track experience with my new M4. I am also posting it here because that is where the real track junkies are hiding .

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1043515

[W///]

More or less agree with you on everything. The car is definitely big, which is not something I'm looking for (no family or anything). But I really enjoyed test driving it.

If the M2 doesn't pan out like the way I hope, this will more or less what I add to the E92 in a few years down the road. Thanks for the review.

[Sebringjetta]

nice write up thank you

[Groundpilot]

Nice review. That car looks great in silver
How do you cpmpare it to e9x m3 as far as lap times go?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Nice review. That car looks great in silver
How do you cpmpare it to e9x m3 as far as lap times go?

I ran the M4 on stock tires and pads, while I ran my E92 on square 275/35 NT01 with PF08 pads, so it is difficult to do a true comparison. I roughly figure the F82 is good for maybe 2 seconds on a 1:53 lap.

I'll find out for sure next spring when I get to run the M4 in its track setup.

[swartzentruber]

Good review, although most reports have the DCT F80 losing 50 pounds or so, which leaves me a little skeptical on the "I can feel the weight loss", although certainly the increased stiffness is likely to be felt and appreciated.

I'm also happy to hear of the no overheating issues on the track, though I'm wondering if over time this car will still see the DCT overheating that plagued some trackers, or if that's been fixed too. The F80 is a bit big for my tastes, but thinking of maybe an M2 in 2016, so if they can keep this car from overheating, the M2 should be no problem.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by swartzentruber

Good review, although most reports have the DCT F80 losing 50 pounds or so, which leaves me a little skeptical on the "I can feel the weight loss", although certainly the increased stiffness is likely to be felt and appreciated.

I'm also happy to hear of the no overheating issues on the track, though I'm wondering if over time this car will still see the DCT overheating that plagued some trackers, or if that's been fixed too. The F80 is a bit big for my tastes, but thinking of maybe an M2 in 2016, so if they can keep this car from overheating, the M2 should be no problem.

You are correct, according to the official specs, the weight reduction from E9X to F8X are 183lb and 138lb for 6MT and DCT respectively.

Bare in mind that my E92 was also DCT. My M4 is ~140lb lighter than my E92 and about the same weight as my E46. I felt the weight increase from the E46 to the E92 and can also feel the decrease going into the F8X. Combined with the improved suspension and chassis stiffness, it makes for a great package.

The DCT on my E92 became sluggish (likely because of overheating) when I shifted at very high RPM. I had the rev limit increased to 8600RPM through a tune. A couple of laps of shifting below 8000RPM brought back the DCT. I therefore assumed that the oil pump that drives the DCT servos was the main culprit for heating up the oil. I hope that with the lower RPM of the S55, the DCT will not suffer from the same overheating issues that the E9X did. Maybe some of that weight increase of the DCT went into improved cooling...

[okusa]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The DCT on my E92 became sluggish (likely because of overheating) when I shifted at very high RPM. I had the rev limit increased to 8600RPM through a tune. A couple of laps of shifting below 8000RPM brought back the DCT. I therefore assumed that the oil pump that drives the DCT servos was the main culprit for heating up the oil. I hope that with the lower RPM of the S55, the DCT will not suffer from the same overheating issues that the E9X did.

That doesn't seem right. The MT guys suffer exactly as the DCT guys do at the track.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by okusa

That doesn't seem right. The MT guys suffer exactly as the DCT guys do at the track.

Not sure I follow your comment.

We are talking about DCT overheating here, not engine overheating...

[okusa]

My bad I guess. I was responding to "heating up the oil."

[bigjae1976]

Nice write up! That intercooler is pretty damned cool! I think the M3/4 pretty much bitchslapped most of the performance concerns and fears of a turbo'd M3 from the die hard E9X M3 owners.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

For those interrested, I did a write up of my first track experience with my new M4. I am also posting it here because that is where the real track junkies are hiding .

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1043515

OP, good review, and nice driving in that E92 M3 ;-). Couple things though: I really wouldn't have driven a brand new car like that to the track. You want to wait a few thousand miles for proper break in. Next, I'm glad you weren't held back by oil temps. It had nothing to do with your intercooler, and everything to do with the 4 stand alone electric water pumps, and 8 coolers that BMW stuffed into your engine bay. From years of tracking the 335I, we all learned the hard way what BMW turbos are all about. In the end it's really not worth the maintenance headache to track these type of cars, which is why you're not seeing a lot of guys on the M4 track section. Anyways that's just my personal feelings. Congratulations, and good luck to you.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

OP, good review, and nice driving in that E92 M3 ;-).

Thanks

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Couple things though: I really wouldn't have driven a brand new car like that to the track. You want to wait a few thousand miles for proper break in.

I do know better than that . You may have missed this in the first sentence of my review, but I did ED with my M4; so I already had put 3000+ miles on the car when I re-took delivery at the dealer .

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Next, I'm glad you weren't held back by oil temps. It had nothing to do with your intercooler, and everything to do with the 4 stand alone electric water pumps, and 8 coolers that BMW stuffed into your engine bay.

I never implied that the oil temps and intercooler temp were directly related. When the F8X was announced with FI, there was much concern, myself included, about heat soak and engine overheating issues from a FI engine. I simply wanted to express my experience that neither was really a concern. The intercooler performs extremely well and heat soak seems like a non-issue on the F8X .

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

From years of tracking the 335I, we all learned the hard way what BMW turbos are all about. In the end it's really not worth the maintenance headache to track these type of cars, which is why you're not seeing a lot of guys on the M4 track section. Anyways that's just my personal feelings.

I think the fact that there aren't that many F8X at the track yet has more to do with the fact that it is a brand new car, barely 4 months on the market. As time goes by, we will see much more at the track. It was the same when the E9X first came out. It took a full year before I saw another E9X at the track when I first got mine in 2008. However, we were 2 F8X at this track event. You need to have a few on the street to have some on the track, but the F8X seem to be hitting the track pretty quickly .

What I can say though, is that, IMO, the F8X is a better track car out of the box compared to the E9X .

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Congratulations, and good luck to you.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Nice write up! That intercooler is pretty damned cool! I think the M3/4 pretty much bitchslapped most of the performance concerns and fears of a turbo'd M3 from the die hard E9X M3 owners.

Agreed. That intercooler is pretty darn impressive. Myself included, as a die hard E92 owner, had many apprehensions about the F8X. That F8X is pretty darn good (except for the sound).

[Killerfish2012]

An Fall track day in Canada to me isn't proof of the M4's triumph over oil/coolant/trans fluid heating issues. Wait until next year when we can see how the car fairs in serious summer temps.

[AxisMagi]

Fall ambient temps are not going to reveal the full overheating picture.
I watched an advanced driver heat soak his M4 at Buttonwillow this summer
after a few laps, morning session temps in the 90's and afternoon +100F.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by AxisMagi

Fall ambient temps are not going to reveal the full overheating picture.
I watched an advanced driver heat soak his M4 at Buttonwillow this summer
after a few laps, morning session temps in the 90's and afternoon +100F.

And an E9X would be doing the same thing? I parked my E90 next to an F80 at Road America. The difference in the amount of heat radiating from the engine bay was significant. My E90 would have damn near burnt your face off. The F80 was not nearly as hot. And that was after a session of the F80 chasing my E90.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AxisMagi

Fall ambient temps are not going to reveal the full overheating picture.
I watched an advanced driver heat soak his M4 at Buttonwillow this summer
after a few laps, morning session temps in the 90's and afternoon +100F.

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

An Fall track day in Canada to me isn't proof of the M4's triumph over oil/coolant/trans fluid heating issues. Wait until next year when we can see how the car fairs in serious summer temps.

We did see 70degF temperatures during the 3 days, even if it was fall in Canada .

Sure, not the hottest, but I would still see the oil temperature needle of my E92 and E46 creep up even in such mild outside temperatures. The F8X stayed rock steady at 100degC throughout the sessions. An interresting obesrvation is that the engine oil temperature seems to drop a few notches when running the engine in "Sport+" compared to "Efficient" mode. Further, the intercooler was actually cold to the touch after a full 30min session. Not luke warm or cool, but cold. This gives me reasonable confidence that there is margin and that the F8X is able to run at the track at least as well as did my E92. I had concerns regarding this because of the move to FI, and it seems BMW did a good job with the heat management on the F8X.

I agree though, the true test will be on scorching mid summer days (yes, we have those too in Canada once in a while )

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

And an E9X would be doing the same thing? I parked my E90 next to an F80 at Road America. The difference in the amount of heat radiating from the engine bay was significant. My E90 would have damn near burnt your face off. The F80 was not nearly as hot. And that was after a session of the F80 chasing my E90.

But admittedly that's a purely subjective way to measure heat. Actual data from the 335I back in the day revealed that exhaust gas temps at the track were in excess of 1,600F. So if you were to do this same comparison at night and check under the F80, you'd see the down pipe glowing.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Sure, not the hottest, but I would still see the oil temperature needle of my E92 and E46 creep up even in such mild outside temperatures. The F8X stayed rock steady at 100degC throughout the sessions. An interresting obesrvation is that the engine oil temperature seems to drop a few notches when running the engine in "Sport+" compared to "Efficient" mode. Further, the intercooler was actually cold to the touch after a full 30min session. Not luke warm or cool, but cold. This gives me reasonable confidence that there is margin and that the F8X is able to run at the track at least as well as did my E92. I had concerns regarding this because of the move to FI, and it seems BMW did a good job with the heat management on the F8X.

Again, I don't know what this is being used to extrapolate, but that has virtually nothing to do with oil, coolant, and trans temps. Glad you had a good experience, but let me just give everyone the benefit of the doubt here, and assume the cooling mechanisms in the F80 are sufficient year round. Now, just how did BMW achieve this feat? You have 2 electric stand alone, Map based thermostats, and 4 electric stand alone Map based water pumps. The vehicle has 8 fluid coolers, and I think 6 of them are serviced by deviated coolant from the radiator. So, if you are staying cool for 30 mins straight, take a moment to consider what's happening to your electric water pumps. They are running at max speed. From years of experience with those things on the 335I, that doesn't bode well for their longevity, at all. The real drama comes when you are going to replace even one of those things after failure, which can render the vehicle inoperable. Remember that it takes a trained tech 8 hours to get to one of them in a 335I. Now there are several other issues that constant tracking of the new M3/4 will reveal about BMW turbos. I can go into them if you're interested. Topics such as intake/exhaust valve carbon build up from direct injection, BMW turbo, HPFP, Injector, and vanos reliability, and the list goes on.

[Killerfish2012]

On a lighter note, you really can have fun with the new M4 at the track. TC Kline ran a 2:32 at road America, with their full suspension package, and Hoosiers R6:

At Laguna Secca though it seems they ran a 1:39 on street tires, and their suspension kit. Still very impressive. Love the McLaren they caught up to in this video:

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Now there are several other issues that constant tracking of the new M3/4 will reveal about BMW turbos. I can go into them if you're interested. Topics such as intake/exhaust valve carbon build up from direct injection, BMW turbo, HPFP, Injector, and vanos reliability, and the list goes on.

You may be right, I have no clue about running any BMW on track and longevity issues. However, I think what OP is trying to convey as early impressions is that after few initial track time he has spent, the car seems to be operating well and compared to his experience with the e92, the F8x has thus far performed to his expectations or may be even better.

I have had the impression that BMWs have had overheating issues at the track, and they are not designed of any sort of track use out of the factory, needing some level of modifications to this and that, although it is arguably the wrong impression. Nevertheless, the F8x seems to be better suited for light to moderate track use based on early reports, but time will tell.

Well done CanAutM3 with the review, hopefully the car will hold well to track use.