Am I crazy?!? E90 for 911 S/4S

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

Im assuming because you also see the market going up?!

Nopes. Most of the time when I see a thread of someone asking if they should get a Porsche I tell them they definitely should. Life is too short to be unhappy with your car ownership experience.

I instruct people in Porsches often and so far have driven exactly zero that turn me on in any way shape or form. Perhaps a 991.x GTS/GT3 would do it, I don't know as I don't have extensive seat time in them.

Whenever I see comments in the style of 'for 100k I'd be in the Porsche dealership' I would ban that member, as cars should be given consideration based on their performance and capabilities vs how insecure the owner is and their need to 'class up' by driving a fancy-badged car.

As far as the market, I don't look at cars as investments. It's stressful enough to not daily drive my MCB ZCP E92 M3 because it's a nice car, I could never get something that is 10x more rare.

The 993 is priced in the stratosphere and I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me for free. I'm not interested in markets driven by 70 year olds who finally have accumulated enough banana peels to buy a car they should have bought 30 years ago.

Finally, we have someone here who seems to have enough banana peels to buy whatever he wants and he says he doesn't think what you are contemplating is an upgrade, so I'll take his word for it

[EnVe46]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

A little surprising that you are not in negotiations with several buyers at this very moment. All anyone has to do is follow your build from day one (6 pages & 30 minute read to catch up) and they will be able to see your dedication to bringing her back to life. Again, I hope you do not sell her and stay in the community as I just don't get the whole Porsche thing but that's only because of economics on my end.

Thank you sir! I've wanted a 911 my whole life and still do. It's not necessarily a speed thing or faster thing or any of majority the reasons people have posted on this thread. It's a bucket list item and my window is closing in on the opportunity where I'd have to wait several years most likely before it becomes a possibility again. I'm a car enthusiast thru and thru! Knowing I can always come back to another E90, albeit in another color, is making this decision easier.

I've read every persons posts and they're all appreciated! I've just come to terms that my outlook on switching cars is different than what others have. I'm looking for a different experience. These are 2 completely different vehicles delivering different experiences. The one I am surprised at is a few above about the quality and rattles. A drove a friends 2010 boxster s and that thing is tight, quiet and has a much high quality feel than my E90. Not saying my cars a POS but you can tell the difference right away in the level of quality. I've decided to go full swing and see what my car will fetch. It has to pull the number I'm comfortable with for this to happen. If it doesn't I'm still going to be happy.

And BOOF-M3 maybe I'll make it to the Tail of the Dragon run with either car! I'm trying to make that happen as we will be in NC for Thanksgiving this year

[Montaver]

I love experiencing new cars, so I can understand that mnotivation to try something new. I drove Shelby GT350 at the weekend, and hopefully should get some more seat time this weekend. It was absolutely incredible, completely changed by view of what American cars are capable of. The engine feels like a throatier and significantly more powerful S65, above 6K RPM it was laugh out loud fast. The chassis felt sorted, brakes were very confidence inspiring, lovely notchy gearbox. It has a lot of the e9x ingredients but feels significantly more of an event. I'd seriously consider it. If I can get more time in it i'll post a proper street review in the M3 vs. section.

[dlsq]

I own a 2013 m3 and bought a 997.1 turbo last year. Frankly, after daily driving the 997 turbo for a year, I have decided to sell it. Hard to beat the comfort, luxury and sound of the e92 m3. Test drove the 991.1 turbo s and might pick one up later or go with a mclaren 570s.

For reference my daily drivers was/are a 2013 Audi S8 and S6. Unfortunately some idiot totaled my s8 recently when it was parked in front of my house.

Also, I have driven a few 458's and Lambos. But I love the e92 so much, I am planning on buying a e90 and another e92 with DCT.

[dlsq]

Not to hijack the thread but here is the listing/pictures if anyone is interested.
https://goo.gl/yASeRu

[EnVe46]

Originally Posted by dlsq

Not to hijack the thread but here is the listing/pictures if anyone is interested.
https://goo.gl/yASeRu

Let's make a deal hahaha

Sounds like you have had quite the stable!

[M3Mongo]

I actually have both an e92 M3 along with a 991.1 Carrera S. They’re different cars. The Porsche feels a lot lighter when you drive them and while the M3 feels heavy.

For every day use the M3 is obviously the better choice. Only for the reason that it’s a lot easier to live with in a stock form its not as low and doesn’t ride as hard etc.

But the Porsche still very special and extremely fun to drive. But being in your boat I might just keep the E90. For that price point you can’t be it and in the long run you Will make out better in value over a standard 997.

Just my 2 cents

[Bemo]

OP keep the M3 and add a 911. Best of both worlds.
I love the lightness and driving dynamics of my 911 but hate the electric steering.
The S65 sounds epic and its hydraulic steering is superior but you feel the heaviness of the chassis, there's no escaping it.
If I can transplant the S65 and the steering into the Porsche, I'd have the perfect car.
Since that isn't possible, I'll keep them both.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do next

[sibhusz06]

I own a 997.1 4S and just recently joined this forum as i purchased an 2011 e90 m3. As someone pointed out, these cars are very different but its best to own both!

The 997 series is more comparable to the e90 as the 991 more so rivals the F80 given how the later cars are more GT in nature and have lost the originality of their predecessors.

If i had to pick just one car, i would go with the M3 but if you have a second car then the 911 is the car to have. The 911 just drives like a sports car should with quick turn in, outstanding brakes and just outstanding handling. One thing to note, is my 997 is far more reliable than any BMW I've owned to date(328xi, X3 and now M3) and it seems built much better as the body is so solid. The 997 is actually cheaper in terms of oil changes, brakes, tune up and insurance. My insurance is 180 higher on my M3 than my 911! Go figure...

But at the end of the day, you should drive the car and see if you like it as its a very different experience and there is very little overlap in dynamics.

[tubedreamer]

If it’s what you’ve always wanted you should do it. Whether it’s the better car or not is irrelevant because you don’t buy these used cars for being “better,” you buy it for the character you like. Newer cars are going to be “better”

What does the M3 do well? It still feels like an engineering compromise. It’s too heavy to be a good track car (eats tires and brakes). It’s got lots of horsepower but that’s for speed you can’t use. It guzzles gas. I get range anxiety in remote places where premium may not always be supplied. It doesn’t have much torque for a daily commute. Honestly electric cars are going to be better than the M3 for everything it is good at. Way faster acceleration and way more efficient, minimal body roll, and more interior/cargo space. It’s really going to make the M3 obsolete =(. I’m trying to hold on because of all the work for rod bearings/engine mounts and clutch pedal, and I finally like how it drives now and the look appeals to me.

Carreras are already obsolete with the rear engine format and 1960s look so it doesn’t even matter. Especially with the 997.2 you get it for the feel. The quirky rear engine dynamic, the stiff chassis, the light steering because there no engine over the front.

The 9a1 is a good daily car engine (no worries about rod bearings), 997.2 is the last with hydraulic steering and an actual hand brake. It’s the last with serviceable parts. Later cars don’t have serviceable part numbers for things like transmissions - they get replaced as a whole. Oil changes and air filter changes are easy. Engine mounts are easy.

With electric cars coming the M3 is the odd car out =( (maybe should go in the unpopular opinions thread). A 997.2 would be a keeper though I think.

[DSilk]

While the future is likely to be electric, that is unlikely to happen for at least another 15 years, if not longer. Not all electric cars accelerate like the Tesla. Just drive a Chevrolet Volt (old style), Bolt, or Nissan Leaf if you want to see how most of them will drive. Moreover, if the M3 gives you range anxiety, imagine how you will feel in an electric car that requires 2 hours to charge, assuming you can find a fast charging station with the appropriate charger plug (they are not standard). Think that the new BMWs have numb steering? Well the electric cars are no better, and they weigh over 2 tons.

Most of us bought our M3s because we are enthusiasts who actually want to be involved as drivers. Electric cars threaten to take all of that away in the name of efficiency. I think that both the e9X and 911 will be "keepers" in the age of electric cars as long as fuel remains available for them. Between the 2 my choice would be the 911 simply because it is more pure as a sporting car.

[EnVe46]

I just test drove one today. I wasn't able to fully push it as I'm not the type to hop in a 50k car and romp on it but I did have a little fun. It's completely different but I'm not 100% sold. I need more wheel time and I need to push it more to feel it. Getting back into my E90 was a delight. Speaks volumes on what BMW did with the E9x but my search is open.

[Mr.TT]

I agree with most of the other people here that you need to get higher up the rung with the 997 in order to justify the huge price increase over the E90.

I would keep the E90, sell the Volvo and use that money to get an older Boxster/Cayman. I had that setup for a while, SUV for kid duty, E90 M3 as my daily and for occasional kid duty (and yes it will fit a rear facing car seat just fine behind the passenger seat, provided you buy the right brand), and the Boxster as a cheap, fun sports car. Sold the Porsche for more than I paid for it after I got bored with it after a year. The Boxster was slow but handled insanely well, but quite frankly, any lower spec 997 is not fast either and handles worse than the Box/Cayman.

I would absolutely trade my E90 for a 997, but it would need to be a GT3 or a Turbo. Anything else, even a 4S is totally not worth it, especially if you are even remotely contemplating using the car as a backup family car.

I will have my 911 one day, but it will be a turbo, and I don't really see it as a direct replacement for an E90 M3.

[Bemo]

One car can never fully replace the other for multiple reasons (driving dynamics, weight, steering, everyday usability). Make sure you're mindful of the trade offs before moving in either direction.

Good luck.

[opihi5]

If you can afford the car go for it. If you need to haul sh*t around buy a truck.

[6ixSpd]

Lol here we go again.

[BOOF-M3]

If you buy anything less than a GT3 or a turbo it will be like buying a 328i. Your first driving impression that you just experienced will be the same on anything you drive other than a GT3 or turbo. How could a lower end, older P car with what I am assuming has an outdated interior and driving at grocery getting speeds ever give you the smile that you had getting back into the absolute number one M3post vehicle of 2017/2018. Hands down your car was the comeback player of the year. Read your thread again. I get it, we all like change when it comes to vehicles but you already own the GT3 of BMW's, I cannot imagine you taking two steps backward.

[DerEisbaer]

Originally Posted by EnVe46

I just test drove one today. I wasn't able to fully push it as I'm not the type to hop in a 50k car and romp on it but I did have a little fun. It's completely different but I'm not 100% sold. I need more wheel time and I need to push it more to feel it. Getting back into my E90 was a delight. Speaks volumes on what BMW did with the E9x but my search is open.

What version did you drive today? Carrera, S, GTS?

Reading this comment, maybe another suggestion:

Keep the M3 as a daily (maybe even sell the Volvo if it comes down to space, but I assume that car did and does not "cost" you that much...) and rent a proper Porsche at the track every once in a while.

This way you can keep the M3 that you have long searched for, with the right color, spec etc., you can keep it immaculate and it will be fun whenever you switch from the Volvo/Daily to the M3.
And if you want a different experience, rent the Porsche and go nuts in a closed environment.

Just my 2 cents

[EnVe46]

The model I test drove was an S. To make my post clear I just drove around to get the feel for the car. It felt great, comfortable and totally livable. Quality interior, shifter feels was amazing. I never went full throttle as I may buy that car and wanted them to take me seriously not some guy coming in to romp on a 911. I did go through some twistys and that's where it shined with the little throttle I gave it. The power delivery is nothing like the M3, but you'll get to triple digits quickly without even knowing it. I was close to 80 in whatfelt like a few seconds without hammering it.

What I'm not sold on is if it can deliver the smiles my E90 can throughout the day, repeatedly and give that rush when pushing it. I haven't experienced it to know. I'm not sold til I can. However, it's all I thought about later that day til this morning even. So maybe I'm sold in other ways. Got me to still be thinking about it, thinking about driving daily and having fun through traffic. Who knows at this point hahaha

A turbo or gt3 are out of my comfort zone for payments. Sure I can swing it and wouldn't change my life financially but I try to keep payments at a some what reasonable amount and those both put me above that threshold or trust me, I would be shopping them. I want a more modern 911 as it'll be a daily so some creature comforts are important, therefore a 996 isn't an option.

[serranot]

The only car that made me smile close to what the M3 does was a Porsche Boxster S. It's different though. It's a little go-cart that handles incredibly well and has the best brakes in the industry (IMO). The engine note was incredible, but it's no S65.

Back then I didn't have kids. Now that I have two, the M3 scratches both the performance car enthusiast itch and the practical itch, something the Boxster is incapable of doing.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by CalgaryX3

Needless to say, my next sports car will be a Porsche. That said, it will supplement and not replace the E90 M3 which is divine in its own right, and something unlike anything else that has been built and engineered since it's time, or for the foreseeable future. Nothing can beat the song of the S65 at 8000 rpm with the ability to row your own gears. Those are the cars of yesteryear!

This was my approach, though I started with a Porsche. I guess I take issue with the idea that Porsche is just a nameplate--they're very legit cars that have their own pros and cons.

Originally Posted by M3Mongo

I actually have both an e92 M3 along with a 991.1 Carrera S. They’re different cars. The Porsche feels a lot lighter when you drive them and while the M3 feels heavy.

It doesn't just feel that way, it actually IS that way. It's funny that you always hear about the E93's extra 400lbs around here, but the 991S being 500lbs lighter than an E92 is often overlooked.

Originally Posted by Bemo

OP keep the M3 and add a 911. Best of both worlds.
I love the lightness and driving dynamics of my 911 but hate the electric steering.
The S65 sounds epic and its hydraulic steering is superior but you feel the heaviness of the chassis, there's no escaping it.
If I can transplant the S65 and the steering into the Porsche, I'd have the perfect car.
Since that isn't possible, I'll keep them both.

Yes, I definitely prefer having an older 911 and an older M3 rather than having one newer version of either car.

[tubedreamer]

Drove the c2s at Autocross yesterday. Boy is it fun to drive the c2s at the limit on crappy tires. A lot of sliding involved but it’s so controllable. The lift off oversteer just adds an extra dimension to steering with the throttle. it happens slowly enough that you can always catch it. I was not fast but it sure was fun. A midengine car will be sharp until the limit then it snap oversteers and that’s not fun. I’ve never really been able to get the e90 to lift oversteer, you must have to go really fast to get it to happen and then it’s scary and hard to control. The chassis stiffness and lower center of gravity of Porsches just seems to communicate rotation and instability better than the e90 chassis.

C2S ftw. If you get a 4s for the look, get it converted to rwd for better steering feedback and the rwd dynamic. I really don’t see the point in a turbo DFI Porsche (awd to put that torque down but steering gets numbed), and a gt3 is not really great for daily driving. C2S is mild mannered enough for daily driving yet is fun to slide around a cone course. C2S is not a drag race car (neither is a stock e90 M3). If drag race thrills quicken your pulse, get a P100D or a used P85D.

I don’t want to bash on the e90 because I like it too but it seems like the car has too much plastic, and electronics, and guzzles a disproportionate amount of fuel vs acceleration to really be a long term classic, plus over 20,000 were originally sold in NA. There doesn’t seem to be a floor to the depreciation.