Track forum general chit chat.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by evilspiritM3

Here you go-

Lots of projects on the list:

Wheel rack
Paint
Epoxy floor
Lighting
110v power
Cabinets

Add “buy another spare wheel and tire for the trailer” to your to do list. You’ll thank me later.

Wheel rack consists of laying them on their side. Check that project off the list. . Actually, I stood pairs up in front and behind the wheel wells and strapped them to D-rings I added with a 2” wide ratchet strap.

Yeah, get something down on that wood before it gets crapped up with tire goo and oil drips. Bed liner is excruciatingly heavy, but might be the ticket for chip board flooring.

Way cool side door.

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by gmx

Do some reading on tire modelling; physical displacement properties and slip angle.

If each tyre displaces differently, your setup is irrelevant or not-optimal. Anecdotally, this has happened countless times in motorsport where the tender is won by a new supplier. From series where basic R-comps are tendered to slicks at high levels.

Allow me to chime in as best as possible at the hour of ....past my bed time...and brain power is fading.
Align the car as aggressive as you can take it, if it's your daily then take what I said with a grain of salt.
After years of driving, on numerous tire compounds, sizes, alignment specs I found the sweet spot. Anyone that i let test drive my car has agreed that it's the sweet spot and it performs the way a track car should, balanced.
I run BFG R1 slicks 285 square on 18x10.5 rim.
Alignment is -3.7 upfront and -2 rear. Corner balanced because well...I'm 245-250lbs. Corner balanced is much needed in my case I feel.

First and foremost I learned how to drive my car at the limit with 265 front tire and 295 rear on 18" wheels .....with everything off. Then went to 275/35/18 square Slicks..everything from Hoosier, Toyo, BFG. Then went with Pirelli DH Comp slicks 285 front and 305 rear and I must say that was a wild setup, car felt good but not as balanced as I wanted it. Then for the past 2 years I've been running 285 square BFG R1 slicks. Sweet spot..lots of grip and I dialed in my 2way MCS to accommodate the square setup. Feeling of the car and especially the lighter rear end (fully gutted). Fastest I ran Limerock was 58 and it was 34 degrees outside, tires were chorded lol..never doing that again.
This year I'm going to try something new. I purchased SLICER's BBS RIA 18x10.5 with 295 square Cup 2 tires. I'm curious how the grip will be and it looks Stellar on the car! I know I'll be alittle slower on the straights at WATKINS GLEN but I'll gain some in the twisties. To add...As of a month ago I went higher with my spring rates 900 upfront and 1200 rear. I'm grinning as I wrote that because I can't wait for spring tome to arrive! I believe I may do SPL rear camber arms because I'm pretty much maxed out on the OEM system so I feel the rear should be -2.3 or -2.5.
What I'm trying to say here is trial and error, consistency. Many factors but it will make you a better performer and knowledgeable at that. Determine you're ability and to decide what's right for the style of driving you seek.

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by romero1990

Do you guys replace stock oil cooler in the front or just stay with stock? I noticed even at current norcal 53F weather, I will still get 210F oil temp on gauge on street and I can see it move up by 10-20F if I Rev up about 4K rpm. Good thing is it cools down fairly fast after I drop rpm(upshift). But the cool down is only a hair below 210 ( say 10-20F below 210F)

Seems normal. I have CSF radiator, do88 engine oil cooler, and trackspec hood vents. Warm up takes a long time in the current weather, I've driven from the rincon hill entrance of the bay bridge all the way to the oakland exit and still have just warmed up to right under the 190-210 range.

The car's thermostat generally works to keep it around 210, and going up to 220-230 is quite normal when things are hot. Start worrying when you see 265-280... I can get quite close to that on track.

[romero1990]

kpewpew roastbeef Ximian

thanks guys! I might just clean the radiator up with compressed air. It looks horrible from front. Sounds like there isn't much to worry about yet.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I want to be clear, I am not disagreeing with you. I have put a set of hoosier R7 on this setup and that can't be beat. I am not tryin to do 1:35 with less of tires.

Having said that, It does not mean that EVERY TIME I go for a track day I MUST put on a set of expensive tires. In my book I MAY put on a less expensive tires for time to time to feel and explore

For example, If I want experiment with 275/30/19 front and 275/35/19 rear. I will be doing it with the cheapest tires I can find in the max performance summer or ultra perf summer.

Now if we are going into "why do you want to do that, most people don't" well, I don't have an answer for that. I just do want to.

Just chiming in to say, you can have the best of both worlds. I have several friends who drive Corvettes and Camaro's... heavy cars with massive tires. I always couldn’t figure out how they could afford 300+ width tires and going through them so fast with their weight. At the end of the day, their solution to go fast and cut some costs was to buy race tire take-offs from local race teams and use them. Cheaper and still go fast, just may not last quite as long, but I think dollar to dollar might be a good compromise for you. Most likely though an 18” wheel will give more choices there, and it sounds like your brakes won’t clear to fit any 18’s?

Also, I will add although it’s unconventional, I do appreciate you trying a bunch of different unusual tires. Nobody ever really gives feedback on anything outside of the normal “go-to“ stuff. And it’s always nice to have something to say to someone new who may not track their car often that “yeah if you have XYZ tire and you you want to go play at a track 1-2times a year, XYZ tire will be OK if you don’t want to spend crazy money”

[m13s]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

Allow me to chime in as best as possible at the hour of ....past my bed time...and brain power is fading.
Align the car as aggressive as you can take it, if it's your daily then take what I said with a grain of salt.
After years of driving, on numerous tire compounds, sizes, alignment specs I found the sweet spot. Anyone that i let test drive my car has agreed that it's the sweet spot and it performs the way a track car should, balanced.
I run BFG R1 slicks 285 square on 18x10.5 rim.
Alignment is -3.7 upfront and -2 rear. Corner balanced because well...I'm 245-250lbs. Corner balanced is much needed in my case I feel.

First and foremost I learned how to drive my car at the limit with 265 front tire and 295 rear on 18" wheels .....with everything off. Then went to 275/35/18 square Slicks..everything from Hoosier, Toyo, BFG. Then went with Pirelli DH Comp slicks 285 front and 305 rear and I must say that was a wild setup, car felt good but not as balanced as I wanted it. Then for the past 2 years I've been running 285 square BFG R1 slicks. Sweet spot..lots of grip and I dialed in my 2way MCS to accommodate the square setup. Feeling of the car and especially the lighter rear end (fully gutted). Fastest I ran Limerock was 58 and it was 34 degrees outside, tires were chorded lol..never doing that again.
This year I'm going to try something new. I purchased SLICER's BBS RIA 18x10.5 with 295 square Cup 2 tires. I'm curious how the grip will be and it looks Stellar on the car! I know I'll be alittle slower on the straights at WATKINS GLEN but I'll gain some in the twisties. To add...As of a month ago I went higher with my spring rates 900 upfront and 1200 rear. I'm grinning as I wrote that because I can't wait for spring tome to arrive! I believe I may do SPL rear camber arms because I'm pretty much maxed out on the OEM system so I feel the rear should be -2.3 or -2.5.
What I'm trying to say here is trial and error, consistency. Many factors but it will make you a better performer and knowledgeable at that. Determine you're ability and to decide what's right for the style of driving you seek.

Great post. Sums it up. the E90X likes alot of camber, 18" square.

Take a look at Toyo RR's for cost they are really affordable and a solid tire.

[bigjae1976]

I've been experimenting with aero over the last year on my E46 M3. Nothing fancy yet, just a rear wing and plywood front splitter. I've learned that its not just throwing on a CF splitter and then go. After raping the plywood splitter on my 28' enclosed trailer and my buddy's open trailer, I was glad I didn't jump right into a CF splitter. Then scraping it on the crappy paddocks at MSR Houston. Then trying to do an alignment when I cut the splitter too wide and can't get to the tie rod nuts.

I've been blessed with pretty even tire wear pre and post aero. I might have to rotate tires if I run the same track the same direction. Otherwise they wear evenly. Then with the aero and running the car much lighter, my tire wear has been amazing! I was thinking I could get 5-6 weekends out of NT01s. I've been turning average lap times trying to get the car dialed in. I think I finally got the setup going in the right direection so I started turning much faster times at my last event. Then my splitter broke early on the 2nd day. Probably due to plywood and a 35mph head wind. I noticed my front tires were worn WAY more than my fronts. The tires started out looking about the same.

Thoughts on whether aero helps tire wear? If an aero imbalance can really cause more wear on the front axle? After the front splitter broke, the car certainly didn't steer as well into the turns. I've seen conflicting POVs on this.

BTW...a 28' trailer doesn't sound like its a lot bigger than a 24' trailer but it is. Don't do it.

[roastbeef]

What about length? Is there a minimum good length?

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I've been experimenting with aero over the last year on my E46 M3. Nothing fancy yet, just a rear wing and plywood front splitter. I've learned that its not just throwing on a CF splitter and then go. After raping the plywood splitter on my 28' enclosed trailer and my buddy's open trailer, I was glad I didn't jump right into a CF splitter. Then scraping it on the crappy paddocks at MSR Houston. Then trying to do an alignment when I cut the splitter too wide and can't get to the tie rod nuts.

I've been blessed with pretty even tire wear pre and post aero. I might have to rotate tires if I run the same track the same direction. Otherwise they wear evenly. Then with the aero and running the car much lighter, my tire wear has been amazing! I was thinking I could get 5-6 weekends out of NT01s. I've been turning average lap times trying to get the car dialed in. I think I finally got the setup going in the right direection so I started turning much faster times at my last event. Then my splitter broke early on the 2nd day. Probably due to plywood and a 35mph head wind. I noticed my front tires were worn WAY more than my fronts. The tires started out looking about the same.

Thoughts on whether aero helps tire wear? If an aero imbalance can really cause more wear on the front axle? After the front splitter broke, the car certainly didn't steer as well into the turns. I've seen conflicting POVs on this.

BTW...a 28' trailer doesn't sound like its a lot bigger than a 24' trailer but it is. Don't do it.

Are you going to do any NASA events this year? Season opener at MSRH in 4 weeks. I am not sure if I will make it.

I have 10 feet of ramp to avoid scraping the splitter.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Are you going to do any NASA events this year? Season opener at MSRH in 4 weeks. I am not sure if I will make it.

I have 10 feet of ramp to avoid scraping the splitter.

Can't make the Jan date since I'm in the process of relocating the ECU to the interior, some more wire harness thinning, weight loss, and maintenance. Probably won't be done until Feb.

[Grillpt]

Bigjae, try using Alumalite. Way better then plywood, durable and light weight.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

What about length? Is there a minimum good length?

20’

I think 22-24’ is the sweet spot. I had 26’ trailer and it was heavy and huge.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by slcook54

dparm What does that typically cost?

Depends on the coach. Expect at least $800/day all the way up to $2000/day if you want someone really elite. You can get private coaching from guys like Randy Pobst, Ross Bentley, or Mike Skeen...no joke. If they're not local, you'll pay for expenses, too.

My suggestion is to find someone reasonably competent nearby that has a good list of references. You're in CA so that shouldn't be too difficult. The guys in this forum can probably make some recommendations. You will also want to think about what you want to get out of coaching and discuss that with them before you even get in your car. Just saying "I want to go faster" is too vague. My other piece of advice will be to leave your ego at the door and be ready to accept criticism and critique without taking it personally...otherwise you are just spending hundreds of dollars to have someone yell "drive faster" on the radio / in the right seat.

[OG Shark]

For bumper pull trailers I think 20’ for open and 24’ for enclosed are good lengths. A 20’ open leaves room for lockable storage boxes under a tire rack in the front which is very helpful. 24’ enclosed is a nice mix of storage and maneuverability. I have a 28’ enclosed bumper pull - awesome trailer but at 34’ OAL it’s right there at the point that a gooseneck makes much more sense if you have the truck for it. Looking at getting into a gooseneck stacker.

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I've been experimenting with aero over the last year on my E46 M3. Nothing fancy yet, just a rear wing and plywood front splitter. I've learned that its not just throwing on a CF splitter and then go. After raping the plywood splitter on my 28' enclosed trailer and my buddy's open trailer, I was glad I didn't jump right into a CF splitter. Then scraping it on the crappy paddocks at MSR Houston. Then trying to do an alignment when I cut the splitter too wide and can't get to the tie rod nuts.

I've been blessed with pretty even tire wear pre and post aero. I might have to rotate tires if I run the same track the same direction. Otherwise they wear evenly. Then with the aero and running the car much lighter, my tire wear has been amazing! I was thinking I could get 5-6 weekends out of NT01s. I've been turning average lap times trying to get the car dialed in. I think I finally got the setup going in the right direection so I started turning much faster times at my last event. Then my splitter broke early on the 2nd day. Probably due to plywood and a 35mph head wind. I noticed my front tires were worn WAY more than my fronts. The tires started out looking about the same.

Thoughts on whether aero helps tire wear? If an aero imbalance can really cause more wear on the front axle? After the front splitter broke, the car certainly didn't steer as well into the turns. I've seen conflicting POVs on this.

BTW...a 28' trailer doesn't sound like its a lot bigger than a 24' trailer but it is. Don't do it.

I'd like to see pictures of your car, preferably a side shot...front shot.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

For bumper pull trailers I think 20' for open and 24' for enclosed are good lengths. A 20' open leaves room for lockable storage boxes under a tire rack in the front which is very helpful. 24' enclosed is a nice mix of storage and maneuverability. I have a 28' enclosed bumper pull - awesome trailer but at 34' OAL it's right there at the point that a gooseneck makes much more sense if you have the truck for it. Looking at getting into a gooseneck stacker.

If I go enclosed, I'm going 20' with dual 3.5k axles. I really don't need the incentive to carry more stuff to the track. It's also much lighter so you have more payload capacity.

That was the biggest problem with the 28'. There's so much room but the trailer is a lot heavier so your payload goes down. Then you need a 3/4t to tow.

You can still tow a 20' with a 1/2t truck.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

I'd like to see pictures of your car, preferably a side shot...front shot.

Here are some pics

[Grillpt]

Splitter looks big. How many inches is that, like 6?

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Here are some pics

Nice!
Throw some dive planes on the bumper man. It will be noticeable especially if you run a big wing/Front aggressive splitter.....Also, you need to cover up the lower portion of the bumper/splitter tie in.
Whenever you have no front splitter, Big Wing, no dive planes and aggressive wide wheels/tires will will have more tire wear upfront. That's a a given. Think about it...rough air not channeling correctly.
You're front end needs Grip!!! And please take note at the setup's below. That's what you need on you're car....if you are chasing fast lap times... if not ...run no aero anywhere!

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

If I go enclosed, I'm going 20' with dual 3.5k axles. I really don't need the incentive to carry more stuff to the track. It's also much lighter so you have more payload capacity.

That was the biggest problem with the 28'. There's so much room but the trailer is a lot heavier so your payload goes down. Then you need a 3/4t to tow.

You can still tow a 20' with a 1/2t truck.

Absolutely right, more room usually just means you take more crap that you never are going to use. Definitely can make 20’ enclosed work and definitely more 1/2 ton friendly. And 1/2 ton > 3/4 ton and up as a DD! I could actually tow my 28’ with most of today’s half tons but wouldn’t really want to very often. I don’t like being that close to capacity like you said, prefer the brakes and payloads of a bigger truck for that size. The difference maker for me on 20 vs 24 would be if the 24 lets me keep from having to use the bed and the 20 didn’t. Hate loading/unloading the bed multiple times over the course of a weekend.

[dogbone]

My enclosed trailer is a 22’ box—-26’ tip-to-tip. I tow it with a 1/2-ton 2013 Toyota Tundra.

The 22’ box contains cabinetry in an L-shape. I really like the whole setup. The Tundra is towing at capacity but it does it just fine. I’ve towed 10’s-of-thousands of miles without issue.

Personally, I would not want to give up the cabinets for a shorter trailer, and I don’t feel the need for a longer trailer.

[roastbeef]

yea, i didn't know if the length helped with the "feel" of it. i've never towed anything. i'm probably going to rent an open trailer next month. i still have to pick up a brake controller.
when i buy, i'll likely end up with an open aluminum trailer with a tire rack. i'm not in a hurry to buy, so i can hold out for a deal.
my capacity is 7,200 lbs, so i have to watch the weight of the trailer.