Using 0W40 = more oil flow is false

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by regular guy

But the pump is connected to the engine, by way of a gear on the nose of the crankshaft. See photos below.



Got it. No worries.

Here's pictures of the S65 oil pump assembly. Notice there are actually two pumps. One pump simply drags oil from the rear to the front of the sump (or I may have it backwards...it's late). The main oil pump is driven directly from the front gear on the crankshaft (see photo-1). In Photo-2, you can see the oil pump with gear that drives directly from the crankshaft. The secondary pump is driven from the chain you see. The secondary pump pull oil from the rear of the sump to the front.

I hope this helps visualize the engine a little better.







Full set of engine disassembly pictures:
http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=204

photo 19 and 20 what are you pointing at?

[Verify]

FYI, since going to 5w40 roughly 3 weeks a go, the car not only warms up faster, but oil temps have been running cooler even as the weather is warming up and car being driven harder.
That tells me the oil is flowing in and out of where it needs to much easier and doing its job more efficiently.

[W///]

Originally Posted by SickeM3

FYI, since going to 5w40 roughly 3 weeks a go, the car not only warms up faster, but oil temps have been running cooler even as the weather is warming up and car being driven harder.
That tells me the oil is flowing in and out of where it needs to much easier and doing its job more efficiently.

Agreed. Just to be clear with everyone so that they aren't confused:
In my case, it warms up faster to about 1/3 mark than thicker oil. Once you get past 210, it also cools off faster than thicker. My car doesn't see over 230F though (no track time)

[klammer]

I love threads like this! More technical please

[Amirsm3]

Since this thread is still fresh, I figure I'll ask here.

Would running a thinner oil warrant faster oil change intervals? I understand some of higher end oils have "better" chemical properties, but I'm just curious. Aren't thinner oils more prone to "shearing"?

I intend on changing the oil in my M every 5k miles anyway, but it was just a random thought.

[marksae]

A TBN analysis can be done by Blackstone to determine how much life is left on the oil.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

[thekurgan]

Longwong seems to have a lot of accounts here.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Amirsm3

Since this thread is still fresh, I figure I'll ask here.

Would running a thinner oil warrant faster oil change intervals? I understand some of higher end oils have "better" chemical properties, but I'm just curious. Aren't thinner oils more prone to "shearing"?

I intend on changing the oil in my M every 5k miles anyway, but it was just a random thought.

No, oil weight has very little to do with change intervals. Oil weight also has very little to do with shearing. There is the notion of "temporary shear" which is from brief stressful conditions, and "permanent shear" which is from long-term stress. BMW's LL-xx testing (along with ACEA) only permit a certain amount of shear over the oil's service life.

Do not assume that higher-end oils are better. Boutique oils are blended with different goals in mind than what BMW demands for LL-xx and even what the ACEA mandates. BMW's requirements are very specific and they often collaborate with the blenders. Red Line, for example, is interested in performance applications and doesn't care about meeting OEM requirements.

You probably don't need to change every 5k unless you're at the track every weekend. I suggest you pay for the analysis, including TBN and TAN, and adjust your change schedule as necessary. Don't just arbitrarily pick a change interval.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by marksae

A TBN analysis can be done by Blackstone to determine how much life is left on the oil.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

Correct. But you need a TAN to go along with the TBN (additional $10). TBN without TAN, or vice-versa, is not very useful.

TAN = total ACID number
TBN = total BASE number

It's also helpful to know the virgin (new) TBN and TAN numbers. Without comparing TAN and TBN, you only have half the picture. Although there may be reserve alkalinity, you may have built up a ton of acids that necessitate a change.

For example, you could show a TBN of 2.0 but a TAN of 3.6. That should've been changed out long ago.

[luxbmw]

Originally Posted by Vic311

regular guy and kawasaki00 in 3...2...1....

[Amirsm3]

Originally Posted by dparm

No, oil weight has very little to do with change intervals. Oil weight also has very little to do with shearing. There is the notion of "temporary shear" which is from brief stressful conditions, and "permanent shear" which is from long-term stress. BMW's LL-xx testing (along with ACEA) only permit a certain amount of shear over the oil's service life.

Do not assume that higher-end oils are better. Boutique oils are blended with different goals in mind than what BMW demands for LL-xx and even what the ACEA mandates. BMW's requirements are very specific and they often collaborate with the blenders. Red Line, for example, is interested in performance applications and doesn't care about meeting OEM requirements.

You probably don't need to change every 5k unless you're at the track every weekend. I suggest you pay for the analysis, including TBN and TAN, and adjust your change schedule as necessary. Don't just arbitrarily pick a change interval.

It's mostly arbitrary, but I stuck to it ever since I had my '05 M3.

Oils and the chemical makeup involved are still new to me so I'm trying my best to absorb as much as I can.

[kenwelch]

Originally Posted by klammer

I love threads like this! More technical please

I located a few videos for today’s class, just for Smiley and those that would like a little technical training (skip this if you already know everything… You’re excused from class early ):

Oil pump operation

Pressure relief valve operation

Engine Running NO OIL - NO SUMP - Seized Soild on Camera

Busting Oil Change Myth

Motor Oil: "Riding the Film" 1937 Chevrolet Engine Lubrication

Warning: Some of the 1937 methods are not used in the BMW S65 engine.

Thanks to Regular Guy for the outstanding pictures. I can use these in class.

[klammer]

Originally Posted by kenwelch

I located a few videos for todays class, just for Smiley and those that would like a little technical training (skip this if you already know everything Youre excused from class early ):

Oil pump operation

Pressure relief valve operation

Engine Running NO OIL - NO SUMP - Seized Soild on Camera

Busting Oil Change Myth

Motor Oil: "Riding the Film" 1937 Chevrolet Engine Lubrication

Warning: Some of the 1937 methods are not used in the BMW S65 engine.

Thanks to Regular Guy for the outstanding pictures. I can use these in class.

Awesome! That's why I love this place

[G80indy]

I like the last video the most

[8k3]

The 1937 video was a trip. Man technology has changed

[e92zero]

I like all the videos and the pictures. Thanks!

[Law]

Wow, subscribed so i can take a thorough look later.

Really like the maturity on this thread. Keep the knowledge coming!

[Sered]

Originally Posted by Brian_Fantana

Perfect response

:-D It's easy to spot the fakers. Oil flow has as much to do with the larger discussion as what beer I drank last week.

Those videos are great. I haven't seen all of them though.

[Smiley913]

Thanks for all the information! It was very informative!

My main focus is trying to determine if 0w40 engine oil will result in a greater flow rate to engine components during operational temperature. I understand the operation of relief valve will determine how much oil is going to engine components (BMRLVR also touched upon this). Does anyone know what pressure the relief valve is set at or under what conditions the relieve valve or other mechanical device will divert flow from engine components?

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by leigh

photo 19 and 20 what are you pointing at?

The bolt installed through the back of the vanos adjustment unit to lock the gears in assembly/disassembly position.

[dfjaws]

I'm really surprised at how long that car ran with no oil. I, for one, fully expected it to seize within a matter of seconds.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

The bolt installed through the back of the vanos adjustment unit to lock the gears in assembly/disassembly position.

Thanks, cuz I didn't quite understand the question. I thought he was talking about the last two digits of the photo file name.

Yes, that's exactly what I was pointing to. I knew I wasn't going to be there during the assembly of the motor, so I locked the VANOS with the screw and took photos so Aleks@Alekshop could show the engine builder where to unlock it and avoid buying the special tool.