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      09-28-2016, 10:32 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
They're clearly tuning to keep TQ down to avoid over stressing the factory rods. And traction is an entirely separate conversation from the engine performance (see a properly set up suspension, tires, etc. etc.).

And I would be concerned about the rods -- We're talking about an NA, high revving motor that was not designed for boost. By adding twin turbos, we're adding lots of low-end TQ that continues across the entire RPM range. Not a direct comparison, but the Porsche 997.1 Turbo (higher strength Mezger motor) stock tunes around 400 WHP/400 WTQ (TQ is what kills rods, so ignore that HP numbers for now). After upgrading everything, you can get into the 900 WHP area, but you cannot go above 700 WTQ safely. So the breaking point on a high performance, high quality, racing derived factory boosted motor is double the WTQ.

The E9x M3 M3 stock dynos around 350 WHP/300 WTQ, but like I said when I started, this motor was never intended/designed to be boosted, and I've be very conscious of going above 500 WTQ on stock rods (if not for my conscious, then in fear of the costs and headaches associated with sourcing a new block when something breaks).
Agreed, unlike earlier BMW motors that had stronger components in them this high RPM motor has some very light rods that are not that strong, I have seen them bend from poorly tuned supercharger kits. The pistons eventually size and the rods snap in half and people probably assume some of these bent rod failures are rod bearing failures. I have an engine right now that bent 5 out of 8 rods.
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      09-28-2016, 01:41 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LangRacingDevelopment View Post
Agreed, unlike earlier BMW motors that had stronger components in them this high RPM motor has some very light rods that are not that strong, I have seen them bend from poorly tuned supercharger kits. The pistons eventually size and the rods snap in half and people probably assume some of these bent rod failures are rod bearing failures. I have an engine right now that bent 5 out of 8 rods.
People bend rods in 2jz at only 650whp with 500tq with improper tuning and also using to small of a turbo to make larger power it happens more often. I wouldn't say I see bend rods on poorly tuned cars as a reason to state that the rods in this motor are weak. How ever I guess you would see more of these than I ever will.
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      09-28-2016, 02:06 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LangRacingDevelopment View Post
Agreed, unlike earlier BMW motors that had stronger components in them this high RPM motor has some very light rods that are not that strong, I have seen them bend from poorly tuned supercharger kits. The pistons eventually size and the rods snap in half and people probably assume some of these bent rod failures are rod bearing failures. I have an engine right now that bent 5 out of 8 rods.
I think the truth is no one really knows the answer, not one e9X m3 has ever run full e85. We'll all just have to wait and see. We've done tons of pulls on the dyno already and I'll be at shift sector driving the crap out of it. I'm not daily driving the car and do take good care of my vehicles so time will tell
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      09-28-2016, 02:07 PM   #48
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I think the truth is no one really knows the answer, not one e9X m3 has ever run full e85. We'll all just have to wait and see. We've done tons of pulls on the dyno already and I'll be at shift sector driving the crap out of it. I'm not daily driving the car and do take good care of my vehicles so time will tell
You would be right no one knows, you are the first on full e85 and twin turbo setup.
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      09-28-2016, 02:39 PM   #49
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You would be right no one knows, you are the first on full e85 and twin turbo setup.
That we know of.
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      09-28-2016, 07:06 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Properstyle View Post
lord where do you all get these claims. now rods snapp at 700whp? who and what m3 have you seen do that to make such a claim?
Just take one look at the rods they wont last more then a year 11psi stock CR theres going to be a lot of cylinder pressure also that will be a worry
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      09-28-2016, 08:03 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Properstyle View Post
People bend rods in 2jz at only 650whp with 500tq with improper tuning and also using to small of a turbo to make larger power it happens more often.
The 2JZ is another factory boosted motor, which is even less comparable then the Porsche Mezger motor. Why? Because the 2JZ, like the S54, are both iron blocks and from a time where engines were still way over engineered and not built to a budget. I mean, you can make 1,000 WHP on a stock 2JZ with straight ethanol, but once again you need to keep TQ below 800 so the rods don't collapse.
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      09-28-2016, 08:52 PM   #52
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Properstyle View Post
lord where do you all get these claims. now rods snapp at 700whp? who and what m3 have you seen do that to make such a claim?
Just take one look at the rods they wont last more then a year 11psi stock CR theres going to be a lot of cylinder pressure also that will be a worry
What setup are you running?
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      09-28-2016, 09:36 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
What?! Of course higher octane allows you to run higher boost, that's probably one of the best benefits of running a turbo (variable boost curves and+ boost targets). You really expect anybody to believe that the UGR Twin Turbo builds go from 1,000 WHP (Pump Gas) to 1,500 WHP (Race Gas) just from changes in the timing curve?!

SpeedHunters

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Read the entire statement. Race fuel allows you to advance ignition timing, prevent knock and detonation. And you just proved my point with an article you posted on your own.

"E85 isn’t magic, and there’s some basic science behind why you can expect more power. The real merit of the fuel is in two of its properties: its octane rating and its cooling ability. Octane rating is a measure of a fuel’s ability to withstand detonation or knock. Too much boost or too much ignition advance can lead to detonation on pump fuels and hence the fuel’s octane rating often limits the power we can make. Increase the octane rating though and we can often make more power. The octane rating of E85 is in the region of 105, but when combined with its cooling properties, the actual knock resistance of E85 is much higher than the octane rating would suggest."
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      09-29-2016, 12:24 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucrecio84 View Post
What setup are you running?
Just finishing off fuel system catch can and a few other things waiting for syvecs too

An ess kit with built 4.5l 9.5.1 CR head work v2ti with air assist ARH headers with 3" exhaust running on e85
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      09-29-2016, 07:42 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
The 2JZ is another factory boosted motor, which is even less comparable then the Porsche Mezger motor. Why? Because the 2JZ, like the S54, are both iron blocks and from a time where engines were still way over engineered and not built to a budget. I mean, you can make 1,000 WHP on a stock 2JZ with straight ethanol, but once again you need to keep TQ below 800 so the rods don't collapse.
the rods bend quite often well below that was my point. That tuning and setup have alot more to do with the longevity of the motor than basing it off of what one setup failed at. A supercharge will always put more stress on a motor then a turbo setup that is larger. Larger turbos equal better cooling, less tq ramp, and ease of power on a lower boost setting. Put e85 in this mix and you have another ball game to play with. E85 has crazy detonation resistance and runs cooler.

I personally do have a ess 625kit car and a 2jz swapped car and work locally at a performance shop that focuses on rb26s. Sense being their I've learn more people put limits on motors base off other people pure failures then they do off actually experience and analyzing why something failed.
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      09-29-2016, 06:05 PM   #56
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Congrats! Now sell hundreds of kits and prove reliability over a few years and I'll buy one
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      09-29-2016, 06:31 PM   #57
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Congrats! Now sell hundreds of kits and prove reliability over a few years and I'll buy one
Thank you! No need to prove anything really. This is more of a custom kit done in house only for someone that wants to go above and beyond the ordinary so selling hundreds is doubtful but enjoy your ESS kit bud!
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      09-29-2016, 08:25 PM   #58
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Congrats!!!

When is your next strip event and will we have to wait till then to see it running and shredding pavement?
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      09-29-2016, 11:24 PM   #59
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Congrats!!!

When is your next strip event and will we have to wait till then to see it running and shredding pavement?
Yes I'll be at shift sector in October! Other than meeting up with some friends this weekend. Picking up the car tomorrow!
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      10-01-2016, 01:37 PM   #60
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The low end tq will definitely add more stress compared to the linear power band of a centri. 11 is a lot, while e85 prevents detonation, it's still a ton of stress. Good work but for street I'd dial it down
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      10-02-2016, 01:23 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by 8k4
The low end tq will definitely add more stress compared to the linear power band of a centri. 11 is a lot, while e85 prevents detonation, it's still a ton of stress. Good work but for street I'd dial it down
Yea I will have a couple different maps to choose from on the fly with Syvecs so I'll only run 11psi when needed
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      10-03-2016, 09:40 AM   #62
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Yea I will have a couple different maps to choose from on the fly with Syvecs so I'll only run 11psi when needed
When are you converting to standalone? Just because the Syvecs will also alot more useful features like an aftermarket traction control strategy (reduce ignition instead of closing the throttle), DCT tuning, complete FlexFuel, anti-lag from a stop & roll, engine protection measures (low fuel pressure safety thresholds), etc.
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      10-03-2016, 10:13 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
When are you converting to standalone? Just because the Syvecs will also alot more useful features like an aftermarket traction control strategy (reduce ignition instead of closing the throttle), DCT tuning, complete FlexFuel, anti-lag from a stop & roll, engine protection measures (low fuel pressure safety thresholds), etc.
From what he mentioned earlier, I think they're still waiting for Syvecs to get them a unit.
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      10-04-2016, 11:00 PM   #64
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We actually received the unit last week. They didn't send the boost controller that we need for it so waiting on a couple other things but at least we finally have it in our possession! I will keep everyone informed on my thoughts with it
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      10-05-2016, 08:39 AM   #65
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We actually received the unit last week. They didn't send the boost controller that we need for it so waiting on a couple other things but at least we finally have it in our possession! I will keep everyone informed on my thoughts with it
Will Gintani be wiring/tuning the system? Or are you having someone more familiar with the Syvecs platform do that part of the build?
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      10-05-2016, 11:02 AM   #66
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Will Gintani be wiring/tuning the system? Or are you having someone more familiar with the Syvecs platform do that part of the build?
Alex at Gintani will be doing all the wiring and the tuning
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