Flywheel timing, clutch replacement!!!

[tlrid3r]

I worked on replacing my clutch and flywheel this weekend and I after all the work car wont start. Just cranks and pops.

Right away I thought to check the the crank position sensor since it’s located on the transmission, it was working (ordered another just in case and its on its way)
But soon after I remembered I don't recall if I installed the flywheel in the same position as the original one. That being said, no I don't know what the original position is anymore since I cranked the motor several times.

I searched for hours and look through many different manual (newtis.info, e-manualsonline etc) none of them reference about flywheel timing or show in the reinstall instruction about a position.

Does anyone have in information of experience with this.
Much appreciated.

[amrazM]

The flywheel just goes back into the dowels, I've never aligned a flywheel a certain way. Did you check resistance across the CPS?

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by amrazM

The flywheel just goes back into the dowels, I've never aligned a flywheel a certain way. Did you check resistance across the CPS?

I did I got about 686 Ω, and I applied a metal part near it gets a inconsistent reading. So picking up a replacement just Incase.

Thanks

[BP709]

You likely misaligned the flywheel. The dowel on the crank lines up with a specific position on the flywheel. If it is not in that position then the crank sensor thinks TDC is in a different position than it really is...that's why it doesn't start. Seen this happen far too many times over the years.

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by BP709

You likely misaligned the flywheel. The dowel on the crank lines up with a specific position on the flywheel. If it is not in that position then the crank sensor thinks TDC is in a different position than it really is...that's why it doesn't start. Seen this happen far too many times over the years.

Yes tried a new sensor and didn't work. So you are right, either I misaligned the flywheel or it's a bad flywheel. Cause I remember aligning the flywheel with the dowel sleeve.

I guess I'll have to remove the trans and flywheel again.

Only thing I need to sort out is how to remove a brand new clutch without affecting the self adjustment part.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by tlrid3r

Yes tried a new sensor and didn't work. So you are right, either I misaligned the flywheel or it's a bad flywheel. Cause I remember aligning the flywheel with the dowel sleeve.

I guess I'll have to remove the trans and flywheel again.

Only thing I need to sort out is how to remove a brand new clutch without affecting the self adjustment part.

Possibilities:

-Dropped the flywheel or damaged the reluctor ring.
-Misaligned the dowel sleeve.
-Left other wires disconnected or became damaged.

You'll need the special BMW centering ring and lock tool for the Self Adjusting Clutch (SAC). There is no other way to safely remove the clutch without affecting the adjustment. If you remove the clutch without doing so, you'll need a different SAC clamping fixture tool to depress the pressure plate and reset the adjustment, then use the holding ring tool to hold that position until the clutch is installed.

Another gotcha on the tooling- Not all clamping fixtures are compatible with the updated clutch diameter even though they say they are. Especially the Chinese tools.

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Possibilities:

-Dropped the flywheel or damaged the reluctor ring.
-Misaligned the dowel sleeve.
-Left other wires disconnected or became damaged.

You'll need the special BMW centering ring and lock tool for the Self Adjusting Clutch (SAC). There is no other way to safely remove the clutch without affecting the adjustment. If you remove the clutch without doing so, you'll need a different SAC clamping fixture tool to depress the pressure plate and reset the adjustment, then use the holding ring tool to hold that position until the clutch is installed.

Another gotcha on the tooling- Not all clamping fixtures are compatible with the updated clutch diameter even though they say they are. Especially the Chinese tools.

Thank you. I have a method to press the clutch and reset it. But don't really how to reset it. I attempted to reset the old clutch and couldn't do it. I'll search on procedure.

I'll be removing and check on everything.

[deansbimmer]

Pressing in the clutch isn't resetting it. You need to press it in and use the holding ring tool to rotate the three SAC fingers simultaneously. I don't know how you'd manage that without the tools so I'll just remind you that pressure must be applied evenly or you'll damage the pressure plate and/or SAC components.

I highly suggest using the right tools or you'll end up pulling the transmission a third time to fix disengagement issues, or after 10k miles because the clutch wore out prematurely.

Happy wrenching

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Pressing in the clutch isn't resetting it. You need to press it in and use the holding ring tool to rotate the three SAC fingers simultaneously. I don't know how you'd manage that without the tools so I'll just remind you that pressure must be applied evenly or you'll damage the pressure plate and/or SAC components.

I highly suggest using the right tools or you'll end up pulling the transmission a third time to fix disengagement issues, or after 10k miles because the clutch wore out prematurely.

Happy wrenching

Quick question my car is 01/08 production date and flywheel was purchase was the DMF148 updated with the updated clutch. Is there a difference on the flywheel that may cause an issue.

I used a harbor press to press with a still disc to apply even pressure. I did this on the old clutch just to see how it works.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by tlrid3r

Quick question my car is 01/08 production date and flywheel was purchase was the DMF148 updated with the updated clutch. Is there a difference on the flywheel that may cause an issue.

No, the reference rings are the same. I suspect the flywheel just didn't get installed on the dowel.

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

No, the reference rings are the same. I suspect the flywheel just didn't get installed on the dowel.

Yeah this weekend I'll have time to recheck. I most likely messed up than. I did align the dowel sleeve with the larger hole on the flywheel.

I'll update my finding

[BayE30]

all the SAC equipped bmw that i have done a clutch service on, had a pressure plate alignment tool attached, that is not removed until the assembly is installed. Are there additional tools that are required beyond this for new parts replacement?

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

all the SAC equipped bmw that i have done a clutch service on, had a pressure plate alignment tool attached, that is not removed until the assembly is installed. Are there additional tools that are required beyond this for new parts replacement?

No you don't need more tools, my question is for after the initial install how do you remove and reinstall with out losing the self adjustment

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by tlrid3r

No you don't need more tools, my question is for after the initial install how do you remove and reinstall with out losing the self adjustment

Read this

https://www.repxpert.com/en/mediadocument/LuK-SAC-TecBr-PC/en

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by tlrid3r

No you don't need more tools, my question is for after the initial install how do you remove and reinstall with out losing the self adjustment

Deansbimmer clearly has years of experience with these engines and has described the proper methods for accomplishing this task.

That said, he is a professional and likely not given to half-ass solutions of the sort sometimes employed by hobbyists (like myself). So here's my $0.02

I've used two non-approved and potentially dangerous solutions to this problem on N54 and S65 engines, with good results thus far:

Since you very recently replaced the clutch pressure plate, you may still have the trefoil-shaped locking ring that the plate should have been shipped with - the one you remove after bolting the plate up to the flywheel.

Remove the plate from the flywheel and don't worry about losing the adjustment. Then center the locking plate onto the fingers of the diaphragm spring and use it to position an 8" Harbor Freight 3-Jawed gear puller (about $17). Compress the diaphragm to the point where the clutch plate is retracted more or less flush with the housing. You may have to adjust the amount of compression but at some point it will become relatively easy to rotate the self-adjustment ring by hand or small screwdriver. Once those three little springs are compressed, you can rotate the locking ring into place. The latter will require tapping with a punch and small hammer because it is under pressure. Now you've restored the pressure plate to its original condition and you can remove the puller.

The process can also be completed if you don't have the original locking ring. However, in this case, you need to place an appropriately sized washer or metal disk on the diaphragm spring to compress it and you need to keep the 3-jawed puller in placed while you bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel. If you are careful about the placement of the jaws of the puller, this can be accomplished.

Not necessarily recommending that you do this, just putting it out there. If I could have sourced a good SAC tool for what I considered a reasonable price, I would have done it that way. At the time, I didn't find any Chinese tools. Although I note Deansbimmer's caution that the Chinese tools may not fit correctly, for $75-$100 I'll probably give the Ebay tools a try if there is a next time.

Edit: perhaps needless to say, you need the right kind of alignment tool to center the disk, one that doesn't stick out too far since the center of the diaphragm is covered with the locking plate/washer but one with a threaded bolt hole to allow removal after the locking plate is taken off.

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by dpaul

Deansbimmer clearly has years of experience with these engines and has described the proper methods for accomplishing this task.

That said, he is a professional and likely not given to half-ass solutions of the sort sometimes employed by hobbyists (like myself). So here's my $0.02

I've used two non-approved and potentially dangerous solutions to this problem on N54 and S65 engines, with good results thus far:

Since you very recently replaced the clutch pressure plate, you may still have the trefoil-shaped locking ring that the plate should have been shipped with - the one you remove after bolting the plate up to the flywheel.

Remove the plate from the flywheel and don't worry about losing the adjustment. Then center the locking plate onto the fingers of the diaphragm spring and use it to position an 8" Harbor Freight 3-Jawed gear puller (about $17). Compress the diaphragm to the point where the clutch plate is retracted more or less flush with the housing. You may have to adjust the amount of compression but at some point it will become relatively easy to rotate the self-adjustment ring by hand or small screwdriver. Once those three little springs are compressed, you can rotate the locking ring into place. The latter will require tapping with a punch and small hammer because it is under pressure. Now you've restored the pressure plate to its original condition and you can remove the puller.

The process can also be completed if you don't have the original locking ring. However, in this case, you need to place an appropriately sized washer or metal disk on the diaphragm spring to compress it and you need to keep the 3-jawed puller in placed while you bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel. If you are careful about the placement of the jaws of the puller, this can be accomplished.

Not necessarily recommending that you do this, just putting it out there. If I could have sourced a good SAC tool for what I considered a reasonable price, I would have done it that way. At the time, I didn't find any Chinese tools. Although I note Deansbimmer's caution that the Chinese tools may not fit correctly, for $75-$100 I'll probably give the Ebay tools a try if there is a next time.

Edit: perhaps needless to say, you need the right kind of alignment tool to center the disk, one that doesn't stick out too far since the center of the diaphragm is covered with the locking plate/washer but one with a threaded bolt hole to allow removal after the locking plate is taken off.

Thank you for your comment I was able to do what you said to the old clutch unit as an experience test with success. I had access to a harbor press. I reuse the locking ring as well. I was also able to reset the SAC.
Thanks again

[jvictormp]

I'm interested on the results.

Mine is 40k miles, some day - I hope it take a long time - I'm gonna need to do it.

Actually, I was wondering if it would be good to use a lighter flywheel, in order to make the RPM more easy to go up and down, and make faster gear shifts (we are talking about manual transmission, right?).

If it is possible, what would be the cons of that change?

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by jvictormp

Actually, I was wondering if it would be good to use a lighter flywheel, in order to make the RPM more easy to go up and down, and make faster gear shifts (we are talking about manual transmission, right?).

If it is possible, what would be the cons of that change?

Due to the original clutch design it wouldn't be a flywheel only, but a clutch/flywheel system. We've installed or sampled just about every lightweight flywheel and clutch setup available for street use. None of them received good marks from their owners after driving for a while. Stick with the stock setup unless its a dedicated track car.

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Due to the original clutch design it wouldn't be a flywheel only, but a clutch/flywheel system. We've installed or sampled just about every lightweight flywheel and clutch setup available for street use. None of them received good marks from their owners after driving for a while. Stick with the stock setup unless its a dedicated track car.

Originally Posted by jvictormp

I'm interested on the results.

Mine is 40k miles, some day - I hope it take a long time - I'm gonna need to do it.

Actually, I was wondering if it would be good to use a lighter flywheel, in order to make the RPM more easy to go up and down, and make faster gear shifts (we are talking about manual transmission, right?).

If it is possible, what would be the cons of that change?

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Due to the original clutch design it wouldn't be a flywheel only, but a clutch/flywheel system. We've installed or sampled just about every lightweight flywheel and clutch setup available for street use. None of them received good marks from their owners after driving for a while. Stick with the stock setup unless its a dedicated track car.

Yeah. My car has 110k miles. Finally the clutch was on its way out. Stick with stock. I personally think oem is the best on this scenario. To me lighter flywheel on low torque engine doesn't help much.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by tlrid3r

Yeah. My car has 110k miles. Finally the clutch was on its way out. Stick with stock. I personally think oem is the best on this scenario. To me lighter flywheel on low torque engine doesn't help much.

That and the gear clatter would drive me mad.

[tlrid3r]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

That and the gear clatter would drive me mad.

Continued on my clutch this weekend. I indeed installed the flywheel on the wrong hole for the dowel sleeve. My oversight. Dowel sleeve replaced. I was able to fab up my own SAC tool. Everything lock into place and reinstalled great.
Car runs. Clutch feel great. Well lesson learned to pay full attention. Just because it assembled well doesn't mean it's right. I was rushing the job and that cost me double the time.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by tlrid3r

Continued on my clutch this weekend. I indeed installed the flywheel on the wrong hole for the dowel sleeve. My oversight. Dowel sleeve replaced. I was able to fab up my own SAC tool. Everything lock into place and reinstalled great.
Car runs. Clutch feel great. Well lesson learned to pay full attention. Just because it assembled well doesn't mean it's right. I was rushing the job and that cost me double the time.

Thanks for following up with your solution and glad to hear it's all back to normal again.