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      03-29-2020, 12:54 PM   #111
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Each country should start making their own crap. Accept paying a little more for peace of mind.
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      03-29-2020, 12:59 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Wrong. The consensus today is this came from zoonotics. It's not like this virus had the same chance starting in Switzerland as it did a Chinese wet market. Your head is in the sand
Wrong. My head is not in the sand. I choose to wait till there is verifiable independent proof as to the origins of this virus versus what you all are jumping on which is conjecture and speculation. Doesn't matter how much science you have if none of it has been applied to a fact finding which thus far there has been none at ground zero. In the end, you may be right. But you may be wrong. Everyone loves to point to the data until it's inconvenient for your argument when said data is absent.
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      03-29-2020, 03:59 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Mingwan View Post
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
We already collective police each other. Building nuclear weapons for instance. Why is this different? Virus hasn't caused enough destruction for you yet? What if the next one is Ebola with COVIDs transmission rate?

Don't say it couldn't happen. People already didn't predict today's.

This ain't about race. This is about best practices for all regardless of race. If just one race eats animals that have a high likelihood of spreading viruses then there is one race that needs to stop. If it's 3 then three needs to stop. Don't care if anyone gets offended - peoples lives are at risk.

I'm not suggestion we carpet bomb China but I do think sanctions need to be in place of habits don't change. We need to stop relying on China. Part of that is our fault for wanting so much material stuff at the cheapest possible price
Restrictions on armament is a little different than telling another culture what they can and can't eat. Even if proven morally unacceptable, good luck enforcing that.

I personally don't care if they're eating anything from iguana lips to giraffe neck so long as they're practicing proper processing and sanitation procedures that limit spread of disease. Barring endangered and keystone species of course.

And numerous people already saw this coming. People just don't want to listen because we like doing shit last minute.
It less about what they eat vs how they interact with the animals. As you may or may not know culturally they value killing the animal as close to eating as possible. Have you seen wet markets before? I have. They are repulsive and reprehensible. The lack of hygiene and sanitation is off the charts. It's like being in the 17th century. Having all those exotic animals together, killing them, mixing blood, consuming etc etc zoonotic nightmare waiting to happen (I.e. COVID). It will happen again, so yes I think it's totally reasonable to police it via sanctions much like we do nuclear armaments.

Make no mistake the real enemy here is communism. The Chinese people are a victim of it. China isn't our friend and we shouldn't treat them like they are. They lied about this, tried to cover it up and created an environment where people developed these habits and poor hygiene.

It needs to change and hoping it will isn't enough. We need to a.) send China the bill for COVID (world wide). B.) sanction China c.) stop being so reliant on them.

C.) is something that individuals need to do not just government. For years I have always looked to purchasing the non China equivalent even if it costs more.

Our entire world is now effected by Chinese lack of hygiene and it needs to stop. This isn't an issue of race, but rather habits. If there are wet markets similar to chinas in other areas they should be stopped too.
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      03-29-2020, 04:07 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
It less about what they eat vs how they interact with the animals. As you may or may not know culturally they value killing the animal as close to eating as possible. Have you seen wet markets before? I have. They are repulsive and reprehensible. The lack of hygiene and sanitation is off the charts. It's like being in the 17th century. Having all those exotic animals together, killing them, mixing blood, consuming etc etc zoonotic nightmare waiting to happen (I.e. COVID). It will happen again, so yes I think it's totally reasonable to police it via sanctions much like we do nuclear armaments.

Make no mistake the real enemy here is communism. The Chinese people are a victim of it. China isn't our friend and we shouldn't treat them like they are. They lied about this, tried to cover it up and created an environment where people developed these habits and poor hygiene.

It needs to change and hoping it will isn't enough. We need to a.) send China the bill for COVID (world wide). B.) sanction China c.) stop being so reliant on them.

C.) is something that individuals need to do not just government. For years I have always looked to purchasing the non China equivalent even if it costs more.

Our entire world is now effected by Chinese lack of hygiene and it needs to stop. This isn't an issue of race, but rather habits. If there are wet markets similar to chinas in other areas they should be stopped too.
On C aspect I'm making some in-rows, my wife just order a pair of nike which I frown on since I generally get the american made new balance sneakers and told her I didn't like the brand. She ask why, and I said the majority of their shoes are made in China. She said once the shoes arrives if she see made in china she will return them immediately. Since I normally handle the mailing in the household I'm planning on leaving a note saying refuse due to manufacture location. Perhaps if enough people do that we will see our large public companies move manufacture out of that region.
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      03-29-2020, 04:32 PM   #115
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Just a tangent, what is the world gonna do to the US when most antibiotics don’t work anymore because we created superbugs due to our overuse of them in farming and prescriptions. The farming use is out of hand to support our US fat ass eating habits.

https://www.idsociety.org/policy--ad...n_Agriculture/
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      03-29-2020, 07:14 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Mingwan View Post
You think we should go around policing other countries and dictate what they should and shouldn’t eat based on our western standards. You also seem to think it’s a good idea that the gov’t force private entities to produce in America given the circumstances.

You used to be a liberal, and now you’re a hardcore libertarian. Ok.......
I dont want people to die, let's come up with a solution to save lives!

You're too busy arguing my political leaning!
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      03-29-2020, 07:15 PM   #117
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China did such a good job containing the coronavirus, they infected the whole world!
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      03-29-2020, 07:16 PM   #118
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      03-29-2020, 10:52 PM   #119
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I am not sure about farming and prescriptions but for human medical care, there is far more liberal use of antibiotics outside US. We might be using 1st gen or 2nd gen here but elsewhere people are already using 4th and 5th gen, and for fairly innocuous conditions too. Yes, drug resistance is a problem, but it is more likely to arise outside US first. Eg, MDR TB (multi drug resistant). I think there is a version of TB for which even “MDR” does not truly reflect its resistance.

Antibiotic resistance in human infections develops because of over use and inappropriate use of these drugs in humans. Haven’t come across the notion before in clinical medicine that antibiotic use in animals results in resistance in human infections.


Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Just a tangent, what is the world gonna do to the US when most antibiotics don’t work anymore because we created superbugs due to our overuse of them in farming and prescriptions. The farming use is out of hand to support our US fat ass eating habits.

https://www.idsociety.org/policy--ad...n_Agriculture/
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      03-29-2020, 11:46 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Gesler View Post
I am not sure about farming and prescriptions but for human medical care, there is far more liberal use of antibiotics outside US. We might be using 1st gen or 2nd gen here but elsewhere people are already using 4th and 5th gen, and for fairly innocuous conditions too. Yes, drug resistance is a problem, but it is more likely to arise outside US first. Eg, MDR TB (multi drug resistant). I think there is a version of TB for which even “MDR” does not truly reflect its resistance.

Antibiotic resistance in human infections develops because of over use and inappropriate use of these drugs in humans. Haven’t come across the notion before in clinical medicine that antibiotic use in animals results in resistance in human infections.


Yea I found Minn post comical, my wife native country she literally walk into a pharmacy and was able to buy whatver antibiotic she wants, which I'm constantly telling her she shouldn't use without the doctor directly prescribing it. Which sounds alien to her since it so common there.
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      03-30-2020, 04:05 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Yea I found Minn post comical, my wife native country she literally walk into a pharmacy and was able to buy whatver antibiotic she wants, which I'm constantly telling her she shouldn't use without the doctor directly prescribing it. Which sounds alien to her since it so common there.
I don't know where your wife is from but having spent a lot of time in Thailand I know it is true there. You can buy almost any common antibiotic over the counter.

Used to be true also of pain relief. Tylenol with codeine was over the counter. That is no longer the case and any opiates are difficult to get anywhere but the hospital now.
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      03-30-2020, 06:14 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gesler View Post
I am not sure about farming and prescriptions but for human medical care, there is far more liberal use of antibiotics outside US. We might be using 1st gen or 2nd gen here but elsewhere people are already using 4th and 5th gen, and for fairly innocuous conditions too. Yes, drug resistance is a problem, but it is more likely to arise outside US first. Eg, MDR TB (multi drug resistant). I think there is a version of TB for which even “MDR” does not truly reflect its resistance.

Antibiotic resistance in human infections develops because of over use and inappropriate use of these drugs in humans. Haven’t come across the notion before in clinical medicine that antibiotic use in animals results in resistance in human infections.

The farming use has been controversial for decades now and not just because of antibiotic resistance. If a bug is resistant to an antibiotic it doesn't matter if it was overused in animals or humans, it became resistant due to overuse. There is quite a bit of research on the subject to look up if you are interested.

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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Yea I found Minn post comical, my wife native country she literally walk into a pharmacy and was able to buy whatver antibiotic she wants, which I'm constantly telling her she shouldn't use without the doctor directly prescribing it. Which sounds alien to her since it so common there.
Comical? The US just puts a middle man in place of direct sale. And most doctors in the US hand them out like candy and the patient not taking them as prescribed is also an issue (not finishing them). If they don't get the first doctor to agree to prescribe one, the second one they go to most likely will.

Point being this is an everyday/week/year problem and not the once in a while pandemic leading to a bigger problem for humans in the long run.
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      03-30-2020, 06:24 AM   #123
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why should anyone have to eat bat, and shark? just stupid, no reasoning behind it.
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      03-30-2020, 06:58 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post

Our entire world is now effected by Chinese lack of hygiene and it needs to stop. This isn't an issue of race, but rather habits. If there are wet markets similar to chinas in other areas they should be stopped too.
I think this is valid. Those who have acted with negligence throughout this spread should also face consequences.
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      03-30-2020, 08:18 AM   #125
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why should anyone have to eat bat, and shark? just stupid, no reasoning behind it.
Well, shark is just another fish. I do draw the line at sharks fin soup as they slaughter sharks and just harvest the fin. So I don't eat shark at all but again it is just a fish.

On bat, well there is bat and then there is bat. My wife grew up eating bats. The big ones. Flying Fox which only eat fruit. And they didn't cage them or anything. Just shot a few out of their fruit trees if they came to eat their fruit, cleaned them and threw it into a curry pot. Not unsanitary and just protein.

I have eaten shark. I would probably try the wife's version of fruit bat but never been to her country and the bats are now protected.
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      03-30-2020, 09:01 AM   #126
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Well, shark is just another fish. I do draw the line at sharks fin soup as they slaughter sharks and just harvest the fin. So I don't eat shark at all but again it is just a fish.

On bat, well there is bat and then there is bat. My wife grew up eating bats. The big ones. Flying Fox which only eat fruit. And they didn't cage them or anything. Just shot a few out of their fruit trees if they came to eat their fruit, cleaned them and threw it into a curry pot. Not unsanitary and just protein.

I have eaten shark. I would probably try the wife's version of fruit bat but never been to her country and the bats are now protected.
Couldn't be any worse than the liver and onions my parents made us eat as kids.
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      03-30-2020, 09:10 AM   #127
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Couldn't be any worse than the liver and onions my parents made us eat as kids.
I just had a micro-flashback nightmare. Thanks a lot.
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      03-30-2020, 09:12 AM   #128
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I just had a micro-flashback nightmare. Thanks a lot.
Revenge for all of the prancercise etc.

I forgot, the Deutsch side of my family used to hunt/eat squirrels when I was younger as well. Another thing I'd never touch again.
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      03-30-2020, 09:19 AM   #129
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Revenge for all of the prancercise etc.

I forgot, the Deutsch side of my family used to hunt/eat squirrels when I was younger as well. Another thing I'd never touch again.


I fully understand about the squirrels. Not a fan, either. My dad's side of the family loves them and I saw prep and how many parasites the little tree rats can carry. I was out permanently at that point.
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      03-30-2020, 09:42 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by jamesinaz View Post
Well, shark is just another fish. I do draw the line at sharks fin soup as they slaughter sharks and just harvest the fin. So I don't eat shark at all but again it is just a fish.

On bat, well there is bat and then there is bat. My wife grew up eating bats. The big ones. Flying Fox which only eat fruit. And they didn't cage them or anything. Just shot a few out of their fruit trees if they came to eat their fruit, cleaned them and threw it into a curry pot. Not unsanitary and just protein.

I have eaten shark. I would probably try the wife's version of fruit bat but never been to her country and the bats are now protected.
Couldn't be any worse than the liver and onions my parents made us eat as kids.
No Pate or Foie Gras?

I love French Cuisine
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      03-30-2020, 09:44 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
The farming use has been controversial for decades now and not just because of antibiotic resistance. If a bug is resistant to an antibiotic it doesn't matter if it was overused in animals or humans, it became resistant due to overuse. There is quite a bit of research on the subject to look up if you are interested.



Comical? The US just puts a middle man in place of direct sale. And most doctors in the US hand them out like candy and the patient not taking them as prescribed is also an issue (not finishing them). If they don't get the first doctor to agree to prescribe one, the second one they go to most likely will.

Point being this is an everyday/week/year problem and not the once in a while pandemic leading to a bigger problem for humans in the long run.
Your post was comical because your blaming the USA for over use of antibiotics when it occuring throught the entire planet.
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      03-30-2020, 09:52 AM   #132
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No Pate or Foie Gras?

I love French Cuisine
Nope, I'm out with that along with frog legs and duck in general for that matter.

French lamb stew/shanks I'm in along with many other french cuisine menu items.
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