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      04-29-2018, 06:57 PM   #89
dparm
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Originally Posted by redpriest View Post
Open Track is great if you don't plan on running any timing devices.
Can you explain? Do their policies have something explicit that says any sort of "timing" disqualifies the event from coverage? Would that mean that activating my car's built-in data recorder negates my coverage?
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      05-02-2018, 01:26 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Can you explain? Do their policies have something explicit that says any sort of "timing" disqualifies the event from coverage? Would that mean that activating my car's built-in data recorder negates my coverage?
It depends on how your track insurance policy is worded. The ones I have dealt with specifically define what an HPDE is, what a non-competitive time trial is, and what a competitive time trial is. With RLI, who I deal with, there are multiple degrees of coverage, with each one getting progressively more expensive.

In the track policy I have, they have very specific definitions:

"“Driver Education Event” means a safe driving program that includes classroom education, technical inspection, and
on-track exercises. The event’s primary purpose is to improve the “covered driver’s” driving skills in a safe learning
environment and under controlled conditions. A “driver education event” does not include “non-competitive time trials”
or “competitive time trials” unless endorsed.

10. “Non-Competitive Time Trial” means an on track exercise during which the lap times of “scheduled automobile” are
recorded for the personal use of the “covered driver”, but not for any competitive purposes.

11. “Competitive Time Trial” means an on track exercise during which the “covered driver” is competing against other
participants, either on the track simultaneously or via timed runs, where placement or time is used to determine prizes
of any sort or value, or where placement or time is used to accumulate points, standings, or rankings of any sort at the
event or in an ongoing competition or series."

Fortunately, in my case, I had competitive time trial coverage.

I would assume that the insurance companies would go to rigorous lengths to determine that you weren't cheating them, including checking your social media to see if you've posted videos with timing data, talking with the event organizer.

For me, I had to get a track incident report from the event organizer so they could determine coverage.

Many of the track organizers in California will post your timing data if you rent a transponder - that could be used to disqualify you, for example.
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      05-14-2018, 12:19 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpriest View Post
It depends on how your track insurance policy is worded. The ones I have dealt with specifically define what an HPDE is, what a non-competitive time trial is, and what a competitive time trial is. With RLI, who I deal with, there are multiple degrees of coverage, with each one getting progressively more expensive.

In the track policy I have, they have very specific definitions:

"“Driver Education Event” means a safe driving program that includes classroom education, technical inspection, and
on-track exercises. The event’s primary purpose is to improve the “covered driver’s” driving skills in a safe learning
environment and under controlled conditions. A “driver education event” does not include “non-competitive time trials”
or “competitive time trials” unless endorsed.

10. “Non-Competitive Time Trial” means an on track exercise during which the lap times of “scheduled automobile” are
recorded for the personal use of the “covered driver”, but not for any competitive purposes.

11. “Competitive Time Trial” means an on track exercise during which the “covered driver” is competing against other
participants, either on the track simultaneously or via timed runs, where placement or time is used to determine prizes
of any sort or value, or where placement or time is used to accumulate points, standings, or rankings of any sort at the
event or in an ongoing competition or series."

Fortunately, in my case, I had competitive time trial coverage.

I would assume that the insurance companies would go to rigorous lengths to determine that you weren't cheating them, including checking your social media to see if you've posted videos with timing data, talking with the event organizer.

For me, I had to get a track incident report from the event organizer so they could determine coverage.

Many of the track organizers in California will post your timing data if you rent a transponder - that could be used to disqualify you, for example.
Wow, there is so much good info in here. I get track insurance through Lockton Motorsports for every track event. I have never considered that there would be different types of coverage, or that certain activities (like timing one's laps) could possibly impact the insurance company's decision if I ever needed to file a claim. This hasn't really mattered that much for me, until now - starting with my next track weekend in a few weeks I am going to start actively timing myself and tracking my progress. I guess I should really do some homework about the different companies out there that offer this type of insurance, and also read up on what exactly is covered or not covered. Thanks for explaining all of this!
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      05-14-2018, 03:51 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamTime View Post
Wow, there is so much good info in here. I get track insurance through Lockton Motorsports for every track event. I have never considered that there would be different types of coverage, or that certain activities (like timing one's laps) could possibly impact the insurance company's decision if I ever needed to file a claim. This hasn't really mattered that much for me, until now - starting with my next track weekend in a few weeks I am going to start actively timing myself and tracking my progress. I guess I should really do some homework about the different companies out there that offer this type of insurance, and also read up on what exactly is covered or not covered. Thanks for explaining all of this!
This is Ryan Staub from Lockton Motorsports - just thought I'd chime in and save you the hassle of having to do homework on this. I've been instructing for ~15 years (Chief Instructor for KC Chapter of BMW CCA) and I'm a big believer in data acquisition. While I don't feel HPDE students/track day guys should be chasing lap times, data and lap times are often the best indicator of improvements you're making as a driver.

From the beginning, we've pushed our insurers to not have restrictive or exclusionary language related to timing. If you use Harry's Lap Timer, an AiM system, etc, that will not trigger any limitations or exclusions in coverage on our policy. We do offer Time Trial coverage as an option to your HPDE/Time Trial policy, but that option only needs to be selected when it is a true Time Trial event. If the event organizer administers timing and the event is competitive, you need to add the "time trial" option to your policy to ensure coverage with us.

I hope that helps. Have a great season and keep the shiny side up!

Ryan
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      05-14-2018, 04:36 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottagofast13 View Post
This is Ryan Staub from Lockton Motorsports - just thought I'd chime in and save you the hassle of having to do homework on this. I've been instructing for ~15 years (Chief Instructor for KC Chapter of BMW CCA) and I'm a big believer in data acquisition. While I don't feel HPDE students/track day guys should be chasing lap times, data and lap times are often the best indicator of improvements you're making as a driver.

From the beginning, we've pushed our insurers to not have restrictive or exclusionary language related to timing. If you use Harry's Lap Timer, an AiM system, etc, that will not trigger any limitations or exclusions in coverage on our policy. We do offer Time Trial coverage as an option to your HPDE/Time Trial policy, but that option only needs to be selected when it is a true Time Trial event. If the event organizer administers timing and the event is competitive, you need to add the "time trial" option to your policy to ensure coverage with us.

I hope that helps. Have a great season and keep the shiny side up!

Ryan
Cool! I super appreciate all the info, Ryan! Hope you have a great season as well
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      05-23-2018, 03:14 PM   #94
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Good news - OpenTrack does not considering self-timing to be competition! If you're doing lots of events per year, their flat full year coverage and multiple car policy is a no brainer to me IMO. They are also the only ones that I can see carry liability insurance along with their policy too.

Just finishing up my RLI track insurance claim and the process has been completely painless. Would recommend them for time-trial coverage all day.
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