Oil Analysis Back. It's Terrible

[M_Three]

Hi Fellow M3 Lovers. So I have my 08 E93 for about 3 months now. Great car. Love it. It had 42,000 miles when I got her from a local Mercedes Dealer here in Florida. It is a like new piece and an easy purchased for me considering how little it was driven.

So I decided to have the oil checked at blackstone just as a baseline check. The results were HORRIBLE coming in at 20 PPM of lead. Highest I have seen in the reports listed on this site from many of you guys.

The engine has no noises whatsoever and as an automotive pro for 39 years i know what bearing knock sounds like. This engine does not have any of that. It runs like a raped ape and revs incredibly smooth.

But, 20 PPM isn't something I am comfortable with considering the history of this engine.

So here is the question that prompted this thread. I got an extended 36,000 mile warrantee when I got the car. My thoughts were to have my buddies at a Euroshop call the insurance company and attempt to get the bearings changed now... before they might be faced with a $25,000 bill.

Do you think the extended warrantee company will take a preempted approach and save themselves a huge bill later?

[cclinard1]

I'd say zero chance any warranty will do that. In my experience with my extended warranty company, they don't fix anything just because it's a known issue or it might fail. They wait until it actually breaks and there is failure or codes that indicate the issue and then there is justification.

[D_M]

M_Three,

Are you not in a unique situation with 39 years of experience and buddies with a shop? Maybe you don't wrench anymore, so bartering isn't an option. At least you'll probably be able to supervise the work and ensure that your baby is handled with kid gloves.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by cclinard1

I'd say zero chance any warranty will do that. In my experience with my extended warranty company, they don't fix anything just because it's a known issue or it might fail. They wait until it actually breaks and there is failure or codes that indicate the issue and then there is justification.

Agreed, zero chance. They won't be paying out $25k. If the engine blows they will source a used engine for about ~$10k plus labor. I'd drive it for 5k mi and do another oil analysis. If it's still bad then go ahead and replace the bearings for peace of mind. The warranty has you covered if something happens in the meantime.

[Yoko22R]

My 08 was at 36 PPM with 27k miles at a slightly higher than normal interval of 10,700mi. Had the bearings changed two weeks later.

[tdott]

Welcome!

How was the copper levels from your report? Is there a time period on your 36k warranty?
I doubt any warranty will cover preventative maintenance which is what changing the rod bearings would be classified as.

[EnVe46]

While I doubt they will do a preemptive change, it's worth a call to create to record and let them know you're documenting the oil analysis. Then, I'd keep a close eye on noises when it's cold and when it starts to make noise bring it to your shop. Let a shop determine your bearings are failing and see what they say. It's either replace them now or replace the shortblock when you puke a rod out of the block.

[pbonsalb]

I doubt a warranty company will do any preemptive work. The motor might keep going until the warranty expires. But if it does not, you have the inconvenience of hassling with the warranty company and having your car down for a while -- who knows how long (some have been without their car for months when the engine has failed). But since you are a pro, you could change the bearings for $500 in parts and a day of your time.

[Dr. Dre]

I have an extended warranty. I did the rod bearing myself and tried to get reimbursed for the cost. They declined it.

However, there is no guarantee that if your engine fails that they won't deny the replacement of the engine. Extended warranty companies are notorious for denying claims. Are you going to fight them in court.

Spend the $2500 to get the bearing replaced. It's unlikely they are going to buy brand new parts from BMW and build you a new engine. If they decide to cover the repairs it's more likely they will find a used engine. Who know the condition of the used engine.

If your car runs well. Spend the $2500 to replace the bearings. I bought mine with 85K. I had MRF engineering do the bearings within 2 days of my purchasing the car.

I would also recommend that you read your extended warranty contract.

[carenthuziast]

Generally, warranties only cover up to the value of the car, which diminishes yearly. Is a '08 E9X with 42K miles worth $25k?

If your engine blows and they replace the engine for $25K, you might not have anything left in your warranty f your car is only worth $25K.

[zipper228]

Consider this too: even if the bearings go while you're still under warranty AND the warranty company kindly steps up and replaces your engine with another used one (that may or may not have been treated worse than your current one), there is no way to determine that the "new" engine won't be subject to a similar failure on down the road, possibly after the warranty coverage has run out. I think the fact is that if you plan to keep the car longer term, bearings have to be addressed eventually. Doing it sooner than later might save some headaches.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by M_Three

Hi Fellow M3 Lovers. So I have my 08 E93 for about 3 months now. Great car. Love it. It had 42,000 miles when I got her from a local Mercedes Dealer here in Florida. It is a like new piece and an easy purchased for me considering how little it was driven.

So I decided to have the oil checked at blackstone just as a baseline check. The results were HORRIBLE coming in at 20 PPM of lead. Highest I have seen in the reports listed on this site from many of you guys.

The engine has no noises whatsoever and as an automotive pro for 39 years i know what bearing knock sounds like. This engine does not have any of that. It runs like a raped ape and revs incredibly smooth.

But, 20 PPM isn't something I am comfortable with considering the history of this engine.

So here is the question that prompted this thread. I got an extended 36,000 mile warrantee when I got the car. My thoughts were to have my buddies at a Euroshop call the insurance company and attempt to get the bearings changed now... before they might be faced with a $25,000 bill.

Do you think the extended warrantee company will take a preempted approach and save themselves a huge bill later?

All you have is a single reading from a single sample -- the whole point of UOA is to establish a baseline and trends. I wouldn't panic yet. Keep driving the car and take another sample every 1,000 miles to see where it goes. You can do this with a turkey baster in the oil filter housing.

And no, I don't see any warranty company (or even BMW) pre-emptively replacing bearings because of a single oil analysis result. Typically you have to wait until something fails.

[Get lit]

Op... one option you have is to go ahead and tear down the engine and check your bearing clearance. If it is not within spec then you will have justification to file a claim with your warranty company to replace the rod bearings. If they are within spec then the bill is on you and you can either put everything back together or go ahead and replace the rod bearings.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

Generally, warranties only cover up to the value of the car, which diminishes yearly. Is a '08 E9X with 42K miles worth $25k?

If your engine blows and they replace the engine for $25K, you might not have anything left in your warranty f your car is only worth $25K.

A replacement engine is not $25k. The warranty company would source a used engine with similar mileage. Even refurb engines direct from BMW are less than $25k and you can't buy a brand new S65 anymore. Could they find a reason to deny the claim? Sure. But that reason would not be repair cost exceeding the vehicle's value.

Originally Posted by Get lit

Op... one option you have is to go ahead and tear down the engine and check your bearing clearance. If it is not within spec then you will have justification to file a claim with your warranty company to replace the rod bearings. If they are within spec then the bill is on you and you can either put everything back together or go ahead and replace the rod bearings.

My warranty company would deny this claim. You would need pre-approval from them to start taking things apart to diagnose an issue. My dealer found that out the hard way...

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by dparm

All you have is a single reading from a single sample -- the whole point of UOA is to establish a baseline and trends. I wouldn't panic yet. Keep driving the car and take another sample every 1,000 miles to see where it goes. You can do this with a turkey baster in the oil filter housing.

A lot of missing info in the OP. How old was the oil--when was the last oil change, including filter? Was an OEM filter used? How many miles did the oil have on it when you did the oil analysis. Like the guy above, I wouldn't panic over a single reading. Although, I'd probably wait for 5k miles to pass until I took another sample. If the car sat on the MB lot for some time, you can bet that someone drove the car without any care to warm up--they probably started it up and proceeded to beat on it while cold.

Now that you have it and can drive it properly, put some miles on the car and see how things look.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

A replacement engine is not $25k. The warranty company would source a used engine with similar mileage. Even refurb engines direct from BMW are less than $25k and you can't buy a brand new S65 anymore. Could they find a reason to deny the claim? Sure. But that reason would not be repair cost exceeding the vehicle's value.



My warranty company would deny this claim. You would need pre-approval from them to start taking things apart to diagnose an issue. My dealer found that out the hard way...

Sure, the engine itself is not $25K, but now let's factor in labor.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

Sure, the engine itself is not $25K, but now let's factor in labor.

Still not even close. The used engine will be around $10k and labor will not be anywhere near $15k.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Still not even close. The used engine will be around $10k and labor will not be anywhere near $15k.

Usually a used S65 is crap and a waste of money !

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Usually a used S65 is crap and a waste of money !

Tell that to the warranty company who is covering the bill. I doubt they will care.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Still not even close. The used engine will be around $10k and labor will not be anywhere near $15k.

http://store.langracing.com/remanufa...core-required/

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

http://store.langracing.com/remanufa...core-required/

Ok, so? The warranty company will absolutely NOT cover that, it's irrelevant in this context. They would be buying something more like this, but through their own network of engine/parts suppliers so it would likely be even cheaper for them (~$6-8k):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E90-E92-...hZnyQV&vxp=mtr

EDIT: Post 414 in this thread will tell you how much a 3rd party warranty was prepared to cover for a complete engine replacement (parts and labor). Keep in mind this was 2 years ago, the cost of the used engine is lower now.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...119912&page=19

[OzCoE92]

Mike Benvo was selling a rebuilt motor with new bearings for $11k in the classifieds a while back. I'd take another sample in 1,000 miles or so, and if the numbers are still not good, consider getting a used motor from a forum member here. One sample wouldn't be enough for me to rip apart a perfectly good running engine especially with those low miles.