DIY: S65 Throttle Actuator

[Gloggman]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

A faulty TPS can certainly put the car in limp mode. If the DME doesn't know the position of the throttle, it can't calculate fueling or anything else that requires position input.

It does sound like an actuator issue, but if you removed and cleaned the TPS you need to perform the throttle valve actuator test in ISTA-D. It's a hall sensor and all adaptations need to be relearned.

Do I have to have ISTA-D ($$ dealer software) to perform the "throttle valve actuator test" or can this be done with Carly?

Sorry I'm a bit new to the Carly and some of the forum lingo.
Thx,

[deansbimmer]

Carly isn't going to be able to do that. Ista-D is the gold standard for full service on these cars. see if someone near you has it that is willing to spend a few minutes with it on your car.

[HalfSoul]

Hey all! So I've been experiencing intermittent limp mode! :/ I have ran the codes on a Schwaben scan tool (OBD II scan tool) and get the following codes:

(on a scan)
U1151
P161F

(On another occurrence scan)
P1628

I don't get all three codes on a single scan, and was wondering if its a TA (throttle actuator) thats going bad, or maybe some sort of electrical fault?

Please Help! Thank you all!!

[M3MPH1S]

Originally Posted by Gloggman

Thanks for the replies.
I agree a bad TPS would probably cause all sort of fuel mixture problems.

I should just get a new one. Probably well spent $40 to eliminate TPS being bad.
I'll probably end up getting a new TA unit also. After looking at many posts on this issue problem seems to reoccur fairly soon after replacing gears and MOSFETs etc. If it's a track car no big deal, but if you get stuck in limp mode 500 miles away from home $1200 is worth it and piece of mind.
At least better than +$3000 from stealership.
I'll send an update asap.

This is a well known by bmw (and expensive to fix!) problems is really something they should be held accountable for. Even if out of warranty...


Good news is finding this cool forum and getting familiar with scanner tool...

FYI, look into buying the replacements from FCP Euro. Not only are they $100 cheaper each unit, but they also offer a lifetime warranty on them, so if they ever break again, you're covered.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...do-13627838085

[RajLives]

Just wanted to mention got the same issue at 50k in mdm mode at the track sadly (first time with e92). Turning car of and on helped for a bit then started happening more frequently especially in mdm. OBD showed bank 2. After research including this great thread ended up going to http://www.rebuild.org.uk/ and bought them from Jason Bayliff.

My BMW tech (indy) warned me to make sure that not only the gears were good but also the electronics. Jason assured me they were and offers a lifetime warranty. I also went as far as to ask the return rate. His response "I have had 4 this year, and 7 last year. Less than 0.5%".

I opted for the deposit service so I could take the car to my shop with replacement parts. I received the parts to NY in 3 days - note the time diff can add a day in shipping I believe. Put 100 miles so far and it's running great.

Labor ran me about $400 so all in under $1100 which less than the parts alone new. No brainer imo.

[Gloggman]

So, after replacing gears, burnt mosfet etc. I had perfect idle now but still lots of bank 2 TA related error codes. Took it to BMW tech with BMW analyser and determined TA "motor" was bad. Ended up getting a new TA for Bank2 and left Bank1 TA with rebuilt gears. Car runs perfect.
Moral of the story I think is:
I'm not convinced it was the gears at all. It was possible a "burnt" mosfet caused by bad motor. MOSTFETs like this usually work or not, nothing in between.
I wanted a reliable car and not worrying about getting stuck somewhere in limpmode with people in the car going to some event....

All good! Now I have a Carly and a ODB2 module to play with...ha, ha.


Thx for the messages from forum people!

[Lunker325]

Wanted to add my experience here as well. Was heading home after work and the dreaded error lights started popping up on the dash, knew right away what it was, but ran the codes anyway, bank 1 TA was bad. I cleared the codes and shut the car off and restarted, but the codes and error lights came back up. Repeated this a couple of times and still could not make them go away, had to drive home in limp mode. Only around 10 miles so not a big deal. Parked the car and decided on my options. $600 for the FCP Euro part (the $500 VDO is indefinitely back ordered right now), or a little more than that to get 2 refurbished units. I went with Abdul at M Power Motorsports and glad that I did. He sent out the 2 refurbed units quickly and the car is up an running as good as ever. Love the local access Abdul has on this side of the pond, he kept me up to date on the status until they showed up at my door. Great to have this option available. I ended up replacing the bank 2 TA as well to avoid having another limp mode situation while driving.

One thing I did notice prior to the failure was the idle was a bit funky for a few weeks prior to it going. The sound/RPM was just a bit different, but not enough to notice anything on the dash, but I could tell it was not normal. The idle seems to be normal now and all is well.

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by Lunker325

Wanted to add my experience here as well. Was heading home after work and the dreaded error lights started popping up on the dash, knew right away what it was, but ran the codes anyway, bank 1 TA was bad. I cleared the codes and shut the car off and restarted, but the codes and error lights came back up. Repeated this a couple of times and still could not make them go away, had to drive home in limp mode. Only around 10 miles so not a big deal. Parked the car and decided on my options. $600 for the FCP Euro part (the $500 VDO is indefinitely back ordered right now), or a little more than that to get 2 refurbished units. I went with Abdul at M Power Motorsports and glad that I did. He sent out the 2 refurbed units quickly and the car is up an running as good as ever. Love the local access Abdul has on this side of the pond, he kept me up to date on the status until they showed up at my door. Great to have this option available. I ended up replacing the bank 2 TA as well to avoid having another limp mode situation while driving.

One thing I did notice prior to the failure was the idle was a bit funky for a few weeks prior to it going. The sound/RPM was just a bit different, but not enough to notice anything on the dash, but I could tell it was not normal. The idle seems to be normal now and all is well.

Thanks for the review. I'm glad everything worked out!

Wish me luck. Currently backordered 33 units. Shipped out 15 yesterday and hopefully 15 more by next Tuesday.

[C5Z06toE90]

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

FYI, look into buying the replacements from FCP Euro. Not only are they $100 cheaper each unit, but they also offer a lifetime warranty on them, so if they ever break again, you're covered.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...do-13627838085

I've been enduring and hesitating for a couple of months and today I see fcpeuro has them listed for $509! This seems almost too good to be true so if you're on the fence, I'd say go now!

On a related note, are there any other services that would make sense to do while changing them out?

Thanks and good luck.

Alex, long time lurker.

[matte]

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

FYI, look into buying the replacements from FCP Euro. Not only are they $100 cheaper each unit, but they also offer a lifetime warranty on them, so if they ever break again, you're covered.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...do-13627838085

This is amazing, had I known about these I'd have gone this route. Originally I had units repaired by Jason which failed, and there was no warranty from him then. He'd recommended buying some off ebay and swapping the electronics. I did. Same problem, so gave up bit bullet and put in two new ones from dealer. Expensive and time consuming misadventure.

Having a lifetime warranty on these parts is no brainer, as they can repeatedly fail. Bmw did not fix the defect, issues aren't for high mileage cars. Lots of people saw them 15k and under, just a warranty repair back then.


TLR - buy these as even bmw oem is 2 year warranty only, and if you're keeping the car, expect em to fail again.

[M3MPH1S]

Originally Posted by C5Z06toE90

I've been enduring and hesitating for a couple of months and today I see fcpeuro has them listed for $509! This seems almost too good to be true so if you're on the fence, I'd say go now!

On a related note, are there any other services that would make sense to do while changing them out?

Thanks and good luck.

Alex, long time lurker.

-Fuel tank breather valve if you've ever had the bouncing idle issue

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1273927


-Thermostat and temp sensor as preventative maintenance if you're higher mileage

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=928400

[C5Z06toE90]

M3MPH1S,

Thanks for the insight! Hoping to diy this weekend.

Alex

[M3MPH1S]

Originally Posted by C5Z06toE90

M3MPH1S,

Thanks for the insight! Hoping to diy this weekend.

Alex

And just noticed you're in Montgomery. I'm just a stone's throw away in Auburn. Let me know if you ever need any help, we can arrange coming to one city or the other.

[Abdul]

Originally Posted by M3MPH1S

-Fuel tank breather valve if you've ever had the bouncing idle issue

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1273927


-Thermostat and temp sensor as preventative maintenance if you're higher mileage

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=928400

Good suggestions. Perhaps he should take care of the valve cover gaskets while he's at it as well.

[Abdul]

Just wanted to shed some light on this. I really don't want to go back and forth regarding what's better and what's not.

We all know that the OEM/VDO design for the Throttle Actuator is total garbage. I've sold over 185 units in the last 3 months. even though I appreciate the business but that's ridiculous! How bad are these damn things? I've had ///M owners with as low as 23k miles buy units from me. 23k miles! On an average, the miles were ranged from 40k to 55k. Highest I'vs seen was 121k miles. Majority of them were already opened up and upgraded to newer gears by the owners only to fail again after a few months. So changing just the gears is not a very good place to invest hard earned money. Don't do it.

The design flaw is not just in the gears. The design flaw is in almost every electrical component on the circuit board. The components are graded for very low temperatures. Of course, this ends up frying the motor as well. The design flaw is almost similar to the electrical components on the chronic water pumps on the BMW turbo cars. (May start rebuilding these in the near future since nobody has done it yet). Just ask any turbo owner how frustrating those are.

We pretty much unanimously have agreed that the OEM design for the RB's is flawed. Hence, it doesn't matter if someone provides a lifetime warranty on them, we won't buy them due to their design flaw and will look for other options. So why are we interested in an OEM/VDO throttle actuator that we all unanimously agree has many design flaws?

P.S. Thinking outside the box, it might be a neat idea to buy new units, open them up, upgrade all the materials inside of them, including the circuit board, and then sell them. But would it really be worth it for the price at that point? What would be the difference between that unit and a used unit we do a complete rebuild of that would cost much less than an upgraded new OEM unit? Still thinking.....

Finally, please don't make this a xyz vs xyz discussion. Everyone should have the freedom of purchasing whatever they want from wherever they want. But we have a duty to highlight facts for the ///M family.

[R8T3D_M]

This write up was super helpful! Just replaced mine last night. took me about 2 hours(only had to replace bank one. Car has 116k on it and both throttle actuators were replaced at 89k. It appears that the gears are not the issue with these because what mine did was shear the actuator rod inside the actuator at only 27k miles on it (have to be joking me) Either way car feels much better now that its running on all 8 cylinders again.

[哇靠M3]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Actuators can be found brand new online for 460$. I pay $390 for them. They’ve come down in price a good bit now, they’re no longer a prohibitively expensive item.

Where can you find them for $390-$460 New? OEM / bmw factory?

I'm in the market, should I replace both? P210a fault code is saying bank 2.

[M3MPH1S]

Originally Posted by 哇靠M3

Where can you find them for $390-$460 New? OEM / bmw factory?

I'm in the market, should I replace both? P210a fault code is saying bank 2.

No idea where he's buying them that cheap, but the best place to get them is FCP Euro since they offer lifetime warranty

And still not terrible at $543/ea

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...do-13627838085

[哇靠M3]

Would anyone of you pay $800 for labor to install these?

[drrust]

Originally Posted by 哇靠M3

Would anyone of you pay $800 for labor to install these?

No!

This should take 2 to 4 hours to complete. Someone who has done it multiple times maybe able to do it in under 2 hours. Even a 4 hours that is a $200/hr rate.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by drrust

No!

This should take 2 to 4 hours to complete. Someone who has done it multiple times maybe able to do it in under 2 hours. Even a 4 hours that is a $200/hr rate.

The dealers around here charge $200-300 an hour for labor so the price is about right given that rate.

[drrust]

Originally Posted by Z K

The dealers around here charge $200-300 an hour for labor so the price is about right given that rate.

Take it to an independent shop. If you're in the Bay Area there are supposedly very good shops near you. You may want to check out Steve Dinan's Carbahn shops. $300 for labor sounds extremely high.