E92 M3 ZCP in SCCA Solo F Street

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

why DNS on Jeff's third runs both days?

First day he might have felt very comfortable with his lead? The 2nd day he had no need to do the final run since he had already won as the other close drivers had already done their 3rd runs (so I assume that's why he didn't bother).

[sgreer78]

That's one way to put it...

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by sgreer78

That's one way to put it...

Hey, it's all supposition since I obviously have zero idea. Care to elaborate?

[z3papa]

Originally Posted by sgreer78

That's one way to put it...

LOL. In all fairness and despite the drama, Jeff performed and that's really what it comes down to it.

[CSBM5]

Oh well, I guess whatever happened is secret. Sorry for speculating about the DNS and apparently stepping on toes...

[sgreer78]

No toe stepping, just stuff that doesn't need to be brought up again. The horse is dead. If you really care, PM me.

Anyway, here are my runs. Good enough for 4th against a very tough field. I see two pretty costly mistakes on the west, but not a lot I can do about it now.

[CSBM5]

Congrats on the trophy in one heck of a competitive class!

275/35-18 RE71R square?

[sgreer78]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Congrats on the trophy in one heck of a competitive class!

275/35-18 RE71R square?

Yes

[PedalFaster]

There's been some prior discussion on the merits of the stock EDC shocks versus fancy high-end monotubes (MCS, etc.).

I'm a bit suspicious of five- to seven-year-old OE shocks no matter how good they were when new. I'm not keen to spend thousands on race shocks, either, though.

Has anyone tried more performance-oriented, but still off-the-shelf, shocks on a ZCP for autocross use? From what I can see, Bilstein has several options, but Koni has nothing for the car.

[Richbot]

P1 and P4 at nats were on old EDC shocks and struts

I think, for this class, there's room to improve but that's the cold hard fact you have to evaluate when deciding to spend the money or not. I would spend it on rod bearings or tires And I had MCS 2-way remotes on my car when it was in AS/FS so it's not as if I wasn't willing to throw down back then, but my car also didn't come with EDC and is a 2008, so it doesn't really bear on F Street

I have Bilstein B8 non-adjustable, non-electronic rears on my car right now. They ain't gonna get the job done any better than stock. No idea how their damptronic systems would work, if even legal

[PedalFaster]

Thanks. I hear you about the return on investment on shocks being questionable. My only hesitation is that I'd be looking at a car with 70k miles on it -- 7-year-old shocks with 25k miles on them are one thing, but I imagine 70k shocks might be another.

My read of 13.5.A.7 is that Bilstein's electronic shocks would be legal assuming they met the dimensional requirements:

On cars with available electronically-controlled shocks, aftermarket electronic shocks may be substituted but may only be controlled by an OE shock control unit and may not contain independent or additional control logic within the shock itself. No additional electronic modifications can be made to facilitate the installation of aftermarket electronic shocks, and the OE controller may not be modified or re-programmed.

On that note, do you recall the B8s differing dimensionally from the stockers in any meaningful way? B6s are generally the dimensions as OE, give or take, but I thought B8s are typically a bit shorter since they're made for use with lowering springs.

And holy cow are rod bearing replacements expensive.

[Richbot]

I will check when I pull them off and put the Sachs coilovers on bexause im a fickle mistress

I want to say the b8’s has slightly less droop but the same body length as stock non-edc shocks. But I need to check

[SkysTheLimit]

Originally Posted by PedalFaster

Thanks. I hear you about the return on investment on shocks being questionable. My only hesitation is that I'd be looking at a car with 70k miles on it -- 7-year-old shocks with 25k miles on them are one thing, but I imagine 70k shocks might be another.

My read of 13.5.A.7 is that Bilstein's electronic shocks would be legal assuming they met the dimensional requirements:



On that note, do you recall the B8s differing dimensionally from the stockers in any meaningful way? B6s are generally the dimensions as OE, give or take, but I thought B8s are typically a bit shorter since they're made for use with lowering springs.

And holy cow are rod bearing replacements expensive.

I was P7 with significant room for improvement with driver mod on 70k OEM shocks.
Also would add that Daddio got 1st PAX at a local with said 70k OEM shocks.

[Richbot]

AND you have the heavy fat slow underdog Pig sedan that belongs in GS and not the fast carbon fiber roof svelte lightweight overdog coupe that belongs in BS

[PedalFaster]

Ok, so what I'm hearing is that I should leave the shocks alone. Roger that.

[z3papa]

Originally Posted by PedalFaster

Ok, so what I'm hearing is that I should leave the shocks alone. Roger that.

IMO -- this has yet to be explored. Richbot had some trick MCS DA FS legal dampers which he sold which he said made an appreciable difference. I've got another brand of DA units which need a refresh/rebuild. No one has tried the Bilstein B6 EDC units (which now appear to be available again)in FS. It may be more can be realized any of these but as of yet, it hasn't been a necessity, I think for lower mileage trailer queens such as Jeff's, the ZCP EDC units may be fine. For higher mileage EDC units, either buying new ($$$$$) or looking at alternatives may be worthwhile. My car has 86k.

[ObviousLynx]

I'm planning to purchase a set of B6 damptronics this winter. I know it doesn't help the discussion at the moment but in a years time I'll know for sure if it was a worthwhile upgrade for a very tired EDC suspension with 116k miles on it. Also upgrading front swaybar and adding some RE71's. I don't think I'd be able to run a 275 square setup as I'm limited with wheel width as my car isn't ZCP so I'm planning to run 255's and 275's. I've already cracked the top 10 this year bone stock and running S-04 pole position street tires. Hoping to be super competitive locally next year with the mods I'm going to do!

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by z3papa

IMO -- this has yet to be explored. Richbot had some trick MCS DA FS legal dampers which he sold which he said made an appreciable difference. I've got another brand of DA units which need a refresh/rebuild. No one has tried the Bilstein B6 EDC units (which now appear to be available again)in FS. It may be more can be realized any of these but as of yet, it hasn't been a necessity, I think for lower mileage trailer queens such as Jeff's, the ZCP EDC units may be fine. For higher mileage EDC units, either buying new ($$$$$) or looking at alternatives may be worthwhile. My car has 86k.

My car's a 2008, doesn't have EDC, and I was running on 295/315 Hoosiers (and I did it when the car was classed in AS, because hey why not build it and see if they come, and my results helped get the car moved to FS, meaning it was too slow, sooooooo )

That set is a still autocrossing somewhere though, I believe on an FS car, but lost track of them

I'm old enough to remember when whether or not the ZCP or non-ZCP was the car to have was an open question because the non-ZCP could run 18's legally and therefore fit wider fronts (19" hoosier option maxed out with the 265/30 and still ate fender liners) iirc 295's on an 8.5 vs. 265's on a 9 was over half an inch wider, and negated the CG advantage of the lower ZCP springs because the 295's and 315's were shorter tires

And then Street happened and we all lived happily ever after, lol

I think the best reason to take apart a perfectly good EDC suspension is to replace bumpstops. They get a workout

[PedalFaster]

Ok, I now own an E92 ZCP. I found a set of used Apex wheels, and y'all have at least talked me into running the car on the stock shocks for at least a few events to see how they work.

Last but not least for the time being: a sway bar. I see people talking about running the Dinan bar (which is godawful expensive, and which apparently needs different endlinks), the Hotchkis bar (which is supposedly 32 mm, but the Hotchkis site doesn't say), and the Eibach bar (which is smaller, which I don't like since I like a stable rear end).

Has anyone run the aFe bar? It's 32 mm like the Dinan, costs around the same as the Hotchkis, and appears to come with beefier mounts than either. No endlinks, though.

[sgreer78]

The endlinks that come with the Dinan can be made to work with about 20min and a couple tools. I run my bar soft and the rear end is plenty stable.

[z3papa]

I've run one event full stiff and it wasn't hateful but still requires a little operator adjustment. Probably some alignment change as well.

[mobilenemo]

Originally Posted by sgreer78

Yeah, I cut around 1" off, drilled the hole deeper and tapped with a 10x1.5. Pretty easy and saved some money. I may actually go back and cut a little more off, though I'll doubt I'll even need them shorter because I don't plan on running the bar full stiff as I like the car to turn.

I recently bought a new dinan bar off another member. Would cutting off 1.5" allow the entire soft to stiff range to be used or would more be needed?

For drilling, powerdrill with the endlink in a vice should work? Thanks