Track forum general chit chat.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by jktx

Plan to move up to a 305 square setup shortly - would an 18" x 11" wheel work or is 10.5" a safer choice? JRZ Pro, will go to a 5" spring & will run as much camber as needed. Would like to run the same offsets - will run spacers if necessary as well.

As Apex and others have said, for track usage I would be looking at what the tire manufacturer suggests. For those scrubs that someone suggested, they typically specify one ideal width.

FWIW, I run 315s on 18x11 (on my Corvette).

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by dparm

As Apex and others have said, for track usage I would be looking at what the tire manufacturer suggests. For those scrubs that someone suggested, they typically specify one ideal width.

FWIW, I run 315s on 18x11 (on my Corvette).

I'll finally have some 18x12's & 18x13's for your Vette soon

- Ryan

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I do run a 3mm spacer in front, but with 305 DH, it's mainly due to trying to keep away from the supercharger intake (which sin't working so well......). If I don't have a supercharger, I believe that I could run a 305 DH without the spacer and still be ok with the spring perch given how I've setup my JRZ. But as I recall, I needed the 3mm spacer for the R1S because it was just too close. JRZ said you need at least 2-3mm between the tire/rim and the spring perch due to flex.

Regarding my JRZ setup, I went with a 5" spring and removed the helper spring so I could raise the spring perch high enough to get it out of the way of the tires. And I run max camber----as much as the Vorshlag allow.

Again much appreciated. Figured would be going that direction with the 5" spring & max camber - thanks!

If I remember correctly you are running the Essex AP radical 9668 up front, right? Obviously no fitment issue with the Titans?

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Dogbone gave some great feedback. Although mounting 305 track/race compounds on an 18x11" square wheel configuration is marginally superior in the right drivers hands, it will take some trial and error up front to prevent contact under suspension compression. You are simply running out of real estate under the front fenders. Running a short 5" linear spring to get the lower spring perch as high as possible (so it sits above the tire rather than next to it) without sabotaging your ride height in combination with a healthy amount of negative camber is necessary for starters, and although this setup is feasible, an 18x10.5" ET22 provides enough sidewall support for 295 and 305 tires and is much easier to work with.

We specifically lowered our 10.5" wheel offsets to ET22 (from ET27) to ensure E9X M3 owners had the opportunity to run a 10.5" rotatable square setup without the need for spacers. If you are using 10.5" wheels with a higher offset, strong chance you will need small spacers to clear your struts. Our two newer wheel designs (SM-10 & FL-5) are available in these specifications. 18x10.5" is also a very popular rear wheel specification for enthusiast running staggered fitments, and the lower ET22 offset results in a more flush fitment (again, so spacers aren't needed).

18x10.5" ET22 with 295/30-18 Yokohama A052's is the perfect upgrade from the common 18x10" ET25 with 275/35-18 NT01 setup. Once you have plateaued on the Yokos, you can upgrade to a wider compound without worrying about spending more on wheels.

- Ryan

Awesome Ryan, thanks for the info. Now hurry up and sell me some of your forged wheels already. I've got two sets of arc8's & a set of ec7's that need replacing - don't make me go buy wheels from someone else

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jktx

Again much appreciated. Figured would be going that direction with the 5" spring & max camber - thanks!

If I remember correctly you are running the Essex AP radical 9668 up front, right? Obviously no fitment issue with the Titans?



Awesome Ryan, thanks for the info. Now hurry up and sell me some of your forged wheels already. I've got two sets of arc8's & a set of ec7's that need replacing - don't make me go buy wheels from someone else

Sure, no problem. (Don't forget about the helper spring. It takes up a fair amount of space. Without a helper spring, under full droop the spring can sit "loose", but in the 4 years I've been running without the helper spring, I believe I've heard the spring re-seat once.)

Yes, 9668 up front. No brake fitment issues with either Titan-7 10.5" or Apex ARC-8 10.5".

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Sure, no problem. (Don't forget about the helper spring. It takes up a fair amount of space. Under full droop the spring can sit "loose", but in the 4 years I've been running without the helper spring, I believe I've heard the spring re-seat once.)

Yes, 9668 up front. No brake fitment issues with either Titan-7 10.5" or Apex ARC-8 10.5".

Right, and as a sidenote Hyperco helpers + Genesis spring guides add ~1/2" of stack height, while Eibach helpers + guides add ~1" of stack height.

Originally Posted by jktx

Awesome Ryan, thanks for the info. Now hurry up and sell me some of your forged wheels already. I've got two sets of arc8's & a set of ec7's that need replacing - don't make me go buy wheels from someone else

It's all hands on deck at APEX, we'll have info for you soon. Thanks for your support thus far!

- Ryan

[dparm]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

I'll finally have some 18x12's & 18x13's for your Vette soon

- Ryan

Unfortunately, I already ordered my Forgelines. Went 18x11 and 18x12.5. Thanks anyway!

[dparm]

Can't remember if I posted these, but here are the vids from my COTA outing. Might wanna jump to the second half of the video when I finally get clear of the traffic and start cranking out my fast laps. Both of these are the same session, just recorded simultaneously on the GoPro and PDR. My fastest time was 2:35.67 which I'm pretty happy with for my first outing there -- but I had to be a bit conservative since I was still learning it.

I'll have to find the session when I drag raced a Blancpain GT Challenge race car (AMG GT) down the back straight and got annihilated.

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by dparm

Unfortunately, I already ordered my Forgelines. Went 18x11 and 18x12.5. Thanks anyway!

Nice. 315/30-18 / 335/30-18?

- Ryan

[Richbot]

There's also nothing wrong with running a 275/35-18 on those 10.5's. Will still work better than on a 10 or 9.5, and ought to be an easy clear on most suspensions

So shut up and take my forged wheel group buy money (again)

[SAMM3Y]

A couple of years ago, I went on a track day to Thunderhill in Northern California where they were running bikes and cars on the same day, different sessions obviously, but I can't remember the name of the club that put it on. Any ideas? Cheers...

[OG Shark]

Is the M driving course worth going to? Got the voucher for the one day course but would probably try to see if I can upgrade to at least two days. If worth it then which one - Thermal or Spartanburg?

[StripclubDJ]

Originally Posted by dparm

Unfortunately, I already ordered my Forgelines. Went 18x11 and 18x12.5. Thanks anyway!

But did you order forgelines AND JRZs??

Bro
Lol

[dparm]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Nice. 315/30-18 / 335/30-18?

- Ryan

Yes sir. g-Force Rival S. Once I can have a better logistical operation, I'll probably make these my track wheels and switch to Hoosiers or take-offs.

Originally Posted by jktx

Is the M driving course worth going to? Got the voucher for the one day course but would probably try to see if I can upgrade to at least two days. If worth it then which one - Thermal or Spartanburg?

My understanding is that if you have done some track stuff, you'll find it pretty rudimentary. It's designed for absolute beginners. At the very least, you'll be able to go hoon someone else's car.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by jktx

Is the M driving course worth going to? Got the voucher for the one day course but would probably try to see if I can upgrade to at least two days. If worth it then which one - Thermal or Spartanburg?

I've been to both facilities.

In 2010, before I ever did ANY kind of Motorport activity of ANY kind, I attended 1-day M-School in Spartanburg. It was the first time in my life I ever did motorsport-type things with a car.

Around 2016, after we leased a BMW, the dealership extended an offer for a free M-Style school day at the still-being-built BMW Thermal facility. (It wasn't as hard-structured as the official M-School day and there were more people.) The BMW Thermal facility's pavement had been installed, but the buildings weren't built yet. By the time I took this class, I had a lot of track experience.

Both were good experiences, but for different reasons. The Spartanburg experience was a total eye-opener because I had never done track stuff before. Hitting the wet skid pad for the first time was insane for me. I had no clue about counter-steering. I learned a LOT that day because I was a complete novice. The Thermal experience was good because I simply had a lot of fun and I was able to mash around in an M4, but I didn't learn much new stuff that day because the day was geared more towards novices and I had 100 track days under my belt by that time.

My question to you is: how much track experience do you have?

If you are a track novice and have never had instruction, then I think M-School can give you good solid foundations for motorsport driving. The BMW instructors are legit.

If you do have a fair amount of track experience, then 1-day M-School will have less impact on you. Of course, there's always stuff to learn; hitting a wet skid pad is always valuable. But if you have the basics of motorsport down, M-School might start a bit too far behind where your skill level is. Maybe if you do the 2-day course, there's more to gain on day 2. But it sounds like you'd have to pay to upgrade to the 2-day.

Both facilities are nice, although they each have their own character. (I do like the dedicated wet skid pad ring in South Carolina. Man, I was sliding off that ring like an idiot into the grass. But I finally started to get it. At Thermal, they only have a large concrete area that is wetted down.) Summer is DEADLY hot at Thermal----like 120ºF. But it's guaranteed to be dry once late-Spring rolls around, so no rain worries. In Spartanburg, it can rain at any time (and did when I was there), but temps aren't nearly as high in the summer. In Spartanburg, you are near the BMW assembly plants. I hear the tours are pretty interesting. If you're into that, then Spartanburg is for you. Spartanburg is a fine town. There's not much to Thermal, CA, but Palm Springs/Palm Desert isn't out of reach if you have a rental car, and there's all kinds of great dining there. Also, seeing Thermal Club is interesting. It's not everyday that you happen upon a hyper-exclusive country club for motorsport.

So, if you're novice, then I say go for it. But if you've got the basics of motorsport down and have a decent amount of time on track, I would say that you might benefit more by hiring a quality coach for a day or two to coach you in YOUR car at a track that is meaningful to you. If you can find a coach that knows your car platform, knows the track you're at, and can bring data/video analysis to the table, and can maybe even help you tune the setup of your car with things like suspension settings or aero, and this coach focuses on you and your driving for 1 or 2 days, I think you would gain far more from that than an M-School. Once you factor in plane tickets, hotel stays, rental car, food and cost of upgrading to 2-day M-School, even if a private instructor was $1000/day, you could still justify the cost of the private instruction compared to the M-School trip.

[e92BMW///M3]

Originally Posted by jktx

Is the M driving course worth going to? Got the voucher for the one day course but would probably try to see if I can upgrade to at least two days. If worth it then which one - Thermal or Spartanburg?

Its a good time, but if you are experienced you likely will be underwhelmed as was mentioned. As someone who had only done a handful of AutoX before doing the one in SC, I found it enjoyable. Also, for it being a full day (in most cases) the lapping portion is probably only 20 minutes or so and the rest of the time is spent on other drills (skid pad, short track / autoX, etc.)

[kyippee]

Does the E90 M3 CRT front lip have any meaningful benefits? Seems like a cool uncommon lip to run. I'm guessing it has some small effect but not as good as GTS or GT4 lip?

[XCUSE_M3]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Dogbone gave some great feedback. Although mounting 305 track/race compounds on an 18x11" square wheel configuration is marginally superior in the right drivers hands, it will take some trial and error up front to prevent contact under suspension compression. You are simply running out of real estate under the front fenders. Running a short 5" linear spring to get the lower spring perch as high as possible (so it sits above the tire rather than next to it) without sabotaging your ride height in combination with a healthy amount of negative camber is necessary for starters, and although this setup is feasible, an 18x10.5" ET22 provides enough sidewall support for 295 and 305 tires and is much easier to work with.

We specifically lowered our 10.5" wheel offsets to ET22 (from ET27) to ensure E9X M3 owners had the opportunity to run a 10.5" rotatable square setup without the need for spacers. If you are using 10.5" wheels with a higher offset, strong chance you will need small spacers to clear your struts. Our two newer wheel designs (SM-10 & FL-5) are available in these specifications. 18x10.5" is also a very popular rear wheel specification for enthusiast running staggered fitments, and the lower ET22 offset results in a more flush fitment (again, so spacers aren't needed).

18x10.5" ET22 with 295/30-18 Yokohama A052's is the perfect upgrade from the common 18x10" ET25 with 275/35-18 NT01 setup. Once you have plateaued on the Yokos, you can upgrade to a wider compound without worrying about spending more on wheels.

- Ryan

Out of curiosity do you know if the A052's are any faster then the RE-71's???

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by StripclubDJ

But did you order forgelines AND JRZs??

Bro
Lol

Is that a fucking brake caliper reused as a control arm? Lol

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Does the E90 M3 CRT front lip have any meaningful benefits? Seems like a cool uncommon lip to run. I'm guessing it has some small effect but not as good as GTS or GT4 lip?

Worthless for us lol

[roastbeef]

Yea did you get rid of the leafs up front? How much different does it feel?

[StripclubDJ]

no in that pic the upper A arm is still off lololol


No more leafs front and rear
I'm still doing setup on the car so I will know here soon how the JRZ stack up to the stock mag ride

[dparm]

Originally Posted by StripclubDJ

no in that pic the upper A arm is still off lololol


No more leafs front and rear
I'm still doing setup on the car so I will know here soon how the JRZ stack up to the stock mag ride

Did you get the 2019 mag ride update? Huge improvement in ride quality.