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      12-29-2018, 10:12 AM   #45
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As interesting as it is, this project sounds like a money laundering scheme.
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      01-02-2019, 12:46 PM   #46
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I'm actually interested in this. I've been contemplating a stroker crank anyways, considering I want to do my Rod Bearings Soon, along with the mains... If i'm going to pull this damn thing out... I might as well throw a proper stroker crank in there and adjust everything properly...
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      01-02-2019, 01:51 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-los View Post
I'm actually interested in this. I've been contemplating a stroker crank anyways, considering I want to do my Rod Bearings Soon, along with the mains... If i'm going to pull this damn thing out... I might as well throw a proper stroker crank in there and adjust everything properly...
Eh, it wouldn't be just a crankshaft.

Unlimited budget race teams do these all the time but for a "private citizen" to pull this off will be pretty epic. Jim is anything but an average engine nut and he's still having VanDyne do much of the heavy lifting...
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      01-02-2019, 02:25 PM   #48
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Makes sense, especially with the firing order change.
I guess i can always wish no? :lol
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      01-04-2019, 10:54 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-los View Post
Makes sense, especially with the firing order change.
I guess i can always wish no? :lol
Just buy a nice sorted stroker from one of the reputable vendors!!!

-Pull your engine
-Send your core
-Wait (beer helps, I have been told)
-Receive gods own engine (crack a beer, take a selfie)
-Install gods own engine (crack another beer, take another selfie)
-Drive (try not to giggle continuously like a 12 year old)

Unless life throws something silly my way, I fully plan on doing exactly this at some point. A 4.6L stroker, properly built with all the goodies. NA all the way.

As for the OP - this project is pure awesomeness. Love it.
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      01-04-2019, 01:22 PM   #50
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OH Don't worry Scharbag, I plan to do just that. Proper 4.4L crank (don't wanna deal with sleeves and such), Probably throw a proper set of Rods since i'm in there, Use O.E. Pistons (unless i decide to supercharge... i'm really looking into harrop but i'd love to see a stage 2 setup, then i'd do lower comp pistons...) re-clearance everything, bam. Maybe toss a set of cams just cause it's all out.

Sadly a some nasty stuff came up on me, which made me miss the Karbonius group buy. I'll have to find one later if i stay N/A...
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      01-04-2019, 01:39 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-los View Post
OH Don't worry Scharbag, I plan to do just that. Proper 4.4L crank (don't wanna deal with sleeves and such), Probably throw a proper set of Rods since i'm in there, Use O.E. Pistons (unless i decide to supercharge... i'm really looking into harrop but i'd love to see a stage 2 setup, then i'd do lower comp pistons...) re-clearance everything, bam. Maybe toss a set of cams just cause it's all out.
It's so easy a caveman can do it!

Check out some stroker build threads if you want to pursue. Custom rods and pistons are a requirement. You can't change the stroke without them. And you don't need sleeves either. Most 4.6 S65's run on stock blocks bored to 94mm, most builders will suggest that over sleeves anyway.
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      01-04-2019, 01:49 PM   #52
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The rods i knew about.. i assumed the pistons would be unchanged? (for easier production) But, if i need those, then i need those... haha

now that i think about, it makes sense to need to change the wrist pin location, considering the geometry changes.

Last edited by C-los; 01-04-2019 at 01:55 PM..
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      01-04-2019, 02:14 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
It's so easy a caveman can do it!

Check out some stroker build threads if you want to pursue. Custom rods and pistons are a requirement. You can't change the stroke without them. And you don't need sleeves either. Most 4.6 S65's run on stock blocks bored to 94mm, most builders will suggest that over sleeves anyway.
You *can* change stroke with stock length rods, I have on 1 S85 I've built, and one of the two other's I'm waiting on parts still, but for god's sake, don't use OEM rods.

Most limit the stroke increase to 83mm though on stock length rods though as going beyond 93mm requires either using smaller diameters wrist pins (not desirable) or using wrist pin buttons on the piston due to moving the wrist pin location up into the piston far enough it invades the oil control ring groove. See below for what I mean:

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It's more a matter of what you are ok with for rod length/stroke ratio. It's cheaper to use stock length rods anyway, since they are usually an off the shelf item.

The real trick with a 94mm bore is going to be sealing between cylinders. I'd love to see pictures of an S65 block deck with 94mm bore after 20-30k miles. I'm betting you'll see signs of inter-cylinder blow-by.

On the same note, I'd like to see a sleeved S65 or S85 with over 60k miles on it. IMO, sleeving these is a solution for a problem that hasn't been identified yet.
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      01-04-2019, 02:19 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
The real trick with a 94mm bore is going to be sealing between cylinders. I'd love to see pictures of an S65 block deck with 94mm bore after 20-30k miles. I'm betting you'll see signs of inter-cylinder blow-by.
94mm bore --> 4.6L?

(assume GTS stroke)
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      01-04-2019, 02:25 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
You *can* change stroke with stock length rods, I have on 1 S85 I've built, and one of the two other's I'm waiting on parts still, but for god's sake, don't use OEM rods.

The real trick with a 94mm bore is going to be sealing between cylinders. I'd love to see pictures of an S65 block deck with 94mm bore after 20-30k miles. I'm betting you'll see signs of inter-cylinder blow-by.

On the same note, I'd like to see a sleeved S65 or S85 with over 60k miles on it. IMO, sleeving these is a solution for a problem that hasn't been identified yet.
I really should do better at taking pictures of things that come through the shop...it's great evidence...

94mm bores in stock blocks seem to seal fine according to the engines that I've had come through our shop. I've also got a sleeved S65 here that blew a hole in the side of the block after 25k miles. Neither solution is probably ideal but I've seen more bored S65's still living than sleeved engines. Never seen a sleeved engine reported alive after that kind of 50k+ mileage

And yeah, you certainly *can* do a lot of things you shouldn't...
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      01-04-2019, 02:30 PM   #56
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Impressive Engineering.
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      01-04-2019, 02:31 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
94mm bore --> 4.6L?

(assume GTS stroke)
Yes or any other stroke. I've seen some engines pushed to 94.5mm which is beyond my comfort zone even on an N/A motor. The one I'm building up now is 94mm N/A non-NOS and I don't really even like that. IMO, not enough benefit going beyond 92.5 in most cases. You really need to oversize from 92mm to get into clean Alusil to hone/expose properly, if you ever look at a disassembled S65 or S85, you'll note the cylinder wall roughness is not the same all the way down. The OEM blocks are honed smooth all they way down, but the Alusil exposure process is only done to the depth of the skirt's max travel, not all the way down. This leaves a rougher surface finish at the upper portion (desirable) and near mirror at the bottom. This makes a losing proposition out of re-exposing the Alusil in the upper area for an increased stroke.

The other two motors I'm doing are both 92.5mm, but I have an S65 block with a spun main bearing that is going to be a science project block. Decking the bedplate and lower block, line bore/hone, recut sealant channel and then aiming for cylinder bores around 92.2mm. There's a minimum amount that needs to be bored/honed to get into fresh Alusil and my goal is to find out how little I can make that happen.

Last edited by jcolley; 01-04-2019 at 03:31 PM.. Reason: I can haz bad gramamar
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      01-04-2019, 03:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
Yes or any other stroke. I've seen some engines pushed to 94.5mm which is beyond my comfort zone even on an N/A motor. The one I'm building up now is 94mm N/A non-NOS and I don't really even like that. IMO, not enough benefit going beyond 92.5 in most cases. You really need to oversize from 92mm to get into clean Alusil to hone/expose properly, if you ever look at a disassembled S65 or S85, you'll note the cylinder wall roughness is not the same all the way down. The OEM blocks are honed smooth all they way down, but the Alusil exposure process is only done to the depth of the skirt's max travel, not all the way down. This leaves a rougher surface finish at the upper portion (desirable) and near mirror at the bottom. This makes a losing proposition out of re-exposing the Alusil in the upper area for an increased stroke.

The other two motors I'm doing are both 92.5mm, but I have an S65 block with a spun main bearing that is going to be a science project block. Decking the bedplace and lower block, line bore/hone, recut sealant channel and then aiming for cylinder bores around 92.2mm. There's a minimum amount that needs to be bored/honed to get into fresh Alusil and my goal is to find out how little I can make that happen.
NERD!!

Is it wrong that this stuff excites me?

I am a strange man.
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      01-05-2019, 01:44 PM   #59
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Did they ever Dyno the engine?
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      03-13-2019, 08:17 PM   #60
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Updates and more pictures are coming. The crank is installed, and the bedplate sealed. In the next few couple of weeks, the pistons will get dropped in. The entire valve train is sorted out and necessary parts already acquired.

Two people have signed up to build their own flat-plane projects. The price on flat-plane cams goes down about $300-$400 if Bert can find a third person willing to build. If interested, contact Bert at BE Bearings.

I'll see if I can get pictures posted soon. Bert's pretty slow at getting me the latest photos. :-(
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      03-14-2019, 11:23 PM   #61
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I'm definitely interested in hearing potential pricing if you guys are considering doing these builds and tuning for customers after everything is ironed out.
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      03-15-2019, 11:13 AM   #62
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Awesome to see. I’ve had this idea in the back of my mind for a few years now but definitely don’t have the funds for such a project.

I wonder how difficult it would be to get the Motorsport bed plate with provisions for factory dry sump.

Jealously level is at 11.
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      03-15-2019, 11:14 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StripclubDJ View Post
The main question , we ALL have....







Which rod bearings are best for this
Wpc,vac,or BE.




Lmao
Jk
Nice work
What oil should I use in this engine?
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      04-29-2019, 11:58 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green-Eggs View Post
Updates and more pictures are coming. The crank is installed, and the bedplate sealed. In the next few couple of weeks, the pistons will get dropped in. The entire valve train is sorted out and necessary parts already acquired.

Two people have signed up to build their own flat-plane projects. The price on flat-plane cams goes down about $300-$400 if Bert can find a third person willing to build. If interested, contact Bert at BE Bearings.

I'll see if I can get pictures posted soon. Bert's pretty slow at getting me the latest photos. :-(
Any update on this engine?
.
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      05-07-2019, 11:16 AM   #65
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Subscribing to this thread! Thought of selling the DCT M3 but this is just woah!! Haha
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      05-08-2019, 10:12 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Any update on this engine?
.
I know the bottom end is complete. I will ask Bert for an update and the latest pics.
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