Help!: Lease takeover nightmare! M3 requires repairs but BMW will not cover them.

[ricerlol]

@anom3 My SA told me to get a tune and said it would not void warranty. I (still) trust him and I believe he will admit that he recommended getting a tune if it comes down to it. I also have it in digital writing (PM).

[geneatals]

Originally Posted by ricerlol

@geneatals No, BMW did not do an inspection which I thought was strange. This is the first time I have done a lease takeover and thought they would have wanted to take a look before the car changed hands. I think I dropped the ball there in not covering myself by requesting an examination.

the inspecition should have been done between you and the previous owner..all BMW does is the credit check and transfer...

do you know if the SA and McKenna flagged your VIN? if not, you might have a chance to bring your car into another dealership, but you need to bring everything back to stock...

Some SAs are cool and won't flag your VIN for warranty denials

[ricerlol]

@geneatals I'm really not sure if he did or didn't flag the vehicle. Based on this thread, I'll be going back to stock ASAP. Also, McKenna has not in anyway said that modifications were the cause of the damage.

[Limey]

A few $100 in legal advice to know your rights could save you thousands in liability, potential downtime,brain damage, and also a permanent loss of resale value. Failing to plan is planning to fail.

[stevelp99]

I don't know specifically if there is a code for bent valves, it would have to be verified visually, but if its bent you may be able to hear a ticking noise as the valve is not longer seating flush against the head. One of the codes I would imagine could be thrown would be the O2 if it was sensing excess unburnt gas in the exhaust which could cause the computer to start cutting fuel to the point of shutting down cylinders and causing limp mode. If the valve hit the cylinder head you could have cylinder damage, but seeing as you prob didn't hear bits of metal bounding around, I somehow doubt the cylinder is damaged.

Do you know all the codes you threw. I would think there would be more than just misfire and O2 sensor codes to indicate valve issue, like air flow and camshaft, throttle control valve, codes. Though all those codes could easily indicate other issues.

When was the last time spark plugs and coil packs were changed. Something as simple as spark plugs, bad fuel injector, or a vacuum leak could cause misfires and limp mode.

[ricerlol]

@stevelp99 tom@eas tried swapping the coil packs and spark plugs when they flashed the tune.

[slowandfurious]

did the previous owner have a tune? How would the engine overrev with an automatic??????????? and do you hear any unusual mechanical sounds? i would think a bent valve would make some noise.

[Honda]

Do you have a proof that the SA telling you to get a tune? You better have because it might backfire at you if BMW NA or even dealership wants to perform any work under warranty

[ricerlol]

@slowandfurious I do not believe the previous lessee had a tune, he had a Remus sport exhaust, a lip, and a a rear diffuser. The car was really loud in limp mode, I don't think I heard any *new* mechanical sounds though.

@S65-M3 Yes, I do. But it is in the form of a PM.

[ricerlol]

@Limey I will definitely be seeking legal counsel on this matter, just want to hear if the community has any advice.

[Long_Wang]

Originally Posted by Limey

A few $100 in legal advice to know your rights could save you thousands in liability, potential downtime,brain damage, and also a permanent loss of resale value. Failing to plan is planning to fail.

Couldn't agree more.

Just do this and get the car back to a semi if not full stock condition if possible and take it to another dealership. Don't tell the original dealership that, they likely WANT the work just let them know you'll bring it back. Try the next one, see if its flagged or if maybe they were trying to hose you for some extra work (pretty typical practice with a certain dealership here in Chicago actually).

You'll get another opinion and if it comes back with the same diagnosis, you have a slim chance the car wasn't flagged and you'll get warrantied repairs. If not, you wasted a few days and know you tried. Get the lawyers on top of it and hopefully you have a compelling enough case that you can make BMW prove you owned the car when the over revving occurred.

[mrMTB]

Originally Posted by ricerlol

mrMTB Can you elaborate on why you think I should be responsible for the repair? Also, why would 7800 be considered an "over-rev" if the car is designed to rev up to ~8400? That seems a little strange.

Given the indications of abuse (over-rev codes, broken seal on the ECU), I think BMW will decline to cover this under warranty on the grounds that the damage was user-inflicted rather than a warrantable defect. As others have mentioned, if you can return to stock and potentially get another dealer to get your repair warrantied, that's great. Your other course of action is with the dealer whose SA recommended you get a tune to fix the MIL errors with the catless x-pipe. It's worth appealing to the service manager to push for a goodwill with BMW US, or alternately have the dealership cover some portion of the repair order, though the tampering with the seals on the ECU might make that a moot point.

I don't, per se, understand the logic of flagging "over-rev" beyond 7800 RPM, but that's what the code in the DME is looking for. It's neither here nor there unless it actually records the max RPM achieved. Additionally if your tune modifies the rev limiter, that will show up in their scan.

Do put the car back to stock, if for no other reason to make things easier for whomever does the repairs to isolate variables while troubleshooting. Find an attorney competent in these matters. Turn on the charm and appeal to the dealer to go to bat for you. Name and shame the bastard who traded you this abused car. And next time NEVER acquire an M car without a PPI.

[geneatals]

Originally Posted by mrMTB

Given the indications of abuse (over-rev codes, broken seal on the ECU), I think BMW will decline to cover this under warranty on the grounds that the damage was user-inflicted rather than a warrantable defect. As others have mentioned, if you can return to stock and potentially get another dealer to get your repair warrantied, that's great. Your other course of action is with the dealer whose SA recommended you get a tune to fix the MIL errors with the catless x-pipe. It's worth appealing to the service manager to push for a goodwill with BMW US, or alternately have the dealership cover some portion of the repair order, though the tampering with the seals on the ECU might make that a moot point.

I don't, per se, understand the logic of flagging "over-rev" beyond 7800 RPM, but that's what the code in the DME is looking for. It's neither here nor there unless it actually records the max RPM achieved. Additionally if your tune modifies the rev limiter, that will show up in their scan.

Do put the car back to stock, if for no other reason to make things easier for whomever does the repairs to isolate variables while troubleshooting. Find an attorney competent in these matters. Turn on the charm and appeal to the dealer to go to bat for you. Name and shame the bastard who traded you this abused car. And next time NEVER acquire an M car without a PPI.

^this </end thread

[mjposner]

Is the over reving possibly a cold car being pushed to redline? I would ask for a written, specific basis for the denial of the warranty claim and if it is all pegged on the previous owner, I would have your lawyer make a demand on the seller for failing to disclose a material fact (tampering) and demand they either cover the repair cost or take the car back. I would also complaint to BMW and BMW Financial.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ricerlol

mrMTB Can you elaborate on why you think I should be responsible for the repair? Also, why would 7800 be considered an "over-rev" if the car is designed to rev up to ~8400? That seems a little strange.

I don't think that is the correct figure for the S65 as nobody has yet published the source code. The 7800rpm figure is for the E46 M3, S54, and he probably got that value from a post I did sometime back. Years ago when the S54s were blowing up around the country and BMW was blaming customers (prior to admitting it was a bearing issue), Jim Conforti published the E46 DME source code since BMW was standing behind the "over-rev" claim in contests with customers over blown engines. Turns out that on the E46 an "over-rev recording" is any instance of rpms over 7800 even though the redline is 8000, and it also records the total time spent over 7800 in addition to peak rpm ever reached.

AFAIK, nobody has published exactly what is recorded for the S65...yet.

As far as BMW saying a DCT car can be over-reved, and it's the customer's fault? Bizarre?

Regards,
Chuck

[mrMTB]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I don't think that is the correct figure for the S65 as nobody has yet published the source code. The 7800rpm figure is for the E46 M3, S54, and he probably got that value from a post I did sometime back. Years ago when the S54s were blowing up around the country and BMW was blaming customers (prior to admitting it was a bearing issue), Jim Conforti published the E46 DME source code since BMW was standing behind the "over-rev" claim in contests with customers over blown engines. Turns out that on the E46 an "over-rev recording" is any instance of rpms over 7800 even though the redline is 8000, and it also records the total time spent over 7800 in addition to peak rpm ever reached.

AFAIK, nobody has published exactly what is recorded for the S65...yet.

Thanks for the correction, Chuck. It had been a while since I'd read that, and was relying on memory for that part.

[rcracin]

Makes no sense to diagnose bent valves based on codes. You also don't need the motor stripped down. What you do need is a compression and leakdown test in order to determine the health of the motor.

So many hackjob bullshit ass mechanics out there, even at the dealer. Go to a proper shop to get those tests done to see if you have any problems with the actual motor.

[8600RPM]

This is silly. Ypu had a catless exhaust. It through a o2 emissions code as expected.

Engine won't run with bent valves.

Your car is fine I'm sure

[0_to_60]

First mistake was taking to Mckenna. I would take it to a trusted mechanic shop and let them rediagnose the issue. Hopefully, the stealership diagnosed it wrong. If it all fails, you have 2 months to get rid

[JoePcone]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

This is silly. Ypu had a catless exhaust. It through a o2 emissions code as expected.

Engine won't run with bent valves.

Your car is fine I'm sure

This guy is exactly right and I'm loving the irony of your username for this thread.

[mrMTB]

The other thing that occurs to me is what will this person's lease-return look like? If the vehicle has evidence of abuse, will they consider that "damage" for the return process and require that he pay for them to fix it to their satisfaction?

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by jrs_66

So you tampered with the ECU, put on a non street legal exhaust, got engine problems and think the warranty is still applicable? Hmmm...

i've never heard of a boxed tune and cat delete exhaust bend valves, have you?
do mods hurt your warranty, yup. should they, no (except maybe forced induction or increased redlines).